Our Current Progress

[benpoke103]

I think it's time I let you guys know what's been going on with 2k1, and how we are progressing.

Stefan was kindly nice enough to provide us a couple of backups which we were able to restore the server to a period of time where we are able to get it to a point where we felt was most workable. A lot is not necessarily "broken", just some old GS1 scripts need to be converted to GS2 standards as well as repaired. So far, it's been rather slow for multiple reasons, mostly members of the GDT not being as available as I'd hope they would be, but progress is still being made. It took a while to sort through all the backups and figure out which content was worth salvaging, fixing, replacing, etc. The server itself is in okay shape, some things still need to be fixed which are pretty minor and don't require TOO much work.

At this point, as soon as Skyld, HR, the other members of the GDT, and myself assemble for a meeting of sorts to discuss 2k1's potential future, we will be looking for individuals to help assist us in bringing 2k1 back to a fully-working state as well as develop new content.

We are looking for some feedback, however. Some people have suggested to us that we should switch from the custom bodies, to the regular ones. This is still plausible but would cause a huge setback and a lot of unnecessary re-development, but if that's what a majority wants, we will consider it. The main issue with that is we would have to basically re-create many, many ganis, develop a new movement/combat system for humans, and more. Also, Skyld feels that the custom bodies and interaction were one of the main reasons 2k1 gave the experience it did.

We are also looking for ways and ideas to make Bomys a little more balanced with humans, and we could use some ideas for that as well, whether it be more ways to attack, allowing diagonal movement, more health, anything you can think of.

Bottom line, I want to see 2k1 back online as much as you guys do, Skyld and Inverness feel the same way, and we don't want to let you down. Time and availability of our members have become a hamper in the ways of reorganizing everything, but I'm personally trying to do the best I can for the interests of Graal as a whole. If we were to just flat out fix everything that needs to be fixed, sure, we could hypothetically just re-release 2k1 and call it a day, but I want to go beyond that.

I would love to hear anyone's comments/suggestions regarding any matter related to the server and I may not respond to each one, but I will definitely read everything that gets posted here. If anyone also feels they would like to contribute to the project, please let me know. Mostly, we are looking for people with GScript 1 and 2 experience who would help us port code over, or fix half-working GS1 scripts, which are no longer compatible. Individuals skilled in levels would also be great to have, so we can begin developing new content such as quests and even more money making jobs.

To fulfill your nostalgia purposes, I'll be happy to let you know that testing/fooling around with Draisines, the train, Bread Baking, and the fish quest are just as fun today as they were when they were first released. I know it might sound cheesy to say, but for Skyld and myself, it's definitely very moving that we're able to work with the server, and it feels great to see everything working again, memories pouring back and whatnot, and we want to share that with you.

We are motivated, but we are certainly in no rush. Even though some may feel our efforts are futile, I think otherwise. I'm personally doing this because I think it's fun, and I want to enjoy the server again with the new wave of Graalians who have come by whether from iPhone or just discovering Graal randomly, as well as the oldbies still lingering around. Who knows, maybe even perhaps some familiar faces will drop by and say, "Hey!" In the end, I will have no regrets for being given the opportunity to get 2k1 back on its feet.

Sorry for the really long post and wall-o-text this has brought, but I feel we owe you some sort of explanation by now as to what is going on. Please, feel free to ask anything you want and give us some feedback, we could use it!

[DeCeaseD]

When you say backups exactly how far back are you guys going? Seemingly far since you're talking about codes being in gs1? But in either case I'm more curious as to whether its far enough back that you guys are scratching out any of the work konidias started? Or even Rufus? (Especially the bodies which would be plain stupid since they are like one of the most defining factors on the server.)

[benpoke103]

The backup is a quasi-mix between 2006 levels and scripts from around 2004. We still have some newer version of the scripts that were left on the server but there was a lot to clean up.

[Crono]

will anything from bomy island be used? if not, why not?

[DeCeaseD]

Originally Posted by Crono

will anything from bomy island be used? if not, why not?

This ^ bomy island was a way better version of 2k1 than any older version.

[fowlplay4]

Originally Posted by Crono

will anything from bomy island be used? if not, why not?

Well from a script point of view, if it's not saved it's typically because the effort required to make it work (and/or maintain) was far greater than a proper re-script.

Someone who knows more than my casual/dated knowledge from 2001 of the server will have to field the rest of that question.

Anyway I'm on Team Classic Bodies.

[xXziroXx]

Visually it would be reaaaally stupid not to keep all the work Konidias made.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

Visually it would be reaaaally stupid not to keep all the work Konidias made.

I disagree.

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by Rufus

I disagree.

I don't think I've seen a single graphic remake he made that looked worse than the original.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

I don't think I've seen a single graphic remake he made that looked worse than the original.

I have seen many, a lot is incomplete, and there is a lot more left to do. All of the graphics follow a distinct style (dithered to hell, as I like to put it) and while there are some gems, most of it should be remade. To remake remakes is going to be a large job in itself, and probably a huge waste of time.

[Mykel]

Thanks for the update.

I don't see a problem with the "newer" bodies. They functioned well enough, and although they seemed a bit awkward because of us getting used to the classic ones, it probably wouldn't be worth the effort to switch.

Good luck, and let me know what I can do to help!

[fowlplay4]

Originally Posted by Mykel

Good luck, and let me know what I can do to help!

Since the scripting pool is completely saturated for this project, people with talents in levels and graphics should send their "I'd like to help" PMs to benpoke103.

[DeCeaseD]

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

Visually it would be reaaaally stupid not to keep all the work Konidias made.

I personally agree with this as I'm sure many others who have seen as much as I did of the server would also agree. Just because something is dithered that makes it bad.. ? o.O

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by DeCeaseD

I personally agree with this as I'm sure many others who have seen as much as I did of the server would also agree. Just because something is dithered that makes it bad.. ? o.O

Dithered water? GG

[Soala]

Originally Posted by rufus

dithered water? Gg

I lol'd

[DeCeaseD]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Dithered water? GG

Okay gg how.. you've given one example and even with that I gauruntee you if not myself.. someone else could easily do a styled dither to make a good looking water.. so point still not taken.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by DeCeaseD

Okay gg how.. you've given one example and even with that I gauruntee you if not myself.. someone else could easily do a styled dither to make a good looking water.. so point still not taken.

The point is it does look worse than the original, which many of the graphics do. I'm not here to prove anything to you, and I'm not all that interested in going through backups to post comparisons. The staff can either take what I said or ignore it, but they will be stupid to mix styles like that and expect it to present itself as a grand revival. It might do to someone with no idea of standards, someone who is used to seeing crap content (it did to me when I first played on it) but after a while it rubs off.

[DeCeaseD]

Originally Posted by Rufus

The point is it does look worse than the original, which many of the graphics do. I'm not here to prove anything to you, and I'm not all that interested in going through backups to post comparisons. The staff can either take what I said or ignore it, but they will be stupid to mix styles like that and expect it to present itself as a grand revival. It might do to someone with no idea of standards, someone who is used to seeing crap content (it did to me when I first played on it) but after a while it rubs off.

Well I do understand where you're coming from and I also know what you are talking about in reference to alot of the images not being up to par.. but I personally thought as far as the bodies looked and their relation to graal they were rather amazing..

[Soto]

Once you get it in working condition, i say you release as is, and every month push out an update whether it be small or big just to let us know things have not came to a halt

[--Chris--]

Throughout the years I have witnessed many, many posts like this. Some how I feel optimistic about this one It is practical.

Karsh and I were the main gani staff for 2k1 for quite a while. I can tell you from my experience that the "2k1" bodies are a lot easier to work with than the "Classic" alternative, and they provide a platform with more capacity to be creative. I will gladly make such contributions again when I have the time after graduating (from University) in Jan-April!

It would be nice to see the old Kingdoms if the backup had those levels.

I strongly recommend the following:

1) Server has to be free.
2) Needs a manager with an understanding of economics.

[benpoke103]

Originally Posted by --Chris--

Throughout the years I have witnessed many, many posts like this. Some how I feel optimistic about this one It is practical.

Karsh and I were the main gani staff for 2k1 for quite a while. I can tell you from my experience that the "2k1" bodies are a lot easier to work with than the "Classic" alternative, and they provide a platform with more capacity to be creative. I will gladly make such contributions again when I have the time after graduating (from University) in Jan-April!

It would be nice to see the old Kingdoms if the backup had those levels.

I strongly recommend the following:

1) Server has to be free.
2) Needs a manager with an understanding of economics.

I don't see 2k1 becoming Gold again. Microtransactions however..

I think Skyld will probably remain Manager of 2k1, it's his call in the end.

[Brad]

only reason I would want old bodies is the health system. Bomys could fight humans in the old health system. With the new one, humans were able to damage us when we were in in our shell after getting knocked back when being struck. I don't see why you would need to 'fix' anything with bomys in the old health system. I could easily own 95% of humans on the server as a bomy.

[xAndrewx]

oh cool - any screens??

[maximus_asinus]

I am confused, is the plan to recreate a version of 5-7 year old version of the server? Didn't they try this a few times and it fail? I am confused on what changed over the years (especially since you're not using any of Konidas' stuff).

[Cubical]

Do you still plan on using these bodies?
http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...ad.php?t=72457

[maximus_asinus]

the bodies they are talking about are the G2K2/Graal Kingdoms look-a-likes. I get the impression that they're not using any of Konidas work.

