Working with Layers

[DarkIceX]

Originally Posted by Imperialistic

An opinion is not going to change my ways of understanding.
And then again you're assuming that it's "hard work", pretty quick to stand up for someone.

I can't really just sit here and tell the guy what he's doing wrong, I just know that they are mostly sloppy, and not enough detail.
There are attractive tree's so take advantage of them, the path looks a little to much chunky and wide, and the grass detail is just fail.

So are you saying you want a level so full of trees you can't move, a tiny little path that would be almost too small to walk on and a level so full of grass detail that it looks crowded?

You're not being very specific, either be more specific and tell me what's "fail" about the grass detailing (and apparently the rest of the level) or stop posting. Crono told me what he does not like about the level personally and it was good constructive criticism. I will be taking it into account. What you're doing is more on the level of full out bashing, so please rethink your replies.

I know I'm rusty, I know I haven't done any levels in about a year, but I'm not going to get my style just right like it was before if people are only telling me "lul ur gras detaliz fael."

P.S. If you can't just sit there and tell people what they're doing wrong, you need to rethink being a LAT in the first place. It's really not hard. I did it the other day, in great detail and helped the person who PMed me quite a bit. I've seen Crono do it countless times as well as other people.

Thanks bro.

/rant

[Imperialistic]

Originally Posted by DarkIceX

So are you saying you want a level so full of trees you can't move, a tiny little path that would be almost too small to walk on and a level so full of grass detail that it looks crowded?

Your sarcasm is retarded.

You're not being very specific, either be more specific and tell me what's "fail" about the grass detailing (and apparently the rest of the level) or stop posting. Crono told me what he does not like about the level personally and it was good constructive criticism. I will be taking it into account. What you're doing is more on the level of full out bashing, so please rethink your replies.

I know I'm rusty, I know I haven't done any levels in about a year, but I'm not going to get my style just right like it was before if people are only telling me "lul ur gras detaliz fael."

P.S. If you can't just sit there and tell people what they're doing wrong, you need to rethink being a LAT in the first place. It's really not hard. I did it the other day, in great detail and helped the person who PMed me quite a bit. I've seen Crono do it countless times as well as other people.

Thanks bro.

/rant

Do you want me to baby you?
Okay let's give it a shot.

Dear Relic,

Your level doesn't seem appealing to me and other people, no pun intended.
I think it might be because it's organized in a sloppy way. I feel as though if you need to put more of a creative touch and really try to expand your ways of imagination into your levels. Your level isn't so bad, I just see so much potential, keep practicing, and keep up the good work.

Love Always,
Imperialistic

[Immolate]

Originally Posted by Imperialistic

Your sarcasm is retarded.



Do you want me to baby you?
Okay let's give it a shot.

Dear Relic,

Your level doesn't seem appealing to me and other people, no pun intended.
I think it might be because it's organized in a sloppy way. I feel as though if you need to put more of a creative touch and really try to expand your ways of imagination into your levels. Your level isn't so bad, I just see so much potential, keep practicing, and keep up the good work.

Love Always,
Imperialistic

Giving constructive criticism isn't babysitting. You should have just posted the the body of your faux letter in the first place without being such a complete arse :P

[DarkIceX]

Originally Posted by Imperialistic

Your sarcasm is retarded.



Do you want me to baby you?
Okay let's give it a shot.

Dear Relic,

Your level doesn't seem appealing to me and other people, no pun intended.
I think it might be because it's organized in a sloppy way. I feel as though if you need to put more of a creative touch and really try to expand your ways of imagination into your levels. Your level isn't so bad, I just see so much potential, keep practicing, and keep up the good work.

Love Always,
Imperialistic

I don't think you understand the concept of constructive criticism very well. You don't seem to be very good at typing out what you find wrong specifically, when you're trying to help people improve. Until you can do so without the idiotic attitude I suggest you forget about it and I will review the levels myself (as i remember you used to kiss my *** over my levels when I was at my prime in developing) and find other, more experienced LATs than yourself, who can give a review of a level without the bull**** you seem to be unable to avoid when you post.

I'm not taking offense to your constructive criticism, don't get me wrong, It's just I haven't seen any thus far except for "ur gras detel falz" and "itz slopi". All I've seen is crappy attitude and a bad attempt at seeming like you're superior. I'll take those two points into account (although I'm still not sure what's sloppy about it and how the grass detailing fails, again because you suck at giving constructive criticism,) but if you want to give me anymore points, I suggest you rethink your approach, once again.

