Businesses on Era: The Life and Death of a Businessman

[Venom_Fish]

The "smart" part system still retains the problem of mass-produced weapons. It may cost alot more to purchase certain materials, but that just decreases the rate at which guns which use these materals are produced. Players would simply abuse the system by mass-producing weapons which use materials of low-price.
Ex. If I see that metal storm part prices are high one week, and uzi's are extremely low. I'd lay off purchasing metal storm parts, and mass-purchase Uzi parts. (Not saying the two coincide), but if we don't purchase the parts, the prices drop... so it becomes a waiting game. I don't think its logical to count on the patience of players.

Overall the smart part plan is an unnecessary amount of scripting to fix a problem that can easily be solved by limiting the amount of an item produced. Overall limiting the amout of an item on the server, which serves more than one valuable purpose. ex. GPs would know if an item is duped or spawned.

As for Church, that'd be a wasted function for the pawn shop. If they're paying to stock the item, they're gaining anything by buying it for themselves; unless a Metal Storm is their only goal. So they'd be buying it at factory-price, but eh, can't solve every problem.

[salesman]

Instead of limiting the amount that can be sold, set limits on the prices at which they can be sold for. That's the idea behind the pawn shop, and it should be able to apply to player-owned businesses as well. Limiting the number of guns is never a good thing because then players gain control of the prices, and we're back where we started where the only way to get an item is by finding a player that already has it.

Set a minimum and maximum price that they can sell it for, and then allow the pawn shop to buy it back for a price less than the minimum sale price. You then have a clearly defined value (or value range) for the item. This would help ensure that players go to the stores to buy items instead of massing out "Buying _____ for 150k!" because the item will always be worth about the same price.

[Venom_Fish]

Its a proven fact, the more of an item... the less valuable. Realistically and even in-game.
As time goes on, no matter what price the pawn shop says, that weapon's price will drop depending upon how much of it has been produced.

If there are 45 FN2Ks on the server, and the Pawn Shop says 150k, and it cost an arm and a leg to produce. 1. I'm not producing it; 2. I'm not buying it for anything near that.

Thats just a general example. As time goes on, this "minimum and maximum" price will fade away, it shouldn't even take 6 months before then. Only way to have gun-control and to maintain that is by limiting the amount of each item at a respectable point.
If there are 12-15 of a certain item circulating in the economy... whats the point of adding more of that item (meaning permanent/unbreakable items); it'll only depreciate in value.

Setting limitations will not maintain the same price, lol. As you may know, players make their own prices on the streets dependent upon other factors than the NPCs take into account. An Sg552 was 50k or so in that store after it was sold out, 70-90k on streets.
If there had been an unl. amoun being sold, it would've depreciated. Its just how things work.

[Vman13x]

So basically only the rich people can buy shops.

[Tim_Rocks]

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

Its a proven fact, the more of an item... the less valuable. Realistically and even in-game.
As time goes on, no matter what price the pawn shop says, that weapon's price will drop depending upon how much of it has been produced.

If there are 45 FN2Ks on the server, and the Pawn Shop says 150k, and it cost an arm and a leg to produce. 1. I'm not producing it; 2. I'm not buying it for anything near that.

Thats just a general example. As time goes on, this "minimum and maximum" price will fade away, it shouldn't even take 6 months before then. Only way to have gun-control and to maintain that is by limiting the amount of each item at a respectable point.
If there are 12-15 of a certain item circulating in the economy... whats the point of adding more of that item (meaning permanent/unbreakable items); it'll only depreciate in value.

Setting limitations will not maintain the same price, lol. As you may know, players make their own prices on the streets dependent upon other factors than the NPCs take into account. An Sg552 was 50k or so in that store after it was sold out, 70-90k on streets.
If there had been an unl. amoun being sold, it would've depreciated. Its just how things work.

Yes, limiting the guns is the way to go; couldn't of said it better. But why stop there, it should be that the main license has a limit of 12-15 guns that can be released; then you can spend a little more money to increase the limit. The higher you get the limit the more money it's going to cost you to keep increasing it.

