Please Welcome Xor

[Bell]

Development experience is not necessary as a PWA, its just considered additional useful experience. If they are able to spot a problem and are able to fix it, such as with gmaps, it just saves finding someone with that ability. Most of those things you just learn though while you are a PWA.

At times I find it to be a disadvantage to actually understand it. Such as during inspections. We should be going on a server to look around just as a brand new shiny newb that has no clue as to how Graal works. We play the server, see how it feels and make our judgements from there. Its up to the GST to tear them into little pieces and see if they actually know what they're doing or not.

[Loriel]

Originally Posted by bell

its up to the gst to tear them into little pieces and see if they actually know what they're doing or not.

[Scary_Sock]

Alright then, Bell.

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by Loriel

The only reason you need to hire your pals instead of people who send in an application is that everybody here is at best a volunteer and consequently always less professional and disciplined than the people you are comparing them to in your funny job market/major sports leagues analogies. It is way more useful that you know someone to whatever extent than that they manage to fill out the application form without drooling all over it if you want to judge how they will perform in any given position.

The whole nepotism accusation is pretty much as easy to make as calling everybody *****ing in this thread whining freeloaders who cannot be bothered to actually contribute to Graal in any significant way and instead pine for the presumably easy glory of a global staff position.

i don't see where you get to go making rash generalizations about everyone who has applied to be PWA thus far. i agree that it's better to know someone and hire them since you'll know how they will perform on the job better than someone you are only in acquaintance with - but that doesn't make them all unreliable, or right for the job

i don't know xor at all, so i can't support any type of favoritism in the hiring procedure, but the fact remains that the PWA clearly knew who he was when i, and many others, did not. it means they have to had been spending the time getting to know him through graal-a more preferable way in their opinion-but then why didn't they take the time to get to know all the other applicants or potential members on graal too?

[Loriel]

Originally Posted by Hiro

i don't see where you get to go making rash generalizations

I tried to not actually do that and instead just point out how easy it is!

the PWA clearly knew who he was when i, and many others, did not.

Good thing they dictate their hiring process, then, right?

it means they have to had been spending the time getting to know him through graal-a more preferable way in their opinion-but then why didn't they take the time to get to know all the other applicants or potential members on graal too?

It is pretty ridiculous to assume that they picked out a dude at random and started paying attention to him over the applications forum just to spite you. It strikes me as much more plausible that Xor happened to have to deal with some PWA a lot through no fault of either of the involved parties and some sort of sufficient acquaintance was built up entirely lacking any malicious intent.

Edit: Wait why am I defending the PWA again; down with the oppressive global administration and their ridiculous hiring practices, etc.

[fowlplay4]

Originally Posted by Hiro

i don't know xor at all, so i can't support any type of favoritism in the hiring procedure, but the fact remains that the PWA clearly knew who he was when i, and many others, did not. it means they have to had been spending the time getting to know him through graal-a more preferable way in their opinion-but then why didn't they take the time to get to know all the other applicants or potential members on graal too?

Why waste time getting to know people that will probably just get on your nerves.

[BigBear3]

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

just get on your nerves.

[Scary_Sock]

Originally Posted by Loriel

I tried to not actually do that and instead just point out how easy it is!



Good thing they dictate their hiring process, then, right?



It is pretty ridiculous to assume that they picked out a dude at random and started paying attention to him over the applications forum just to spite you. It strikes me as much more plausible that Xor happened to have to deal with some PWA a lot through no fault of either of the involved parties and some sort of sufficient acquaintance was built up entirely lacking any malicious intent.

Edit: Wait why am I defending the PWA again; down with the oppressive global administration and their ridiculous hiring practices, etc.

I might as well be honest on what will happen. This thread will close because of the flaming, and no one will speak of it again. If it DOES come up again, that thread will be deleted for another flame war, and deleted threads can NOT be re-created. But I agree, no one ever knew who Xor was, and I think that should be part of being a PWA to be known well on the community.

[BigBear3]

Originally Posted by Scary_Sock

I might as well be honest on what will happen. This thread will close because of the flaming, and no one will speak of it again. If it DOES come up again, that thread will be deleted for another flame war, and deleted threads can NOT be re-created. But I agree, no one ever knew who Xor was, and I think that should be part of being a PWA to be known well on the community.

Kinda like Barack Obama.

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by Loriel

It is pretty ridiculous to assume that they picked out a dude at random and started paying attention to him over the applications forum just to spite you. It strikes me as much more plausible that Xor happened to have to deal with some PWA a lot through no fault of either of the involved parties and some sort of sufficient acquaintance was built up entirely lacking any malicious intent.

