Following the footsteps of Zone

[Conqueror]

Originally Posted by kia345

Maybe if Samurai showed up for their own wars, there'd be a bit more activity.

Yeah whats with that eh.. *cough*

And StormY, you and I both know what the true answer to this dilemna is.

"Come play my lord."

[CABAL49]

Graal just doesn't have the appeal it used to have. In the last five years, MMORPGs have become increasingly popular. GK and the other Graal servers are just outdated. It is hard to bring in new people. It is really hard to be optimistic, when criticism is simply shut down. There are MMORPGs out there that are doing a much better job than Graal is, and instead of using their ideas (not talking about stealing) we are simply forbidden to talk about them /rant

[Tones]

Originally Posted by CABAL49

Graal just doesn't have the appeal it used to have. In the last five years, MMORPGs have become increasingly popular. GK and the other Graal servers are just outdated. It is hard to bring in new people. It is really hard to be optimistic, when criticism is simply shut down. There are MMORPGs out there that are doing a much better job than Graal is, and instead of using their ideas (not talking about stealing) we are simply forbidden to talk about them /rant

derp derp

[kia345]

Originally Posted by Tones

derp derp

hurr durr

[BigBear3]

I am da king.

[Gothika]

Originally Posted by BigBear3

I am da king.

Your confusing me, stealing my sig and all.

[OasaTor_PK]

Release a "classic" version of GK where everyone is reset.

In 3 months after everyone gets a start, make it gold, offer some sort of incentive to current players to retain something (so all there hard work doesnt go in vein).

draws in players. gg. oasa 4 the count, and thats 3. I win.

[MajinDragon]

Originally Posted by OasaTor_PK

Release a "classic" version of GK where everyone is reset.

In 3 months after everyone gets a start, make it gold, offer some sort of incentive to current players to retain something (so all there hard work doesnt go in vein).

draws in players. gg. oasa 4 the count, and thats 3. I win.

Although a reset appeals to some. GK is not built for a reset, there's not enough content for players to recoup their old items through 'playing' and the new server would just be like the old, reliant on events. Restarting the decade long cycle just isn't the answer.

[Gothika]

A reset would pretty much whipe out the majority of the small playercount we have as it is. I think one thing that is up to us to do, as players and kingdom leaders and kingdom developers is make Kingdoms more apealing, give kingdoms more purpose. More wars, more joint-kingdom events. Kingdoms are boring nowadays. They used to be amazing, events all the time. If we give noobs more of an insentive to join kingdoms. i.e help leveling, advice, events for standard equipment that they could use.

Tig, or the Events Master Admin could give Kingdom Leaders a monthly allowance of basic armour, weapons etc. Like Marks, FHoMs, GE's and so on. Use these to plan regular events within the Kingdom to give all the noobies a good chance to get ahead in the game.

[BigBear3]

Originally Posted by Gothika

A reset

I stopped reading after your first sentence, because I would LOVE a reset.

[Seeya]

but we ARE lacking content, seriously, unless your real into collecting and doing nothing, getting armor is near pointless

[Clockwork]

I would absolutely love a reset. A chance for new players to come and be on par with everyone else, and to see just who really knows what they're doing on GK, and to piss off everyone who spent so much usd'ing items.

[MajinDragon]

Originally Posted by Clockwork

I would absolutely love a reset. A chance for new players to come and be on par with everyone else, and to see just who really knows what they're doing on GK, and to piss off everyone who spent so much usd'ing items.

It's obvious for those that have been unlucky in accumulating wealth or progressing through GK to be in favor of a reset. But it wouldn't solve anything. Many may wish to be on par with everyone else, but resetting everyone is the quick option that may seem easy but doesn't solve any problems. Eventually the class system will return, usding would return, the process restarts the problems still exist. As much as it's always fun to make usders cry, you ignore the many players that actually played the game, and worked for it all.

GK needs investment. Advertising and hired developers. That's all there is to it.

[Draenin]

For the thousandth time, resets don't solve anything. Majin is correct in saying the past will repeat itself. Nothing about the actual game would change by resetting the stats of all players.

You can't strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.

[joel34]

A new quest every 2-3 months might get in more players.