Also if there's a certain limit on guns then staff (mainly PRs) would know exactly how many guns are released and can easily find out if a gun has been spawned. I bet something could even be scripted so that there's a search going on that detects how many items there are of each gun and if the number of guns gets bigger than the limit then we would know if a gun has been glitched/spawned/dupped. [I hope I'm not repeating this one]

Originally Posted by Vman13x

So basically only the rich people can buy shops.

True; that or get a bunch of friends to put their money together with a trustworthy leader as their owner. That's what I would probably do if I was going to buy one of these businesses (I would be owner).

[Vman13x]

Hmm a nice idea Tim, but wouldn't that involve staff incase a scam took place? If so it's a hassle

[salesman]

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

Its a proven fact, the more of an item... the less valuable. Realistically and even in-game.
As time goes on, no matter what price the pawn shop says, that weapon's price will drop depending upon how much of it has been produced.

Wrong. While value is almost always dependent on availability, the pawn shop's price for an item will always be the minimum price, regardless of how many have been produced.

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

If there are 45 FN2Ks on the server, and the Pawn Shop says 150k, and it cost an arm and a leg to produce. 1. I'm not producing it; 2. I'm not buying it for anything near that.

Maybe you wouldn't, but if someone wanted an FN2k, they really wouldn't have another choice.

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

Thats just a general example. As time goes on, this "minimum and maximum" price will fade away, it shouldn't even take 6 months before then. Only way to have gun-control and to maintain that is by limiting the amount of each item at a respectable point.
If there are 12-15 of a certain item circulating in the economy... whats the point of adding more of that item (meaning permanent/unbreakable items); it'll only depreciate in value.

Entirely incorrect. The current state era is in should be more than enough evidence to verify that limiting weapons makes prices completely unstable because players can basically give them whatever price they want.

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

Setting limitations will not maintain the same price, lol. As you may know, players make their own prices on the streets dependent upon other factors than the NPCs take into account. An Sg552 was 50k or so in that store after it was sold out, 70-90k on streets.
If there had been an unl. amoun being sold, it would've depreciated. Its just how things work.

You clearly don't understand what I'm trying to say, so I'll try to make it as simple as possible for you. Unless someone is really trying to screw themselves over, they will not sell a gun for less than they can get for it at the pawn shop, and they will not buy a gun for more than what they would have to pay at a store. It doesn't matter how many are in the economy, the prices will remain relatively static within that price range.

Would you sell an SG552 for 45k when you can get 50k from the pawnshop? No. Would you buy an SG552 for 100k when you can buy it from John's store for 60k? No.

If an item is mass-released, its "street value" will obviously drop, but it will never go below the price that the pawn shop will buy it back for. By that point, how much players are willing to spend on it just comes down to convenience -- is it easier to buy it from a shop and spend an extra 5k or find a player? Eventually, the price might go back up due to people selling them back to the pawn shop or going inactive (reducing availability), but the street value will never be more than the maximum price that shops can sell it for. Unless in extreme cases where someone wants to screw themselves over like I already mentioned

[Venom_Fish]

Originally Posted by salesman

Wrong. While value is almost always dependent on availability, the pawn shop's price for an item will always be the minimum price, regardless of how many have been produced.

I'll use your test-pawn shop as an example. Every weapon in the pawn shop currently is selling for less than its pawn shop value.

Sg556 (Unknown due to no one even having one, mostlikely all sold it back).
Colt6 (5,000-6,000$) - 7,500$ in pawn shop.
Osiris (85,000$) - 100,000$ in Pawn Shop.
Neo Rifle (70,000-75000$) - 85,000$ in Pawn Shop.
"Berettas" (3,000$) - 4,000$ in Pawn Shop.
Ivories (15,000 -17000$) - 18,000$ in Pawn Shop.

Takes care of that point.

Originally Posted by salesman

The current state era is in should be more than enough evidence to verify that limiting weapons makes prices completely unstable because players can basically give them whatever price they want.