"Love always",
Relic

If anyone else has any real constructive criticism to give me, feel free, but please don't emulate Imperialistic's failure, it doesn't help.

[Imperialistic]

Originally Posted by DarkIceX

I don't think you understand the concept of constructive criticism very well. You don't seem to be very good at typing out what you find wrong specifically, when you're trying to help people improve. Until you can do so without the idiotic attitude I suggest you forget about it and I will review the levels myself (as i remember you used to kiss my *** over my levels when I was at my prime in developing) and find other, more experienced LATs than yourself, who can give a review of a level without the bull**** you seem to be unable to avoid when you post.

I'm not taking offense to your constructive criticism, don't get me wrong, It's just I haven't seen any thus far except for "ur gras detel falz" and "itz slopi". All I've seen is crappy attitude and a bad attempt at seeming like you're superior. I'll take those two points into account (although I'm still not sure what's sloppy about it and how the grass detailing fails, again because you suck at giving constructive criticism,) but if you want to give me anymore points, I suggest you rethink your approach, once again.

"Love always",
Relic

If anyone else has any real constructive criticism to give me, feel free, but please don't emulate Imperialistic's failure, it doesn't help.

You seem to care that I give a hoot about you personally, I don't care if I'm offending if you assume it that way. On another note, you announcing that I worship(ed) you is a complete idiotic way of insulting me, and your noob translations of my speech is highly immature.

In no way am I trying to act condescending towards you I'm just flattered that you're taking the time to argue with me.

[Imperialistic]

*SORRY FOR THE DOUBLE POST*

On a real note, I'm deciding to be thoughtful for once.

I don't know how you or other people usually do their grass detail, but I like to make mine look sort of unpredictable and not so boring. I've uploaded an image of an example of a piece of my detailing.

I've uploaded an image of your level.
The Red Circles highlight a few stuff as listed:
Either
-Not Enough Detail
-Too boring
-Expand with it
-I don't understand it

[Lord Sephiroth]

If my opinion matters at all, I agree with -some- of what Imp is saying. A couple of the things he circled I don't have any major problems with, unless its drastically overused (mostly talking about the grass-on-grass off-levels that he circled).

I never really liked tables on outsides. Those types of things were meant for insides and it really tends to drag away from the level.

To be honest, I "like" what's being shown, but there are things to be improved upon. The biggest issue that I have is actually the trees that everyone has been praising. They just seem a little off to me in terms of mixing with the rest of the tileset. Like they draw attention away from anything else in the level. And when you put the two of them in such close proximity without having them properly combined, it just looks, for lack of a better term, sloppy, like someone dropped a couple of NPC trees around the level.

Just my take. I've never really seen the need for layers. In my opinion the layer editor is just a cop-out for LATs that don't know how to be creative with one layer.

[Imperialistic]

Originally Posted by Lord Sephiroth

my take. I've never really seen the need for layers. In my opinion the layer editor is just a cop-out for LATs that don't know how to be creative with one layer.

Well, I sort of agree with you here.

Layers can improve the levels of Graal in tremendous ways, but it can also be a cop-out for people without a good imagination and way to use it.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Lord Sephiroth

Just my take. I've never really seen the need for layers. In my opinion the layer editor is just a cop-out for LATs that don't know how to be creative with one layer.

That's silly. It's an advancement of technology in terms of Graal. That's like saying GS2 is a copout for those who can't figure out how to be creative with GS1. What about those who ARE creative with one layer? Wouldn't more layers just mean more creativity? Also, even if it is a copout, if it achieves something above the skill level that they would achieve with only one layer, isn't that good too?

Layers don't just offer more possibility with levels, but it simplifies tiles. You no longer need to use tons of images to draw things over tiles. No need for treetop images. No more need for tons of tiles for each grass, dirt, water or whatever a corner of the house will be drawn over. And for the lazy, it means that it will just look better because players don't have to see such simple tile errors.

Also Fry, I had to work with Gonstruct earlier to edit scripts in a layered level, and I noticed a very annoying bug: Every time you opened a level in Gonstruct, it appends an empty line to each NPC's script. So after opening a level a few times, each script ends up with a ton of empty lines. The level I was working with had like 70 NPCs in it... so ya, that was a ton of empty lines to clean out and actually made me resort to editing the level via notepad instead.