[Seeya]

perhaps updates

[Supaman771]

-Obviously- The Quarterly updates are whatever Tig could think of changing the day beforehand. The only -new- content I've seen happens on holidays (2x a year?) and are usually things that if Tig -tried- to do he could do in a day or so. The overall problem is a lack of new players on Graal thus a lack of new developers on Graal. But seeing as how it got all of us addicted despite the few yearly updates, crappy graphics, and 90% idiotic playerbase all they really need to do is advertise and get the players to log in. And maybe when there's a steady higher player count, Stefan can lower his prices (opposite of what'd happen, but lets hope?) Thus GK (and Graal) go ^.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by Supaman771

The overall problem is a lack of new players on Graal thus a lack of new developers on Graal.

You'd be surprised how many players are developing right now.

Originally Posted by Supaman771

idiotic playerbase

You mean the player populace that you're also a part of?

Originally Posted by Supaman771

all they really need to do is advertise and get the players to log in.

And convince every GK player to stop preaching doom and gloom to every new player they meet.

[BigBear3]

Reset reset reset reset

[gravator]

USDing on kingdoms should have never happened at all, i read posts stating that it was not allowed, but i read plenty of messages years ago that people were selling USD, and to contact them on AIM or another instant messangers, those folks should have gotten permabanned and had their accounts stripped of items and money for events.


Now however Stefan and Unixmad have the right idea of an ingame shop you spend real money in, hopefully they expand on that to include much more, and that could possibly lower the cost of subscriptions overall.

[nullify]

I'm loving the lack of input and comments from administration.

[nullify]

GK has been **** for years man. It's not like this is a new development. Although, it's getting progressively worse.

[OasaTor_PK]

A reset will fix everything.
Everyone will be at a steady playing field, remove bugs like leveling to 110 off alchemy and reading scrolls.

I can bet that 90% of the players who start playing STOP PLAYING because everyone is 900x better then them and whats the point if all I can get is this flaming sword?

[Demisis_P2P]

Originally Posted by OasaTor_PK

I can bet that 90% of the players who start playing STOP PLAYING because everyone is 900x better then them and whats the point if all I can get is this flaming sword?

Doesn't mean you need a reset though.
If there was a weapons/armor SHOP where I could just BUY weapons and armor for platinum coins I would probably play GK.

There's no excuse for the lack of content.
It wouldn't be hard to create one new item every day. At that rate the available items would be doubled in basically one quarterly update cycle.

Monsters are a lot harder to make but it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect one new mob every month. But even if there was only one new monster added every quarter by now there would have been 32 more things to kill on GK and levelling to 110 at a reasonable pace could by possible legitimately.

[kia345]

Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P

Doesn't mean you need a reset though.

Yeah it does. Buyable items won't stack up against the unbuyable simply because they're accessible. That puts people who don't already have top tier **** at a disadvantage.

I'd actually rather an experience reset than an item reset. That's not to say I wouldn't want both.

[Demisis_P2P]

Originally Posted by kia345

Yeah it does. Buyable items won't stack up against the unbuyable simply because they're accessible. That puts people who don't already have top tier **** at a disadvantage.

I'd actually rather an experience reset than an item reset. That's not to say I wouldn't want both.

Who says they wouldn't measure up?
Are you forgetting that RoWs are buyable rings?
They're rare, sure, but that just means that you actually need to work at obtaining them.
You might not be able to just buy a shield and sword and go out swinging at kingdom leaders, but at least if you can actually buy items that aren't just glok lord belt and lucky rabbit boots it'll be worth your while to get diamonds and improve your items so that eventually you can compete.

You can't just log onto WoW and start swinging at level 80s either.
But GK at the moment is like WoW if you took out all the items between level 10 and level 79.

[kia345]

Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P

Who says they wouldn't measure up?
Are you forgetting that RoWs are buyable rings?
They're rare, sure, but that just means that you actually need to work at obtaining them.
You might not be able to just buy a shield and sword and go out swinging at kingdom leaders, but at least if you can actually buy items that aren't just glok lord belt and lucky rabbit boots it'll be worth your while to get diamonds and improve your items so that eventually you can compete.

You can't just log onto WoW and start swinging at level 80s either.
But GK at the moment is like WoW if you took out all the items between level 10 and level 79.

I have been wasting time on GK for years, and buying RoWs from shops is even less conventional than buying them from players.

You're also putting too much faith in items, which mean nothing. A flaming sword is just as functional as an inferno sword, and a glok belt is one of the more high tier belts. The only items that "make a difference" are too common among older/USDing players, and they pushed the necessary stats of pking too high. Being able to get "better" items easier wouldn't make a single difference. If anything, it would make it worse, because now you've got even more items worth nothing in the player market.