The prices are not instable at all, prices are still based on factors. Ex. Availibility and Stats. The weapon-stats were constantly altered in the past hence why the prices have fluctuated making them look unstable.
Secondly, what is wrong with players labeling their own prices for items? I thought that actually adds some "umph" to gameplay.

Originally Posted by salesman

You clearly don't understand what I'm trying to say, so I'll try to make it as simple as possible for you. Unless someone is really trying to screw themselves over, they will not sell a gun for less than they can get for it at the pawn shop, and they will not buy a gun for more than what they would have to pay at a store. It doesn't matter how many are in the economy, the prices will remain relatively static within that price range.

Would you sell an SG552 for 45k when you can get 50k from the pawnshop? No. Would you buy an SG552 for 100k when you can buy it from John's store for 60k? No.

If an item is mass-released, its "street value" will obviously drop, but it will never go below the price that the pawn shop will buy it back for. By that point, how much players are willing to spend on it just comes down to convenience -- is it easier to buy it from a shop and spend an extra 5k or find a player? Eventually, the price might go back up due to people selling them back to the pawn shop or going inactive (reducing availability), but the street value will never be more than the maximum price that shops can sell it for.

You seem to not clearly understand that the price of an item is not decided by the seller, nor the buyer alone. Buyer decides what he'll pay based upon the information he has on the item, and the seller decides what he'll sell it for based on the same. Only thing that influences them both; is information.
As I've shown you from your test-pawnshop prices will move about anyway, regardless of whatever that shop says. If I know that my item has lost is value and I can no longer sell it for shop-price, I'm going to sell it for whatever amount I can to "cut" my losses.

Only thing you're right about is that they would never sell it for less than they could to the pawn shop. That leaves selling it for pawn-shop price, or anything even slightly above it in the range.

A mass-production of items is overall tacky anyway. Weapons as whole need more variety, hence why limiting them wouldn't be negatory in anyway. The pawn shop has its pros and cons, but it most definitely is not the solution to the overall problem, as your test-version shows.

[papajchris]

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

I'll use your test-pawn shop as an example. Every weapon in the pawn shop currently is selling for less than its pawn shop value.

Sg556 (Unknown due to no one even having one, mostlikely all sold it back).
Colt6 (5,000-6,000$) - 7,500$ in pawn shop.
Osiris (85,000$) - 100,000$ in Pawn Shop.
Neo Rifle (70,000-75000$) - 85,000$ in Pawn Shop.
"Berettas" (3,000$) - 4,000$ in Pawn Shop.
Ivories (15,000 -17000$) - 18,000$ in Pawn Shop.

Takes care of that point.

I think sales is saying if players could sell their items BACK to the store.

[salesman]

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

I'll use your test-pawn shop as an example. Every weapon in the pawn shop currently is selling for less than its pawn shop value.

Sg556 (Unknown due to no one even having one, mostlikely all sold it back).
Colt6 (5,000-6,000$) - 7,500$ in pawn shop.
Osiris (85,000$) - 100,000$ in Pawn Shop.
Neo Rifle (70,000-75000$) - 85,000$ in Pawn Shop.
"Berettas" (3,000$) - 4,000$ in Pawn Shop.
Ivories (15,000 -17000$) - 18,000$ in Pawn Shop.

Takes care of that point.

I was referring to the prices that the pawn shop buys items back for, not the prices it sells them. Although, the prices it sells them for do play an important part by creating a maximum (nobody will be able to sell a gun in the pawn shop for more than what they pawn shop sells it for). I guess we were just misunderstanding each other.

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

The prices are not instable at all, prices are still based on factors. Ex. Availibility and Stats. The weapon-stats were constantly altered in the past hence why the prices have fluctuated making them look unstable.
Secondly, what is wrong with players labeling their own prices for items? I thought that actually adds some "umph" to gameplay.

You're either pulling **** out of your ass, or you're just extremely ignorant. Prices have ALWAYS been unstable due to many different factors. I could probably find several posts/threads with people complaining about gun values changing constantly, but I really don't think I need to.

