Log mass messages

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by MysticX2X

Well I know there will be certain gp's who will jail you after looking through the logs to see you used a couple cuss words 12 hours before.

Maybe I meant that there will be a 24/7 watch on mass messages now which seems really inappropriate from a players standpoint.

If policd are jailing for a swear word said 12 hours ago, then that is a problem with the staff team, not this system. Right now, players can mass out whatever they want and uncheck all admins, which makes it very, very difficult for us to confirm whether someone said something.

Graal's communication is not private. No servers log PMs, but there is no guarantee that Stefan doesn't log them somewhere. Mass PMs are already logged on Era, but in a way that is imperfect. In addition to that, we have a system that automatically checks for certain keywords in masses. The chat of certain players is logged, and we monitor the chat of all players for certain keywords.

Masses are absolutely not private. I disagree with logging PMs and even chat because I believe it's an invasion of privacy, but I don't see how people can argue that masses are private. They just aren't.

[MysticX2X]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

If policd are jailing for a swear word said 12 hours ago, then that is a problem with the staff team, not this system. Right now, players can mass out whatever they want and uncheck all admins, which makes it very, very difficult for us to confirm whether someone said something.

If that's the case, then I could imagine that mass messages can be made where they will send to an rc no matter what (granted that the rc has mass messages enabled). Again, it would be ridiculously huge to log pm's 24/7, unless you want to manually wipe it every day..

Masses are absolutely not private. I disagree with logging PMs and even chat because I believe it's an invasion of privacy, but I don't see how people can argue that masses are private. They just aren't.

Yes, I realize that. I just do not like the idea of being watched over 24/7 since GP's these days will jail you whether the report is unwarranted or not. (Sup UN).

[Scary_Sock]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

If policd are jailing for a swear word said 12 hours ago, then that is a problem with the staff team, not this system. Right now, players can mass out whatever they want and uncheck all admins, which makes it very, very difficult for us to confirm whether someone said something.

Graal's communication is not private. No servers log PMs, but there is no guarantee that Stefan doesn't log them somewhere. Mass PMs are already logged on Era, but in a way that is imperfect. In addition to that, we have a system that automatically checks for certain keywords in masses. The chat of certain players is logged, and we monitor the chat of all players for certain keywords.

Masses are absolutely not private. I disagree with logging PMs and even chat because I believe it's an invasion of privacy, but I don't see how people can argue that masses are private. They just aren't.

Thats were GP's come in to take action against that. Remember, where not only relying on this system, but we rely on GP's to handle the other issues that may not be logged. Players can also report harmful mass-messages, and we can also put a couple of "Curse" words as keywords.

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Crono

The only people supporting it and how it should work are not even players. It's pretty pathetic how low the quality of GP's has gone, to the point where everything has to be automated.

We're not asking for automation, simply logs. If player xyz claims that player abc is harassing him, how can we check that?

It's completely killed the fun of the game, from ingame censors to GP's on power trips for the most minor things on UN.

If the ability not to say **** all you want is killing the game for you, then something is seriously ****ed up.

Logs of any kind should only be accessable by a select few.

Yes, like the police whose job it is to reverse scams, monitor trades, and watch for rule-breakers and harassers.

Originally Posted by MysticX2X

If that's the case, then I could imagine that mass messages can be made where they will send to an rc no matter what (granted that the rc has mass messages enabled). Again, it would be ridiculously huge to log pm's 24/7, unless you want to manually wipe it every day..

Where are you pulling this statistic from? I already said that we already log masses on Era, and that it is absolutely not ridiculously huge. I guarantee you our item log, which is stored in one place, grows FAR faster than any mass log would.

Yes, I realize that. I just do not like the idea of being watched over 24/7 since GP's these days will jail you whether the report is unwarranted or not. (Sup UN).

I can't control Unholy Nation. If they choose to look through masses for the wrong reasons, that's fine. You should try to get their rules changed, in that case.

Originally Posted by Scary_Sock

Thats were GP's come in to take action against that. Remember, where not only relying on this system, but we rely on GP's to handle the other issues that may not be logged. Players can also report harmful mass-messages, and we can also put a couple of "Curse" words as keywords.