[Seeya]

Its hard to say how an item can just be released daily though.

[Demisis_P2P]

Originally Posted by Seeya

Its hard to say how an item can just be released daily though.

They can't be. Stefan is ****ing neurotic about this ****. He's only given Tig limited access to stuff, and he'll only copy over content from the Dev server to the main server once every 3 months. But if the items were made on a daily basis, when that 3 months come around it'll be like having 14 Christmases at once.

[Gothika]

The problem with most players not sticking around is because they find it too hard to level up. Making it even harder would just push more people away.

[Demisis_P2P]

Originally Posted by Gothika

The problem with most players not sticking around is because they find it too hard to level up. Making it even harder would just push more people away.

The first few levels are a pain in the ass.
I need to kill something like 400 shell bomies to get my physical level from 1-2 because I already gained 5 mental levels which decreased the amount of experience I get.

But after that once you can kill T-rexes and skeletons leveling isn't that bad until about level 20.

Then you get slapped in the face by an overwhelming lack of leveling content. Where you suddenly need to spend a few weeks getting diamonds to improve your gear so that you can kill lords.

And then you hit a wall again and then you need to spend all your time getting immense/brutal maps.

It has been mentioned before, but if exp didn't get decreased leveling would be be much more linear instead of completely dipping off every few levels. And then you would need fewer mobs to fill in those leveling gaps.

[xAndrewx]

Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P

The first few levels are a pain in the ass.
I need to kill something like 400 shell bomies to get my physical level from 1-2 because I already gained 5 mental levels which decreased the amount of experience I get.

But after that once you can kill T-rexes and skeletons leveling isn't that bad until about level 20.

Then you get slapped in the face by an overwhelming lack of leveling content. Where you suddenly need to spend a few weeks getting diamonds to improve your gear so that you can kill lords.

And then you hit a wall again and then you need to spend all your time getting immense/brutal maps.

It has been mentioned before, but if exp didn't get decreased leveling would be be much more linear instead of completely dipping off every few levels. And then you would need fewer mobs to fill in those leveling gaps.

Nailed it.

Hey, was it your --fake-- birthday the other day? o-o

[Slade0Hiro]

Originally Posted by Gothika

The problem with most players not sticking around is because they find it too hard to level up. Making it even harder would just push more people away.

i kind of disagree...
mainly because i dont see trials sticking around and they get to their highest level fairly fast :P

The problem with leveling is there isnt much point appart from pvp as you get higher you kill everything and then its just zombies that kill you, so 1 place that even when u get higher isnt so much chalenging but anoying because i would be able to kill them alot easier if i didnt get knocked back every punch they throw.

Personally i think there are no challenging dungeons getting harder as you level, there is when people start "its to hard" then as they level "its easy and tedious"

I think some creative dungeons even using resized and or recoloured monsters not just for high level but going up levels i would say the HH's are good enougth for people lvl 5 - 15?
Make a new dungeon in the mountain using the mine tileset with things that would be a bit more chalenging, iguadons or something.
Add something hard at the end of them like lords when they are at the end of the HH just add something that stays there and respawns every hour and is a bit harder then the monsters in that dungeon.

The Labyrinth has a nice limited sight effect make a dungeon in the "dungeon" with that to give it that ooo dark feeling and fill it with recoloured monsters that are dark so it feel like they are just popping out at you.

Make the dungeons a bit longer, and make sure that a very basic and simple ice storm doesnt let you open every locked door... add a chest like the ones for stat pots but allow them to give mana crystals and health pots and have the key an uncommon drop from the monsters in the dungeon, a basic looking key like in the HH just recolour it gold to make it stand out from the other keys.

Add other area's in these dungeons that require more then one person maybe 2 - 3 (not something saying "you need this many people") something like one steps on a tile that opens a door the other goes through and steps on the tile behind the door to keep it open while the other gets in type things.

Puzzles to get rid of the mind numbing kill everything grab loot, the only thing that really makes people interact together in the game (appart from the event when one is held, but thats more competing) is the crypt, and thats only because it make you, really im sure if you could go in just yourself everyone that could, would...

Most can kill everyone but kasvir so if no one that can kill him is on, they get anyone and just kill the other guys for exp and if it didnt force you to have 3 or more people most people that are on know how to run until they stick to the wall and use a high level elemental scroll to kill them...

Think recolours are bad? as long as they arnt like alchemy recolours and keep the detail of the first graphic with a different colour it better then months of no new content in my opinion.