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

snip

You seem to not read what I've said, no matter how many time I repeat myself. I'm going to leave it at what I've already stated more than once, and hope the people who actually have a say in the matter take my points into consideration.

[Venom_Fish]

Gun Values only change when the weapon changes, whether thats in availibility, stats or other factors. If I'm paying 45k for an Sg552, and there's 8 of them at this time. I will not pay anymore for it until something on about that gun changes.
If you remember, dimwit. Masa was altering every single weapon for a few months, which completely through off prices and everything got randomize.

I guarantee you, any post you read about problem with prices will pan out to be the cause of a factor change. No one just gets up in the morning and says, "hey... im gonna buy a gun for 2x the price today because i feel like setting off prices". Something has to change. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

So if you have posts of them changing, I think you need to put those up. Since I never said prices didn't fluctuate, the reasons behind them 9/10 were the screwups of staff. Like everything else.

[salesman]

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

Gun Values only change when the weapon changes, whether thats in availibility, stats or other factors. If I'm paying 45k for an Sg552, and there's 8 of them at this time. I will not pay anymore for it until something on about that gun changes.
If you remember, dimwit. Masa was altering every single weapon for a few months, which completely through off prices and everything got randomize.

I guarantee you, any post you read about problem with prices will pan out to be the cause of a factor change. No one just gets up in the morning and says, "hey... im gonna buy a gun for 2x the price today because i feel like setting off prices". Something has to change. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

So if you have posts of them changing, I think you need to put those up. Since I never said prices didn't fluctuate, the reasons behind them 9/10 were the screwups of staff. Like everything else.

Exactly. However, it's not always staff that cause prices to change (could be more being released, players going inactive/getting banned, etc). With set price ranges, the price will always be within that range no matter what changes. If guns were limited, then any little thing can upset the prices. You just proved my point.

[Demisis_P2P]

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

Gun Values only change when the weapon changes, whether thats in availibility, stats or other factors. If I'm paying 45k for an Sg552, and there's 8 of them at this time. I will not pay anymore for it until something on about that gun changes.

No one just gets up in the morning and says, "hey... im gonna buy a gun for 2x the price today because i feel like setting off prices". Something has to change.

The maximum price actually always increases with the money supply, as long as everything else stays the same, availability included.

People might not wake up and say "hey I'm going to offer 2x as much today", but they wake up and say "I'm going to offer all my money for ___ gun because it's the next best I can get".

This might mean some noob offering $2900 for Berettas. And then when he gets rejected he goes back and mines for a while and the next day he offers $3100 for them. Now he's not going to sell them for less than $3100, because the availability and all other factors are the same.

Or it might mean some MegaBucks guy offering 1mil for a BAR and then 6 months later offering 1.6mil for it, even though everything has remained the same.

Because the nature of Era is that you only get to equip 1 item. So people are always going to want to equip the best gun they can in that slot, and almost everyone is going to be willing to offer everything they have at that point in time to get the best item they can get.

[Venom_Fish]

Originally Posted by salesman

Exactly. However, it's not always staff that cause prices to change (could be more being released, players going inactive/getting banned, etc). With set price ranges, the price will always be within that range no matter what changes. If guns were limited, then any little thing can upset the prices. You just proved my point.

Largest contributor to the variability of prices are the staffteam interferring in some way, shape or form. There's no way you could possibly set price ranges unless you do away with players being able to sell/buy items from eachother.
Combining both you and Demisis' points, players are unpredictable... they may not always do whats "logical". A majority of the time; they don't... kind of like staff, but lets not get into that.

The main problem is new players being able to acquire whats classed as "adequate weapons". That, I can see being done by balanced weapons and balanced prices. To set a price range for every item and believe that it'll stay that way for an extended period of time; I have to say I doubt it.

If anything your pawn shop might cause some problems with rewarding more for an item than its actually "worth". Ex. I don't think we've seen the last of duping. What better way to scratchaway the evidence than to turn it into "legitimate" cash.

