Maloria - What happened.

[Inverness]

Originally Posted by Maniaman

What can everyone learn from this?
-When developing a server, PLAN EVERYTHING OUT IN ADVANCE. You want a solid plan before you start development. Then if someone leaves or dissapears, they don't take all of their plans with them.
-If you don't have time to manage a server, let someone else. One hour a day is not enough time to spend managing a server if you want to be successful.
-Managing a server is not as easy as most people think.

This should all be common knowledge, it's kinda sad that people need to be told this.

I plan everything before I make it. Planning is one of the ways you inspire people to do work, because you can share with them an inkling of some great vision you have. On the rare occasion that I make levels, specifically towns, I plan them out beforehand so there aren't wasted buildings, there is room for expansion, and to make the design logical and interesting. I have this nice plan for Santerrain on BI that I was working on, but it seems there is no effort to going into the place so not very inspired to continue work on it.

Anyhow, imho the best thing that can be done to try to save Graal in the short term is to abolish the crappy new playerworld renting system and roll back to the old playerworld system. This way there are less playerworlds and more developers available per playerworld.

[Maniaman]

Originally Posted by Inverness

Anyhow, imho the best thing that can be done to try to save Graal in the short term is to abolish the crappy new playerworld renting system and roll back to the old playerworld system. This way there are less playerworlds and more developers available per playerworld.

Agreed. The good developers are too spread out. You can't make a successful server with just 1 or 2 developers. People need to come together more and work on common projects if Graal is to ever see another server reach the Classic tab.

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by Maniaman

I finally decided to get out of Maloria for good and in 2007 or 2008 I handed it off to Vash-Aniki. beyond this point I don't know enough about what went down to be able to tell you. Ziro could explain it better as he was more actively involved at that point.

Quite wrong. You don't seem to remember that just before you pulled the plug on v2, Zero made it rather obvious that he wanted (and would!) script all of v3 by himself, and made me bid my farewells to Maloria. From late 2005 to late November/December 2008, I wasn't involved with Maloria even the slightest.

Originally Posted by Maniaman

2. Am I responsible for Maloria's downfall? Yes.

On the contrary - without you staying as long as you did, Maloria would have falled apart way earlier, despite popular belief. Without you someone like Gambet would have taken over.

[Maniaman]

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

Quite wrong. You don't seem to remember that just before you pulled the plug on v2, Zero made it rather obvious that he wanted (and would!) script all of v3 by himself, and made me bid my farewells to Maloria. From late 2005 to late November/December 2008, I wasn't involved with Maloria even the slightest.

See this is why I said you know more than me

There's a lot mroe that went on behind the scenes, but so much of it is ust a blur to me now. I remember most of what went on, but dates and the order escapes me.

Also this has caused me to look through old post/chat logs and made me realize that in 2004 I was even more of an idiot than i originally thought.

[zokemon]

I would have scripted all of v3 had I had the help I wanted, truth me told though I did kind of abandon the project my self after having little to no help at all in the graphics department and a plethora of players talking trash about me on the Maloria forums. Guess they didn't like my ideas .

[coreys]

WARNING: Following post may instill a great feeling of tl;dr in the reader.

Uhm, I guess I'll try and fill in some pieces from when Maniaman handed over management to me.

I joined the Maloria staff fairly late in v2 as a GAT by persistence of Laslow. I fairly quickly made my way up to Developer and almost immediately joined the v3 team, though in a minor role. This was when Zero was heading up v3 development. For reasons I don't quite remember, Ziro left, and I became the Head Developer, but not too long after I had to resign that position because I falling very far behind in school.

Fast forward maybe 6 months or so later, not entirely sure how long. Maniaman obviously needed the help, Zero had left, and I felt that I could commit the time to Maloria and came back (as Head Developer, again). At first I tried to see if I could work with Zeros systems, but to be honest with you they were very complex, probably more so than needed. And me and Maniaman decided that not only were the systems too complex to be a viable option without the expertise of Zero, but the gameplay just wasn't what we were looking for.

So we started over. Maniaman had his own ideas and plan that was actually mostly complete, and I attempted to script the systems myself but at the time I wasn't quite ready for that advanced of scripting and recruited a scripter who learned mostly from Inverness (who ended up being my more or less mentor as well, and who I had worked with before Maloria on Aeon) named Stan. He was talented enough for the job, to be sure, but we would have our disagreements and one time it became too much and he quit with a half finished server. This became a similar situation as when after Zero left and by this point Maniaman had resigned and given the Manager position to me.

So, I started over again, this time somewhat able to script everything myself (albeit with help from people like Chompy), but with little plan and little staff and very little support from the Maloria community. I don't blame them for this, I was starting over again. To this day I don't know if that was the right decision or not. I know I was not nearly prepared enough and did not handle my duty well during this whole time though I to this day believe that my overall vision for Maloria is better than what I see now.