Apparently people hate long posts so i'll stop while its short... lol

[TSAdmin]

Originally Posted by Slade0Hiro

people hate long posts so i'll stop while its short...

It really wasn't...

Originally Posted by Slade0Hiro

i kind of disagree...
mainly because i dont see trials sticking around and they get to their highest level fairly fast :P

This would have kept it short.

[MajinDragon]

Originally Posted by Gothika

The problem with most players not sticking around is because they find it too hard to level up. Making it even harder would just push more people away.

Some skills need to be made harder to level. It's obvious there's inconsistency between the different skills in relation to leveling so it wouldn't be a bad thing to fix that.

[Gothika]

Originally Posted by MajinDragon

Some skills need to be made harder to level. It's obvious there's inconsistency between the different skills in relation to leveling so it wouldn't be a bad thing to fix that.

I'd be all for making some skills harder to level. Like Mental and Agility, but only if they give them more use. Agility does nothing besides get you lots of exp quickly if it actually gave you a reason to level it then I would be worth it.

[BigBear3]

Originally Posted by Gothika

I'd be all for making some skills harder to level. Like Mental and Agility, but only if they give them more use. Agility does nothing besides get you lots of exp quickly if it actually gave you a reason to level it then I would be worth it.

-looks at 83 agility-

[Stephen]

Okay guys, sorry for the long post. I have addressed a lot of posts individually and some as a group. Later today I'm going to release a document which outlines a business strategy for Graal Online - I submitted it a few weeks ago but it was dismissed. Eurocenter doesn't have the time to focus on Graal Online, and isn't competent enough to put someone in charge who has the time to focus.

That's really the base problem on all of the servers right now.

Originally Posted by seanthien

I wonder who runs Zone..Hmmm...I wonder who runs Gk..HM..
What administrators do they have in common?

Maybe that's to blame, although prob it's lack of content as a major factor.

Graal Online is dying, and the Gold products - which people must pay for - are no longer products of interest.

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

If any server has the benefit right now when it comes to the pricing system, it's GK(and Zodiac, I think). GK has no observer mode, so players can try the server out to a large degree without the suffocation of the observer mode. Sure, the pricing is still steep, but at least they don't have to deal with observer mode like most other servers.

The problem with Zone is that our little french friends put too much emphasis on paid content and didn't think to consider that the majority would have little interest in paying for ****ty content.

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

Unless the embarrassment stems from the lack of players, that's a very contradicting statement.

We need some great new content and an even better system to support it before we start throwing money down the advertisement hole. I'm sure FP knows this, so consider it an FYI for everyone else.

Originally Posted by Crimson2005

So are the quarterly updates out the window then? Maybe if GK got more attention than updating it 4 times a year there'd be activity; then again it's a struggle to manage 4 updates a year it seems

Quarterly updates were a great idea. Sadly, Stefan couldn't give us access to the stuff we ask for a year in advance - so quarterly updates couldn't work.

Originally Posted by Crimson2005

The GK management just keeps lowering the bar for themselves and as a result, everyone else has to suffer while the place just stagnates. The fact they couldn't manage 4 updates a year, and the fact that making a windmill move is considered an update, really says a lot about the people in charge.

I realize your quote essentially gives the same message as I already addressed, but I just wanted to point it out to people so they can see how clearly you're head hunting. You don't want anything but trouble - or you'd bring some suggestions to the table.

Originally Posted by joel34

There haven't been any new dungeon in like a year.

I'd really like to make a new one geared towards level 25-50 players, with emphasis put on larger parties (than crypt) of 6-8 players.

Originally Posted by Draenin

I imagine that agreeing to run GK is a lot like climbing into a coffin.

More like an iron maiden.

Originally Posted by Elk

If I ran it, I would make a new GK

quoted for the lulz.

Originally Posted by nullify

Back on topic, management can't even handle quarterly updates now. The last "update" we seen were bug fixes and crap that didn't even need to be changed (avatar timeout). That kind of stuff shouldn't even be considered an "update". If there's a bug it should be fixed immediately and not treated like "new" content.

Quoted to illustrate the doppleganger effect Xaphan had. Again we will observe no actual suggestions are brought to the table - only the dastardly "anti-suggestions" I have mentioned in the past.

Originally Posted by nullify

And the crypt is STILL broken. You'd think after nearly 3 years now it'd be handled.

Stefan will probably be angry at me for this, but again - we're waiting on Stefan to fix a scheduling error in the gserver.