[Good_Ol_Daze]

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

Largest contributor to the variability of prices are the staffteam interferring in some way, shape or form. There's no way you could possibly set price ranges unless you do away with players being able to sell/buy items from eachother.
Combining both you and Demisis' points, players are unpredictable... they may not always do whats "logical". A majority of the time; they don't... kind of like staff, but lets not get into that.

Did you read Demisis's post????

If so how did you reach the conclusion of "I should post this again"???

[Venom_Fish]

Same reason you find it ever so fruitful to read entire threads simply to post a few unuseful and overall idiotic sentences.

[Good_Ol_Daze]

You do it to call yourself out on being wrong?

That doesn't seem like very fulfilling work.

p.s. I actually only read demisis's posts because he's my favorite

[Catbert]

I find that the business system on Era was all bull****, and if you knew a PR on Era you kept your business forever. Pyro Tech was never making any money and Amber still owned it for ages. Give me a break. I was so pissed off at Era that when I raised 600k from mining, I saved it and tried getting a Tommygun instead of saving up for a business. That didn't go too well. I ended up spending it all and now businesses are going for cheap. Sounds like the business economy is garbage nowadays, hopefully this saves it.

[Herb_P2P]

cry

[Rave_J]

hey guys cant help but vote about this the player owned thing i was shock that frankie or demisis didnt mention this but sound like its the system or something sounds like jenn era biz system u spent 50k for the building u buy licenses to sell guns and ammo people just make mk23 which was the best weapon spawn the hell out of an thars that if u didnt pay bills u lose it with gangs u pay for it when u lose all ur points its bye bye so if it fail once why so it again? anyways i think business needs change but keep the main structure of them. and yes swift eggroll shack was done an i even told staff ill make more tricks ect im pretty sure i have the content if its not on the server tim should know where its at u guys are more then welcome to use it anyways is chains ever gonna come back chris?

[Seeya]

I like the idea, Dr. Vimes.

[Catbert]

Meh, nobody ever lets me own my own business. It's only ***gots who are friends with the business owner or Exolia's **** buddies. It's harsh, but it's true. Sure, I make more then a business mining solo, but why can't I make a little extra? Give me a break Era!

[Supaman771]

Originally Posted by Catbert

Meh, nobody ever lets me own my own business.

Because posts like ^

[Good_Ol_Daze]

Originally Posted by Catbert

Meh, nobody ever lets me own my own business. It's only ***gots who are friends with the business owner or Exolia's **** buddies. It's harsh, but it's true. Sure, I make more then a business mining solo, but why can't I make a little extra? Give me a break Era!

Ho Mo Pho Bi A

[zim5354]

Era has always revolved around cronyism, if you try and argue anything else you've got to be kidding. But with an attitude like that you will never get a business Catbert. Honestly the best way to get anywhere in Era is to make "powerful" friends (haha powerful and era in the same sentence).

[Dnegel]

Originally Posted by zim5354

Era has always revolved around cronyism, if you try and argue anything else you've got to be kidding. But with an attitude like that you will never get a business Catbert. Honestly the best way to get anywhere in Era is to make "powerful" friends (haha powerful and era in the same sentence).

First you get the money, and then you get the power.

[FantasyX]

catbert4manager

[papajchris]

Originally Posted by Catbert

Meh, nobody ever lets me own my own business. It's only ***gots...

aha! so it is the homosexuals that won't let you own a business? If that isn't what you meant, use a better choice of words next time!

[Donark]

What happens when someone becomes so rich and winds up buying all the businesses.

Yes, you can limit one business per account but someone can just easily buy it for friends and then get Co - Owner and do most of the work. Then they could earn enough for a third, and buy it for a third friend, and get Co - Owner for that business as well.

You could probably limit the ammount of businesses allowed to join to 1, but there's still a possibility that a group of friends will wind up owning a third or more of the businesses.

[Good_Ol_Daze]

Actually at present I would say Era is more about who can be the biggest miner fatty or who can scam the biggest miner fatty.

Good luck getting a stable economy when you've got infinite money coming from nowhere and one worthwhile gun to spend it on.

[Rave_J]

i just say cap money an no more trades or drops