My decisions as far as gameplay were concerned were driven mostly by discussion with my asst manager, Nate. I had him as my assistant because not only did he know the server better than most and was (at the time) loyal to Maloria, but he would not hold his tongue. He gave criticism where it was needed. When it came to gameplay I mostly payed attention to his advice. Unfortunately I had become rather arrogant at the time, something I'd like to think I'm now beyond, and when it came to overall management I didn't listen to him, and I payed for it.

So over the months I toiled on Maloria which few staff, most of which were fairly inactive and/or did not do much work, all the while facing considerable outcry from Malorias devout players about my Management. I began falling back in school again, this time with my senior year coming up to worry about, and more stress than anyone should have to endure for a video game, and awareness that I had screwed up pretty bad.

I knew that if I kept going this route that I would drive Maloria to the ground, so I resigned. Rather than give the position to Nate, however, I gave it to Josh, who had payed for the server. But he apparently did not want it, and from what I remember gave it over to Ziro and Nate, which I did not approve of, but what could I do? After this I essentially quit Graal for at least a year and quickly moved on.

I know little of what happened afterwards, you'd have to ask Ziro, as I stopped having an active interest in Maloria. I don't look back at my management in a positive light, there are so many things I would have done differently, but I still believe that what I had planned for Maloria was much better than what seems to be in store for it now.

[Vima]

Stop living in the past.
Whats done has been done, now let's look forward!

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by Vima

Stop living in the past.
Whats done has been done, now let's look forward!

The future can't exist without remembering what happened in the past.

Originally Posted by coreys

I joined the Maloria staff fairly late in v2 as a GAT by persistence of Laslow. I fairly quickly made my way up to Developer and almost immediately joined the v3 team, though in a minor role.

I'm fairly sure that you quit your GAT job at one point, and a couple of weeks/months later were rehired by me as Developer, and quickly obtained the title "Assistant Ziro" (which was a joke for Assistant Developer Admin). Good times.

[BinaryCrash]

Good old days of Maloria.

I remember Maloria had 120+ players at day launch and after that keep 80+ players until people got bored and so on was 50+ players until i left.

I was managing it for more than one year, and in that time even the simplest farm system was news for playerworlds.

But we can't think just bringing the past all together to the present the success is guaranteed... Everything changed, from the players to the Graal itself. Remembering the good old days are useful to inspire new staff. Also it's important to remember the mistakes as it prevent (or should) such things happen again.

I remember i used to be a developer and manager (in that time was still alled "Owner"), and i know (like the others managers) it takes too much time of your day. Graal changed alot, i keep an eye on it and i see the bigged mistake the staff still make is to keep everything centralized. The NAT keep their ideas hold fearing someone will copy it and put on another playerworld (stealing authoring) and whenever the NAT left the staff, it carry the unfinished projects with him.

Before Maloria i was Staff Admin at Enigma (taken down by Stefan when Warcaptain stealed scripts from other server).

Staff carry a lot of responsibility, it's not just time spent.
It's common every staff one day will get busy with other things than graal and eventually left the staff.
I remember i started playing Graal when i was 15 years old, actively played it ntil 22 and then got VERY away as my life and job took all the free time away. Since then i see people want more and more sophisticated scripts/systems. And the adventure/action game turned into a MMORPG style.

With all the new games comming up, Graal would have to change the payment system to increase the number of active players. Like setting it free to play with only special Servers having to pay to play.

Actually the free account is not enough.

A Hug to every old friend. You always can reach me at my email binarycrash aat binarycrash d0t net

[coreys]

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

I'm fairly sure that you quit your GAT job at one point, and a couple of weeks/months later were rehired by me as Developer, and quickly obtained the title "Assistant Ziro" (which was a joke for Assistant Developer Admin). Good times.

Good times indeed
But no, I quit after you did I'm fairly certain.

[WaDaFack]

Pfffffffffffffft. I never got the chance to play Mal.
But, if you guys really liked old Mal, shouldn't there be a backup file for the whole server?

[coreys]

Originally Posted by WaDaFack

Pfffffffffffffft. I never got the chance to play Mal.
But, if you guys really liked old Mal, shouldn't there be a backup file for the whole server?

Maniaman might still have a backup but that's irrelevant. I don't even want to know how broken that would be if you tried to use it now.

[Maniaman]

I have a copy of old mal, v1, and v2. There are random bits and pieces of various v3 projects laying around as well.

I currently have no plans to release them though, except maybe to previous managers/high admins.

Also yes, they are/would be horribly broken if uploaded to a gserver right now.


Edit: whoah BinaryCrash appears out of nowhere. How are things going?