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Quarterly updates were a good incentive to give the players someone to look forward to, based on the assumption there was always going to be an update every quarter. However, that fell through. And to add to the problem, quarterly updates should have been reserved for larger and exciting updates and additions, and more minor updates and fixes(in fact, ALL fixes) should be done on the spot.

Think of how bad it feels to have to wait around for fixes to the Graal client because of the same mentality. Why do this to the players, too?

However, whether these problems are because of management or the limitations brought on by Stefan's need to be involved, I don't know.

I have a pretty good list of concepts and improvements that Tig and I optimized for our quarterly releases. I should share them sometime. People would begin to understand how disappointed Tig and I. Our nice concepts, which the players would have loved, may never see the light of day because Stefan is spread too thin on the QuattoPlay engine and iPhone development.

Originally Posted by CABAL49

Graal just doesn't have the appeal it used to have.

It really doesn't. Later today I am going to release a document I presented to our Little French Friends. They dismissed it, but we will all agree that it's a good concept.

Originally Posted by OasaTor_PK

Release a "classic" version of GK where everyone is reset.

I would love to do this - I observed a long time ago that GK is badly diluted with ****ty content that only confuses players.

Originally Posted by MajinDragon

Although a reset appeals to some. GK is not built for a reset, there's not enough content for players to recoup their old items through 'playing' and the new server would just be like the old, reliant on events. Restarting the decade long cycle just isn't the answer.

If we did a reset we would have to make all new islands and change some of the basic systems so that people with experience in the existing systems don't walk in and immediately begin profiting.

Originally Posted by Supaman771

-Obviously- The Quarterly updates are whatever Tig could think of changing the day beforehand. The only -new- content I've seen happens on holidays (2x a year?) and are usually things that if Tig -tried- to do he could do in a day or so. The overall problem is a lack of new players on Graal thus a lack of new developers on Graal. But seeing as how it got all of us addicted despite the few yearly updates, crappy graphics, and 90% idiotic playerbase all they really need to do is advertise and get the players to log in. And maybe when there's a steady higher player count, Stefan can lower his prices (opposite of what'd happen, but lets hope?) Thus GK (and Graal) go ^.

Again, I am only quoting this sort of post so people can see the trash we have to deal with regularely.

Originally Posted by OasaTor_PK

A reset will fix everything.

It would be so difficult to effectively re-organize all of the systems... I don't think an optimistic outcome is realistic with a reset. It's a happy idea, none the less though.

Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P

They can't be. Stefan is ****ing neurotic about this ****. He's only given Tig limited access to stuff, and he'll only copy over content from the Dev server to the main server once every 3 months. But if the items were made on a daily basis, when that 3 months come around it'll be like having 14 Christmases at once.

I don't think releasing new content daily would help much - it would just dilute the economy. Perhaps I misunderstood?

Originally Posted by StormYs

A reset wouldn't be favorable for GK, ppl already mentioned the reasons why it wouldn't be.

Putting faith in items isn't a wrong thought.
The more items craftable the funner GK can get

Right strategy, wrong execution. We need to focus on some creation and interaction concepts, but I'm not sure item creation is where we need to focus. Houses, farms... things community oriented.

Originally Posted by Gothika

The problem with most players not sticking around is because they find it too hard to level up. Making it even harder would just push more people away.

I mentioned a new dungeon earlier in my post - I'm hoping that the larger parties (6-8) will help form those friendships and bonds needed to pull people through some of the tough levelling gaps. It worked for me when I was a new player.



This message is for the people who read my whole post. I want to help illustrate the problems to the players so they recognize the confines in which we must work and the opportunities they have available to them. I will again remind players that I have posted a nice community project they can work on in the mean time - it sounds like "work", but the team would quickly find out that it's all fun. Sorry if I insulted or offended anyone, my intent is solely to inform the players so that a progressive conversation can take place.

[Supaman771]

Personally, I think the server is fine with leveling and economy seeing how easy it was for me to get to level 80 and get rich in like a month. I quit only because Tig failed to restore me twice in a period of 6 months of continually re-subscribing to play the server. The thing that's lacking is the updates and content to keep these main areas of the server interesting. Once you get top notch gear and to level 110 there's no point to continue playing.

Loled @ Stephen
Nou @ Trash

[MajinDragon]

Originally Posted by Supaman771

Personally, I think the server is fine with leveling and economy seeing how easy it was for me to get to level 80 and get rich in like a month.

Two area's which aren't at all fine.