How can GPs do anything when they don't receive the mass message, and players don't report them?

[Scary_Sock]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

How can GPs do anything when they don't receive the mass message, and players don't report them?

There is something bound to happen. If this is really the case, then logging every mass message would be necessary.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

We're not asking for automation, simply logs. If player xyz claims that player abc is harassing him, how can we check that?

If the ability not to say **** all you want is killing the game for you, then something is seriously ****ed up.

Yes, like the police whose job it is to reverse scams, monitor trades, and watch for rule-breakers and harassers.

I know, it's just that so many GP related things are being automated these days that it just feels like big brother is always watching. If a player claims to be harassed they will either send logs, screenshots, or any other form of proof like they have for the past, what, 10+ years?

The GP's on UN have cranked up on punishing any form of being naughty. From what I remember a week or two ago, even the slightest harassment would be punished. I like how you ignored "...to GP's on power trips for the most minor things on UN." and only focused on the ingame filter part just to try to get a quick stab at me. If I want to PM my friend **** that's my private business anyway. If it's a problem he or she would go to the GP's.

I wouldn't want GP's or any other low level staff reading through my logs, thank you very much.

[Bell]

Originally Posted by Crono

I know, it's just that so many GP related things are being automated these days that it just feels like big brother is always watching. If a player claims to be harassed they will either send logs, screenshots, or any other form of proof like they have for the past, what, 10+ years?

The GP's on UN have cranked up on punishing any form of being naughty. From what I remember a week or two ago, even the slightest harassment would be punished. I like how you ignored "...to GP's on power trips for the most minor things on UN." and only focused on the ingame filter part just to try to get a quick stab at me. If I want to PM my friend **** that's my private business anyway. If it's a problem he or she would go to the GP's.

I wouldn't want GP's or any other low level staff reading through my logs, thank you very much.

As a GP for years I have to agree to a certain point that many things are too automated but I also have to blame the change in attitude of the playerbase. While screenshots and histories are ok as 'additional evidence.' They should never be used as the sole evidence. They are too often altered or submitted to look like the accused is doing something wrong.

Almost every player now accused of wrongdoing demands to see proof. If you show them proof provided by their accuser they claim its faked and provide their own faked history to contradict it. If you show them a server provided history such as mass message histories its pretty much indisputeable.

However, I do not believe that any actions should be taken by Graal staff over things said in pm's. There is the ignore feature attached to the playerlist and it should always be the first step taken if you don't want to read what someone says to you privately. By blocking them it forces them to start harrassing you publicly which can then be seen by the staff and other players. Hence backing up your story.

This is a public online game. People are going to get into arguments with another person. People are going to get angry enough at times to go off on them in anger or frustration. Half the time they've made up and are buddies again before a GP can even resolve the issue. The rest are usually people that harass everyone and get a history of it and should be banned or jailed. We are not babysitters or protectors of your delicate psyche. If you can't learn to ignore someone and insist on responding back in kind then you shouldn't be complaining. Take responsibility for some of your own actions. Life isn't going to always defend you when things go downhill.

Random rant courtesy of Bell

[Frankie]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

How can GPs do anything when they don't receive the mass message, and players don't report them?

so what you're saying is that GPs would be randomly reading through mass message logs to try and find things they deem inappropriate? I understand going through the logs when trying to resolve an issue, but going through them at your own leisure to find people to punish is just pathetic.

Originally Posted by Crono

Other games have professional and hired teams of staff to be trusted with these logs, Graal doesn't. Local staff should definitely not be given such rights whatsoever if such a system were to be implemented. As someone that actually plays the damn game I can assure you that harassment isn't really that big of a problem outside a select few who probably bring it onto themselves anyway.



If PM's weren't intended to be used privately why call them "private messages"? There's probably trash people shouldn't be talking about through e-mail, AIM, MSN, Yahoo, etc but hey apparently thats ok because it's not Graal right? One of the only points going for Graal is that it can be used as a chatroom for people who are just really bored (or people who realize Graal has no real gameplay left LELELEL), don't try to kill that too.

I agree 100 percent with both of these statements. couldn't have said it any better.