[BinaryCrash]

Originally Posted by Maniaman

I have a copy of old mal, v1, and v2. There are random bits and pieces of various v3 projects laying around as well.

I currently have no plans to release them though, except maybe to previous managers/high admins.

Also yes, they are/would be horribly broken if uploaded to a gserver right now.

I had a backup on DVD, but it's unreadable now.

Would you please email me the backup Maniaman?

Originally Posted by Maniaman

Edit: whoah BinaryCrash appears out of nowhere. How are things going?

actually i have a google alert on my nickname and that is how i got noticed about this topic.

Things are better now, married, working in the area i like.
After graal i helped another friend from Graal to make a online game, actually it was not for commercial, but for hobby. "Auroria Online", i was coding the game server. The game itself was never finished.
After that i went to play other games, helped coding an anti-cheat for game Delta Force Black Hawk Down. An 3D shoot action game from novalogic. It was a community project.
And then after i moved to help TERRA Networks at Brazil with their gamming servers.

I also have my own dedicated servers at Brazil and USA. My job consist of programming (Delphi/PHP/Java) and Administrating Servers, Linux and Windows.

I don't know if i showed you, but early in 2001/2002 i created a small tool to help me browse graal heads. It was called Graal Head Viewer and i showed it only to a few as i created it for personal use.

I hope i am not breaking forum rules by posting the link: http://www.binarycrash.net/members/i...ead_Viewer.zip
(remember it was made for personal use so i didn't care about making a "fancy" tool, and made it only in one hour and also eating food, so it's ugly interface.)

[Dnegel]

Originally Posted by BinaryCrash

Helped coding an anti-cheat for game Delta Force Black Hawk Down.

I remember that game, but I cant seem to find it anywhere in my room.

Originally Posted by BinaryCrash

I hope i am not breaking forum rules by posting the link: http://www.binarycrash.net/members/i...ead_Viewer.zip
(remember it was made for personal use so i didn't care about making a "fancy" tool, and made it only in one hour and also eating food, so it's ugly interface.)

I tryed this, and it's amazing! Why haven't i've found this before?!

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by coreys

Maniaman might still have a backup but that's irrelevant. I don't even want to know how broken that would be if you tried to use it now.

I have backups (that should be uploaded on Maloria as well) of v2, original v3, one/two other v3's as well as the current v3. Missing some v2 stuff though, mainly dungeons.

[coreys]

I've gone through one laptop, two hard-drives, and numerous OS installs along the way, so my v2 and two different v3 backups are long gone, unfortunately.

[tempandrew]

Okay this is the same thing I hear with Babylon over and over again. And it's really getting silly, annoying, and ridiculous.

I don't care how much you loved an old server, it can't be released in the same state it went down in. It won't work, people won't play, globals will not allow it to be put back up. Servers go down for a reason.

Both Maloria and Babylon share the trait that their old versions have poor and inefficient scripting, mediocre LATing, (actually some parts of old Babylon actually pass as decent in modern leveling criticism), and plain old sub-par gameplay. You think it'd be fun today, but that's only because you remember it from a time when it was top quality. But today it's not and you'd understand it if anyone was out of their mind enough to actually do that. Though it doesn't matter because globals would never pass it in inspection.

Servers need to pass specific protocols and standards in order to be allowed to be put on Hosted or Classic. Trust me. I was a well known regular in both Babylon's past and Maloria's. Having those two servers around today as they were would be a disaster.

[Inverness]

If there is a checklist if things your server needs to do before you can be put on the classic tab I haven't seen it. Where to find?

[Immolate]

Originally Posted by tempandrew

(actually some parts of old Babylon actually pass as decent in modern leveling criticism)

I guess that's mostly due to Crono and Infernix.

[tempandrew]

Originally Posted by Inverness

If there is a checklist if things your server needs to do before you can be put on the classic tab I haven't seen it. Where to find?

It's not really up on any page to see, it was more or less passed onto us at Babylon last time we tried to go for inspection. (nobody came in time and the server ran out of time so we got screwed... that's why development's been stalled for months now)

However, this 6 year old thread is still relevant and gives basic outlines to follow.
http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...ad.php?t=51044

Originally Posted by Immolate

I guess that's mostly due to Crono and Infernix.

You mean Inferno, and yeah mostly those two, though people like Wan and others (this is a stretch, but even Star made some decent stuff here and there) really contributed to the LAT wonder that is Babylon. And of course Seph has been a pretty amazing contributor in a more recent stature.

(PS we're always looking for high quality developers that have gold, just stop by and if we like what we see we'll put you to work)

[BinaryCrash]

Originally Posted by Dnegel

I tryed this, and it's amazing! Why haven't i've found this before?!

If you have any suggestion or improvements, fell free to ask.

[Dnegel]

Originally Posted by BinaryCrash

If you have any suggestion or improvements, fell free to ask.

I would love if you could make a version there you could see Bodies too.

I have forgotten to give you rep too for it.

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by BinaryCrash

I hope i am not breaking forum rules by posting the link: http://www.binarycrash.net/members/i...ead_Viewer.zip
(remember it was made for personal use so i didn't care about making a "fancy" tool, and made it only in one hour and also eating food, so it's ugly interface.)

I don't see what this application does that Windows default Search function doesn't already do.

[BinaryCrash]

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

I don't see what this application does that Windows default Search function doesn't already do.

In that time i was using win98, no thumbs in folders.
When in winXP the thumbs shows the entire image.
The program was made to simple copy the part "head down" from the image and make the thumbs, allowing me to see the names and use it.

At that time i made it head only as it has only 17 custom bodies at all graal (year 2001-2002).

I haven't check yet if Vista or win7 does this job already.

[BinaryCrash]

Originally Posted by Dnegel

I would love if you could make a version there you could see Bodies too.

I have forgotten to give you rep too for it.

I am making a new version with what you asked and a little more.
heads, swords, bodies and shields.

This time the interface is better, but it is not finished yet.
Take a look...


EDIT: Now the heads part totally rewritten with transparency enabled.

[Dnegel]

Originally Posted by BinaryCrash

I am making a new version with what you asked and a little more.
heads, swords, bodies and shields.

This time the interface is better, but it is not finished yet.
Take a look...
-Image-

EDIT: Now the heads part totally rewritten with transparency enabled.

-Image-

Wow!

That is some pretty neat stuff man!

[superzx14]

That's awesome. Maloria needs a something like that.

[Crono]

binary <3.

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by superzx14

That's awesome. Maloria needs a something like that.

No? This is a tool to browse your local folders, a rather nifty one at it.

[Engine]

Have there been any updates on Maloria lately? The Maloria forums are rather dead and I don't know if you guys even bother posting updates on there anymore.

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by Engine

Have there been any updates on Maloria lately? The Maloria forums are rather dead and I don't know if you guys even bother posting updates on there anymore.

Originally Posted by Xzirox

The only purpose of these forums are for staff to discuss and retrieve information, and thus, only the staff section is active. That will obviously change once we get players, but until then,

Quoted one of my posts on the Maloria forums.

[Unkownsoldier]

Hey I have a question...

Why are some of you obsessing over a game?

If Maloria comes back, great. If it doesn't it shouldn't effect you. Its a game, if you are bored on Graal, there are several other USEFUL things you can be doing with your time. Thanks.

[fowlplay4]

Originally Posted by Unkownsoldier

Hey I have a question...

Why are some of you obsessing over a game?

If Maloria comes back, great. If it doesn't it shouldn't effect you. Its a game, if you are bored on Graal, there are several other USEFUL things you can be doing with your time. Thanks.

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by Unkownsoldier

Hey I have a question...

Why are some of you obsessing over a game?

If Maloria comes back, great. If it doesn't it shouldn't effect you. Its a game, if you are bored on Graal, there are several other USEFUL things you can be doing with your time. Thanks.

It's called nostalgia, not obsession.

[coreys]

And there's other USEFUL things you could be doing other than posting about people needing to find USEFUL things to do.

[Crono1508]

I would be extremely satisfied if they brought back the old Maloria. The one before Gambet became in control with his taxed auction house, lottery, and items that gave weird buffs (such as a fire shield that resisted damage)

But of course, nobody else sees this as a successful idea.

(Because Maloria has been nothing for the past five years)

[Gambet]

I was directed to this thread by someone that found it humorous, so I decided that it was worth commenting on. The last time I worked on Maloria was in 2006 and I documented all of my updates:

http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...ad.php?t=66435

The bit at the end of the post was just fluff, there wasn't much change that I made that wasn't noted in that thread. If you notice the very first post to the thread, Ziro compliments me by telling me "good job."

While not everyone may have liked my updates, I tried my best at the time and had the right intentions in mind. Also, considering Ziro had a hand in some of the last updates I ever released on the server, I don't see why he's pointing the blame on me, especially since he clearly approved of my updates at the time as shown in his post.

I was never in charge of the server, there were always people above me in rank, and regardless of that, I wasn't a part of the staff team when the server did finally go down. Maloria was around for a while after I left, quit pointing the finger at people that didn't actually cause it to die out.

[WhiteDragon]

Originally Posted by Gambet

quit pointing the finger at people

Probably should have just ended the sentence there.

[coreys]

Ziro never said he wasn't partially to blame. He said the exact opposite, actually, though I don't think it's nearly as simple as blaming it on any few persons.

But what is done is done, even if it is someones fault it's nothing to take against them, really.