Edit: Wait why am I defending the PWA again; down with the oppressive global administration and their ridiculous hiring practices, etc.

please don't try and pin me up as one of those "anti-PWA dictator" bull****ters, that isn't the point, and i'm not trying to defend my ego on having applied, because i haven't. the point is that applications are pretty useless, since it's been made perfectly clear that they aren't the preferred method of PWA hiring (or any other global staff i suspect). then why are they even on here? why did they have a bunch of people apply when they didn't want to hire people like that anyways? it gets people's hopes up when they apply for something, so to see that it isn't preferred, and it isn't even necessarily required; makes it difficult to reason out why they applied in the first place? it's like a big list of people who didn't make it so far

also, in support for xen, when i came back to the forums and saw that there was an application section specifically for global staff, i was pretty excited. since graal was being portrayed as a development platform, it made sense that the people on the forums would be the active ones, the developers and such. so having them apply for a global position would be good - the community could comment on the people, the globals could post in support or for against someone if they wanted too, maybe even making the thread for another person to see how the community thought about it; it was a good open process. seeing how things have currently happened though, it seems i have misjudged what i saw

[Lyndzey]

Originally Posted by Hiro

the point is that applications are pretty useless, since it's been made perfectly clear that they aren't the preferred method of PWA hiring (or any other global staff i suspect). then why are they even on here? why did they have a bunch of people apply when they didn't want to hire people like that anyways? it gets people's hopes up when they apply for something, so to see that it isn't preferred, and it isn't even necessarily required; makes it difficult to reason out why they applied in the first place? it's like a big list of people who didn't make it so far

I agree completely. The application forum for PWA is unnecessary. It was used by HoudiniMan, and now that he's gone, it is pretty much worthless.

[Vima]

congrats Xor

[Loriel]

Originally Posted by Hiro

the point is that applications are pretty useless, since it's been made perfectly clear that they aren't the preferred method of PWA hiring

Oh, yeah, I totally do not disagree with that, hence the edit.

since graal was being protrayed as a development platform, it made sense that the people on the forums would be the active ones, the developers and such. so having them apply for a global position would be good

I think it is a pretty big fallacy that is at the root of what is wrong with Graal that you need to be appointed into a position of power before you can start doing useful work. Not disagreeing, though, I guess.

[Robin]

Your English is better than my German, Ben

On topic though, I can't say I either agree nor disagree with how players are feeling, but can anyone, truly offer suggestion as to who would be better suited, in a completely and totally non-biased way?

Loriel is right, nepotism is rife in Graal, but it's because you tend to trust people you know, rather than any old person.

Which would you rather, someone who could be trusted with that much power, or someone who is more popular?

Graal isn't a democracy, and hopefully never will be, otherwise nothing would get done at all.

I don't want to have to vote on whether the next client release includes Flying Technology, say, or not, it just should, or shouldn't, depending on completion.

[Clockwork]

Originally Posted by Robin

On topic though, I can't say I either agree nor disagree with how players are feeling, but can anyone, truly offer suggestion as to who would be better suited, in a completely and totally non-biased way?

Which would you rather, someone who could be trusted with that much power, or someone who is more popular?

Someone one person trusts or someone whom is popular and can be known to be trusted? I'd think the latter. It's not really popularity anyways. Anyone whom has worked long enough has a list in their head of who does what and how well.

[MysticX2X]

Originally Posted by Lyndzey

No, that's not what I am saying at all. I don't think that an application is the best way to go about choosing someone for a global staff position. If the PWA wanted to only hire people they like, I'm sure they could have them send in an application and hire them that way.

No, but an application helps describe how a person will do. I have no clue how Xor was hired but I can also feel how insulted the people who applied did when their applications were overlooked by somebody who didn't have to apply. It doesn't matter of your experiences about some former Classic GP, as an application has proven to be more effective in most cases.

For your previous response, this isn't like the real world yes, but a real world job analogy should be no different in choosing people. Not everybody knows everyone's capabilities and an application can and will show that. It's not that I don't think Xor isn't qualified though.

Also, I really don't feel that it should be a prerequisite, or be a large influence, to hold some high staff position on the forums. I've seen several helpful people on the forums that could be good for PWA that have been heading up UC servers, but aren't high staff positions on Classic Servers.

So far this thread has gotten a lot of negative feedback from the community, and it's not just out of jealousy,.

[James]

I think people just feel betrayed because they took the time the time out of their day to fill out an application and are not even being considered. I'm surprised the application forums were put up anyway. This is nothing new though, this has been happening since the dawn of Graal.

[Robin]

Originally Posted by Clockwork

Someone one person trusts or someone whom is popular and can be known to be trusted? I'd think the latter. It's not really popularity anyways. Anyone whom has worked long enough has a list in their head of who does what and how well.

More popular doesn't necessarily mean more trustworthy, but then they made me a global when I was sixteen years old. I was an absolute mess

[Lyndzey]

Originally Posted by MysticX2X

It doesn't matter of your experiences about some former Classic GP, as an application has proven to be more effective in most cases.

Really? When?

My experience with the former GP was just an example. There are several more I could go off, but I'm not going to start naming names of successes and failures on here. I was a global staff member for years, and I learned that an application is not the way to go when it comes to hiring people on this game.

Like I said before, HoudiniMan is the one who opened up the application process, and he is no longer the PWA Admin. Bell is the PWA Admin now, and will choose to hire people in the way that she feels is the most effective method.

[Galdor]

Originally Posted by Robin

More popular doesn't necessarily mean more trustworthy, but then they made me a global when I was sixteen years old. I was an absolute mess

I was global when I was... Ive forgot, but I was never allowed rc or other stuffs that would require trust ... I was like a random player but with a fancy tag that had the power to report problems to the real globals haha xD

But gratz Xor :]

[Loriel]

Originally Posted by Robin

when I was sixteen years old

Come on, you have nothing on me~

[Lyndzey]

Originally Posted by Loriel

Come on, you have nothing on me~

14 years old and Game Master? