Debate: Should N-Pulse Remain on the Classic Tab?

[maximus_asinus]

Honestly I am confused as to why the PWA have allowed N-Pulse to stay on the Classic tab for this long.

Originally Posted by Rufus

N-Pulse should not be on the server list and should be removed until it is actually playable. If it can't get up to that standard it shouldn't return, simple as that. Currently you can't even walk around the main map without it breaking, and players should not be exposed that.

In its current state the server is unplayable. I agree with Rufus, players should not be exposed to stuff like this.

The server has canceled plans on their revival project, Rebirth. Now they're planning to recover an old server backup and rebuild from there. I hardly see how that is fair to other UC servers. They have to build a server on their own dime and get to a point far beyond what N-Pulse is currently at to even reach the Hosted tab, let alone Classic.

I wonder what everyone else thinks. Should N-Pulse be removed from the Classic tab and placed UC? Does it deserve to be where it is now?

[Mark Sir Link]

With Unholy Nation down, I got a chance to go explore N-Pulse and Zodiac again and it seems like one of my previous threads was ignored. If any efforts were made by these two servers to fix these problems, it either wasn't enough or is hidden.

http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...ad.php?t=86404

EDIT:
Wow, was that really over a year ago?

[xXziroXx]

Last time I logged on N-Pulse, I enjoyed exploring the overworld quite a lot. That was before I entered a level that started randomly warping me somewhere else, changing tileset 24/7 (which by the way Zodiac should really fix as well) and generally not having much of anything to do.

I don't think the current N-Pulse meets the Classic requirements.

[cbk1994]

I think it would be much more useful to offer N-Pulse an ultimatum to stay on the tab rather than taking them off immediately. Set out certain requirements for them to remain on the classic tab, such as requiring them to state their plans for NP and their plans for differentiating themselves from UN, and then hold them to a development schedule. If they still do nothing, take them off the tab.

[TSAdmin]

I've brought up N-Pulse in the Global Forum a couple of times. The thing that kept Bell on their side though was the fact Rebirth was apparently "coming along nicely" so it was left at that. With the recent news on Rebirth's production, I figure it's a matter of awaiting Bell's next response on the topic of N-Pulse.

[kia345]

Originally Posted by TSAdmin

The thing that kept Bell on their side though was the fact Rebirth was apparently "coming along nicely" so it was left at that.

So where's Delteria? Their dev server has always been beautiful

[fowlplay4]

itt: Posts not getting deleted by SlikRick.

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

changing tileset 24/7 (which by the way Zodiac should really fix as well)

Did like a month or two ago.

[TheRuckus]

no delete it.

[TSAdmin]

Originally Posted by kia345

So where's Delteria? Their dev server has always been beautiful

To be sure, but there was continually the problem of nobody around to do anything. Looking at the review thread in the Global Forums, the problem was that there was concern Misconception had albeit disappeared which turned out to be true. Misconception had been e-mailed by Bell that MysticalDragon had taken over Dev (Which, since it was on Misconceptions server, was totally up to him to do whatever with) and Riot was put in charge of the main server.

The ultimatum was that if nothing was done about main, they'd be sent to UC until such time as they could pull their weight. A month went by and nothing had happened - Xor moved them to UC as per the agreement. This was almost a year ago and I've yet to hear anything changing.

Slightly off topic as that may be, I can see where you're coming from and it is unlikely the cessation of development of Rebirth will aid in N-Pulses Classic-list survival; However, that is yet to even be discussed within the PWA as this has only recently unfolded. That said, I don't make any promise of N-Pulses removal or continued presence where it is.

[kia345]

Originally Posted by TSAdmin

The ultimatum was that if nothing was done about main, they'd be sent to UC until such time as they could pull their weight

You mean like the rehosting of DST/T, the line up of active/semi-active ETs, the reworking of quests to be made more easily accessible to new players, the minor NPC releases, and updating various events to work with the switch to GS2 to give people a bit to play with while waiting for the dev server?

Because I distinctly remember those things.

[Cloven]

Originally Posted by TSAdmin

To be sure, but there was continually the problem of nobody around to do anything. Looking at the review thread in the Global Forums, the problem was that there was concern Misconception had albeit disappeared which turned out to be true. Misconception had been e-mailed by Bell that MysticalDragon had taken over Dev (Which, since it was on Misconceptions server, was totally up to him to do whatever with) and Riot was put in charge of the main server.

The ultimatum was that if nothing was done about main, they'd be sent to UC until such time as they could pull their weight. A month went by and nothing had happened - Xor moved them to UC as per the agreement. This was almost a year ago and I've yet to hear anything changing.

A lot of these details are rather inaccurate, though MD did 'take over' while Riot and I were away for a couple of weeks (due to real life issues). I have no problem with main being off of the classic list until we're finished, however, and in fact we even requested this prior to it actually occurring. For the record, though, Misconception wasn't around for a very, very long time and simply just submitted dev-server payments after collecting funds from those who have contributed. Myself and Riot have been in control of the server (and were in control of the server) for a rather long time. Tig, Skyld, and Bell were all aware of this which is why there was a bit of hostility when things went down (as nobody made an effort to contact either myself or Riot) before proceeding.

It matters not ultimately, but without typing a novel I just wanted to set a few things straight. For future reference it is important that you guys contact me and/or Riot regarding anything Delteria-in-nature.


Concerning N-Pulse, I'd say they've had more than a fair amount of time (like Delteria) to provide content improvements and/or a re-release and should simply be removed from the classic list as we were (though still remain classic-enabled) until such time that they're able to stand on their own again.

[TSAdmin]

Originally Posted by kia345

You mean like the rehosting of DST/T, the line up of active/semi-active ETs, the reworking of quests to be made more easily accessible to new players, the minor NPC releases, and updating various events to work with the switch to GS2 to give people a bit to play with while waiting for the dev server?

No

[kia345]

Originally Posted by TSAdmin

No

Because that's all servers like UN have to survive on anyway,

If what you're implying is "they should release what they have finished", then the words I would use to describe you guys are probably censored.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by kia345

Because that's all servers like UN have to survive on anyway,

If what you're implying is "they should release what they have finished", then the words I would use to describe you guys are probably censored.

Should N-Pulse remain on the Classic Tab?

[kia345]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Should N-Pulse remain on the Classic Tab?

"N-Pulse should remain on the classic tab for the same reason Delteria was removed"

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by kia345

"N-Pulse should remain on the classic tab for the same reason Delteria was removed"

Yeah, what? Should N-Pulse remain on the Classic Tab?

[kia345]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Yeah, what? Should N-Pulse remain on the Classic Tab?

No, removing Delteria should be the precedent. They have a quality dev server and attempted to bring activity back to the main server and was still removed.

N-Pulse on the other hand has remained relatively out of sight with little attempt to make the main server any different than it was before development re-hauls. It should've been taken down a long time ago if there was any sort of standard in Classic-tab requirements.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by kia345

Yes.

Okay, was just wondering cause of the whole thread subject and everything.

[TSAdmin]

Originally Posted by kia345

No, removing Delteria should be the precedent. They have a quality dev server and attempted to bring activity back to the main server and was still removed.

N-Pulse on the other hand has remained relatively out of sight with little attempt to make the main server any different than it was before development re-hauls. It should've been taken down a long time ago if there was any sort of standard in Classic-tab requirements.

There's no case of double standards when the promise for redemption within both situations differs. Rebirth had more promise for redemption on main than the dev server's existence for Delteria. Simply existing is one thing, moving along the path to redeem the server and showing that progress is being made makes all the difference to buying time. As I have already mentioned before, I am not making any promises about undiscussed topics, but with the fall of Rebirth the chances are high for doing what you're stating - Removing it for the same reason Delteria was.

If you didn't get that from the beginning, perhaps you will now.

[Hiro]

if they're rebirth project has been canceled, as i assumed it would be, then there is no reason for them to stay on the classic tab

hell, graal the adventure (classic, whatever) should have been kept up on the classic tab if a promising development project is all that's required: they have released new content recently, while n-pulse hasn't released anything in months aside from textual expectancies

[TSAdmin]

Originally Posted by Hiro

if they're rebirth project has been canceled, as i assumed it would be, then there is no reason for them to stay on the classic tab

hell, graal the adventure (classic, whatever) should have been kept up on the classic tab if a promising development project is all that's required: they have released new content recently, while n-pulse hasn't released anything in months aside from textual expectancies

Cats and mousse.

...We are moving onto mentioning two things that are dissimilar in topic now, right? Especially considering that Classic wasn't removed simply because of lack of development, which you obviously have yet to read up on.

Edit: Sign your reps, please. Things such as "You do a bad job of making people in your position seem competent" don't really make sense and I'd love to speak further on how sarcasm != ability to perform my duties competently.

[Supaman771]

If it was taken off Classic tab it would never recover. No one would want to work there and the manager probably wouldn't pay to keep it up cause its such a crappy server. Plus then he would lose his powers to delete the posts he can't answer under his own topic and rage quit. Thus they're hoping by keeping it on Classic it might have a chance. QQchachoo

[Bell]

As TSA said, the PWA has not even had the time to discuss the fate of NPulse. I will say this though. I do NOT take removal of servers from Classic tab lightly. We're in a difficult situation as it is trying to get quality, reliable development staff without adding more hardships onto a server.

While I don't recall the details of Delteria's removal I do still firmly support the idea of putting it back on tab once they feel they are ready.

Classic was put on UC by mutual agreement between myself and Thor. There was so much drama surrounding Classic that we both felt that by putting it UC he wouldn't have to worry about player support staffing and could focus on development alone. If I didn't feel that Thor would have the stamina to complete the effort I wouldn't of gone that route in the first place. So far its proven to be a good decision.

I've given Npulse some tools they asked for to help jumpstart their newest efforts and reduce some of the tedium. Thats not to say they won't still have a mountain of work to do but its up to them now to see it through. If they feel that going UC will make their life easier then I would move them immediately but unlike Classic they may not have a small core of dedicated staff to help in this and may not want that invisibility.

There was mention that this whole situation doesn't seem fair to UC servers. Why not? These other servers made their qualifications years ago and just because the playercount of Graal overall has dropped considerably they should not be held entirely to blame if they haven't been able to keep up. When people decided to rent and develop these new servers, they knew what they were in for (or should have) and its their turn to battle their way to the top. We encourage those servers along that are making a true effort at making a decent server but not all are even trying. All they want to do is snag some images and scripts from other servers, slap them together to make some minimum qualifications so they get to play manager.

Bottom line, what happens to NPulse isn't up for a public vote. The PWA will encourage them to keep things on track but don't expect any instant results.

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by Bell

As TSA said, the PWA has not even had the time to discuss the fate of NPulse. I will say this though. I do NOT take removal of servers from Classic tab lightly. We're in a difficult situation as it is trying to get quality, reliable development staff without adding more hardships onto a server.

While I don't recall the details of Delteria's removal I do still firmly support the idea of putting it back on tab once they feel they are ready.

Classic was put on UC by mutual agreement between myself and Thor. There was so much drama surrounding Classic that we both felt that by putting it UC he wouldn't have to worry about player support staffing and could focus on development alone. If I didn't feel that Thor would have the stamina to complete the effort I wouldn't of gone that route in the first place. So far its proven to be a good decision.

I've given Npulse some tools they asked for to help jumpstart their newest efforts and reduce some of the tedium. Thats not to say they won't still have a mountain of work to do but its up to them now to see it through. If they feel that going UC will make their life easier then I would move them immediately but unlike Classic they may not have a small core of dedicated staff to help in this and may not want that invisibility.

There was mention that this whole situation doesn't seem fair to UC servers. Why not? These other servers made their qualifications years ago and just because the playercount of Graal overall has dropped considerably they should not be held entirely to blame if they haven't been able to keep up. When people decided to rent and develop these new servers, they knew what they were in for (or should have) and its their turn to battle their way to the top. We encourage those servers along that are making a true effort at making a decent server but not all are even trying. All they want to do is snag some images and scripts from other servers, slap them together to make some minimum qualifications so they get to play manager.

Bottom line, what happens to NPulse isn't up for a public vote. The PWA will encourage them to keep things on track but don't expect any instant results.

Very well said Bell.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Hiro

hell, graal the adventure (classic, whatever) should have been kept up on the classic tab if a promising development project is all that's required: they have released new content recently, while n-pulse hasn't released anything in months aside from textual expectancies

We decided to remain off the Classic tab with that action initially being taken as an ultimatum by PWA to come up with a definate direction, which it appears Npulse have decided on, we had no intention of maintaining both an up + an Under Construction project which I believe is something Npulse did intend to do, and we haven't released anything playable in the last few months (though something substantial is fairly imminent).

Edit : What Bell said.

[Demisis_P2P]

I thought one of the requirements for a Hosted server to become Classic was that a server needed to have an active dedicated playerbase? This same requirement should logically persist for servers to remain Classic.

N-Pulse in it's current state does not have any active playerbase, and is populated entirely by staff. So it shouldn't remain Classic. Simple as that.

[maximus_asinus]

Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P

I thought one of the requirements for a Hosted server to become Classic was that a server needed to have an active dedicated playerbase? This same requirement should logically persist for servers to remain Classic.

N-Pulse in it's current state does not have any active playerbase, and is populated entirely by staff. So it shouldn't remain Classic. Simple as that.

Yes, I agree. Having a system where you are only required to meet the prerequisites once to reach the Classic tab seems pretty flawed to me. There should be a yearly review at the very least.

[Demisis_P2P]

Originally Posted by maximus_asinus

Yes, I agree. Having a system where you are only required to meet the prerequisites once to reach the Classic tab seems pretty flawed to me. There should be a yearly review at the very least.

N-Pulse has averaged 5 players a day for over the past 6 months. Almost all of which are staff, and at least one of which is an Events Team Admin (for what?).

It's not a playable server. It shouldn't be Classic.

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P

N-Pulse has averaged 5 players a day for over the past 6 months. Almost all of which are staff, and at least one of which is an Events Team Admin (for what?).

It's not a playable server. It shouldn't be Classic.

Trust me If all I did was host events for people who run by than I probably would have stayed out of N-Pulse for about a year and a half by now.

[Clockwork]

I think it should remain...

Stop being butthurt just because you don't play it. It's not hurting anyone, and if it goes off, who believes it will ever actually make it back? Just let it rot naturally in it's place.

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by TSAdmin

Cats and mousse.

...We are moving onto mentioning two things that are dissimilar in topic now, right? Especially considering that Classic wasn't removed simply because of lack of development, which you obviously have yet to read up on.

Edit: Sign your reps, please. Things such as "You do a bad job of making people in your position seem competent" don't really make sense and I'd love to speak further on how sarcasm != ability to perform my duties competently.

for the record, it wasn't me (:

and as for your sarcasm, i used classic as an example, and i don't wish to discuss classic's personal problems. the point is, classic has reliable development and had a stable playercount, and was removed. n-pulse has a non-stable staff (considering how many managers and other staff they go through), and a playercount made entirely of staff (all 5-7 of them) and still hasn't been removed for months. it's not logical, and i didn't need to read the multiple 20 page thread arguments to understand that point, so your negative rep was actually you not realizing the distinct difference to which i drew conclusions from

Originally Posted by Bell

As TSA said, the PWA has not even had the time to discuss the fate of NPulse. I will say this though. I do NOT take removal of servers from Classic tab lightly. We're in a difficult situation as it is trying to get quality, reliable development staff without adding more hardships onto a server.

While I don't recall the details of Delteria's removal I do still firmly support the idea of putting it back on tab once they feel they are ready.

Classic was put on UC by mutual agreement between myself and Thor. There was so much drama surrounding Classic that we both felt that by putting it UC he wouldn't have to worry about player support staffing and could focus on development alone. If I didn't feel that Thor would have the stamina to complete the effort I wouldn't of gone that route in the first place. So far its proven to be a good decision.

I've given Npulse some tools they asked for to help jumpstart their newest efforts and reduce some of the tedium. Thats not to say they won't still have a mountain of work to do but its up to them now to see it through. If they feel that going UC will make their life easier then I would move them immediately but unlike Classic they may not have a small core of dedicated staff to help in this and may not want that invisibility.

There was mention that this whole situation doesn't seem fair to UC servers. Why not? These other servers made their qualifications years ago and just because the playercount of Graal overall has dropped considerably they should not be held entirely to blame if they haven't been able to keep up. When people decided to rent and develop these new servers, they knew what they were in for (or should have) and its their turn to battle their way to the top. We encourage those servers along that are making a true effort at making a decent server but not all are even trying. All they want to do is snag some images and scripts from other servers, slap them together to make some minimum qualifications so they get to play manager.

Bottom line, what happens to NPulse isn't up for a public vote. The PWA will encourage them to keep things on track but don't expect any instant results.

well you're just too cool for graal aren't you. we all know you'll do whatever you want, but that won't stop us from debating the topic, so you don't have to sound so coy in your remarks towards our discussion

and if you wanna play the "they made the effort beforehand" the requirements for classic tab now are much more rigorous than they were back when n-pulse was first put on the classic tab. those UC servers are paying a lot of money to get less than half the support than n-pulse receives for the same project, just because they made it to classic tab back in the day where a quest could consist of pulling a block out and killing a baddie

this isn't to say that n-pulse or any other server is entirely to blame for the drop in playercount - we know who's fault that is. but making them go UC seems plausible given the situation of their main server - it obvious by now that they cannot maintain both, so why even give them the option? hell, move them to hosted tab so they can get some more staff to help them get the server back to a playable state: that still gives them an advantage over the common UC server

but again, this isn't up for public vote. do whatever you please, we all know that it won't get them anywhere, and leaving a dead server on the classic list sure isn't helping graal out

Originally Posted by ffcmike

We decided to remain off the Classic tab with that action initially being taken as an ultimatum by PWA to come up with a definate direction, which it appears Npulse have decided on, we had no intention of maintaining both an up + an Under Construction project which I believe is something Npulse did intend to do, and we haven't released anything playable in the last few months (though something substantial is fairly imminent).

Edit : What Bell said.

and what happens when they cannot seem to maintain that main server? is it really worth keeping their server up just because they asked for it? it could be understandable if they had even 10 active players who were not staff online, but they don't even have that!

and we've at least seen the content you plan to release, while n-pulse has only given us rough percentages. and now that they've gone back to becoming a classic server, they have no answers for how to differentiate themselves from anything UN doesn't already do. their current main server, and any old backup they receive, is essentially a dead UN whose only goal could be to create a schism in UN's playercount

[Bell]

Originally Posted by Hiro

well you're just too cool for graal aren't you. we all know you'll do whatever you want, but that won't stop us from debating the topic, so you don't have to sound so coy in your remarks towards our discussion

I spose I need to reconsider the language I'm using on this thread. I never intended to be coy at all and actually thought I was being pretty blunt. I never actually said you couldn't debate it, I just said that the forum public wouldn't be deciding the fate of NPulse.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Hiro

and we've at least seen the content you plan to release, while n-pulse has only given us rough percentages. and now that they've gone back to becoming a classic server, they have no answers for how to differentiate themselves from anything UN doesn't already do. their current main server, and any old backup they receive, is essentially a dead UN whose only goal could be to create a schism in UN's playercount

I'm only stating the reasons as to why Classic shouldn't be used as a comparison in this case towards justifying whether or not Npulse should remain on the Classic tab, we took what I, my Co-Manager at the time aswell as the majority of Developers felt was our best course of action and I can only give the benefit of the doubt and assume the same is true of Npulse, and it seems PWA has a similar stance towards them.

Whether or not their plan could succeed however is a different issue, I can't say anything about Npulse's past having barely logged onto it, so no bias here, but I don't feel very encouraged by it's supposed new direction, one parallel it does share with Classic is that bringing back a specific set of old levels will not bring back an old community, and while I would like to see them attempt to base their gameplay on a storyline I believe this is best achieved by designing your server towards the storyline as opposed to trying to mesh it into an existing set of levels and Quests.

[kia345]

Originally Posted by Bell

I just said that the forum public wouldn't be deciding the fate of NPulse.

Why do the customers not get input on the servers they are capable of playing?

And in regards to the players with Classic accounts, why do they not get a say in whether the content they paid to access gets removed or not?

The PWA should be eying servers like UN and Zodiac with mediocre development and silly staff circles/constantly rotating management, being quality control and helping nudge the big(ish) playercount servers in the right direction, not picking on heavily developed and anticipated servers.

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by kia345

The PWA should be eying servers like UN and Zodiac with mediocre development and silly staff circles/constantly rotating management, being quality control and helping nudge the big(ish) playercount servers in the right direction, not picking on the heavily developed and anticipated servers like NP.

your so funny.

[sssssssssss]

Originally Posted by kia345

Why do the customers not get input on the servers they are capable of playing?

And in regards to the players with Classic accounts, why do they not get a say in whether the content they paid to access gets removed or not?

Lol, those questions will NEVER be answered...

Besides, I've been in at least 3 debates where, I believe, pwa's and gdt's lightly said we aren't even customers anymore.

[kia345]

Originally Posted by sssssssssss

we aren't even customers anymore.

Volunteer developers deserve even more input.

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by Bell

I spose I need to reconsider the language I'm using on this thread. I never intended to be coy at all and actually thought I was being pretty blunt. I never actually said you couldn't debate it, I just said that the forum public wouldn't be deciding the fate of NPulse.

understandably, i get into this problem a lot (and usually get infractions/-rep for it)

i would like to think that threads like this help towards some level of decision-making by the PWA. i know this isn't true, but at least i can have my dreams ):

after all, it's not like a player with my experience would know anything about graal

[Switch]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

we had no intention of maintaining both an up + an Under Construction project which I believe is something Npulse did intend to do

And thus it's downfall.

[sssssssssss]

Originally Posted by kia345

Volunteer developers deserve even more input.

Oh I'm not saying even our input should be ignored, it shouldn't whatsoever. Especially on an mmo that relies SO MUCH on its 'customers'.

N-Pulse should not be there anymore. As has been said, requirements have changed, so on the standards used now, they don't make it.

If all you have to do is get it classic then not worry, I'd love to make a server and downgrade it to 3 levels, then say its in the works for quite a few years and try to make it kick ass.