[benpoke103]

Originally Posted by maximus_asinus

I am confused, is the plan to recreate a version of 5-7 year old version of the server? Didn't they try this a few times and it fail? I am confused on what changed over the years (especially since you're not using any of Konidas' stuff).

I guess the overall goal everyone seems to want is would be to bring back 2k1, and turn it what it might be like today, so essentially 2k11. How we will approach this is still uncertain, which is why we are looking for input. We're going to do what we can with 2k1, but with reservation in mind. We don't want to spend our time doing extremely daunting tasks if we have room for doubt that our efforts would be wasted.

As far as Konidias' bodies go, no we don't plan to use those. The system that was left on the server was in an extremely complex and unfinished state, and it was pretty painful backing all that up as well. The system itself I think accounted for about 150-200 directories in the backup, lol.

[maximus_asinus]

Well, it looks like a doomed project from where I stand. You don't have a plan outside of "convert a decade old server and do... something". If you want to revive the server, you're going to do what Konidas was in the process of doing; a complete overhaul of the server. He knew that a simple conversion wasn't going to do a damn thing, and you should know better too.

[Darklux]

First of all, gratulations for the already achieved goals and commited work

Yet I wonder:
I renember that there was a G2k1 rework some years ago - that failed terribly. First it had a great response, but the playercount decreased rapidly.

So... what will you offer to make it attractive as an up to date playerworld, attracting players (an object that is becoming less and less frequent) - or will it just be a fully functional memorial ground for former g2k1 players, that can be used to idle by them?

Konidias attempt was interesting, sadly it took off in an too different direction. Do you really think that you can "revive" a playerworld?

[Geno]

use the bodies koni made.

most of the people dont even know how they work. its really cool. if you post some shots that would prob get the majority to agree with them.

Rufus you need to realize this is Graal and it is not going to be perfect.

[ff7chocoboknight]

Re-use everything Eye of the Beholder made.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Geno

use the bodies koni made.

most of the people dont even know how they work. its really cool. if you post some shots that would prob get the majority to agree with them.

Rufus you need to realize this is Graal and it is not going to be perfect.

Standards are good to have. We all know Graal is not perfect, but higher standards result in higher quality. Even though none of us are paid, and work on Graal in our free time, it'd do to have higher standards. I'd rather spend an extra month working on something to achieve what I believe is better, than just release whatever I come up with the first time, just to get it done. That is typically the mindset I have when I work on my stuff for Graal. You should have seen some of the first versions of various things I have worked on. What's sad is most people on Graal would have been happy with them, but I continued and pushed to achieve something better and in the end it was for the best.

Heh, you should have seen the first version of my bomb explosions. rofl

[fowlplay4]

Originally Posted by Geno

use the bodies koni made.

and who's going maintain and continue to add on to those?

Unless we get people who are serious about contributing in the Levels and Graphics department we can only go so far.

[FaLLChiLD]

There was a whole slew of technicolor vanity options already done including tunic, overalls, hairstyles, skin color, shoes, gloves, capes, hats, and such when I was working with Koni like 3 years ago. Half the body customization was there. Why wouldn't you go for it? Those bodies are revolutionary as far as the Graal experience goes...I feel like it's foolish to just toss them to the side.

Not exactly sure where this project is going as we speak but it'd be a huge shame to find out that a lot of the work contributed from the time of Konis management to Rufus' end is being scrapped.

No body wants another dead ass revival bringing back what we have seen every past 5-6 years.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by FaLLChiLD

There was a whole slew of technicolor vanity options already done including tunic, overalls, hairstyles, skin color, shoes, gloves, capes, hats, and such when I was working with Koni like 3 years ago. Half the body customization was there. Why wouldn't you go for it? Those bodies are revolutionary as far as the Graal experience goes...I feel like it's foolish to just toss them to the side.

Not exactly sure where this project is going as we speak but it'd be a huge shame to find out that a lot of the work contributed from the time of Konis management to Rufus' end is being scrapped.

No body wants another dead ass revival bringing back what we have seen every past 5-6 years.

I think the major factor to consider those bodies is that each gani forces you to work with about 25 objects. Good luck finding someone willing to piddle around with 25 objects for every gani that needs to be made.

[Rufus]

If they are to use those bodies, they are going to need some better features implemented (grouping gani objects, recoloring gani sprites, etc) else it is going to become incredibly monotonous and mind-numbing for the staff having to work with them. Big updates like this nearly always call for new ways of doing things, but I have never seen Stefan take an interest in the server.

[--Chris--]

Working with that many objects is actually quite fun. One simple step that helps is copying the previous frame and simply moving the respective object(s) in subsequent ones. It isn't THAT bad...some people prefer this.

[LordMatt]

I wish you luck

[Aknts]

Ive been following this on and off for ever now.. this pretty much seems like it will never come out.

[Geno]

spanky was close to right. its never going come out, i'd bet on it.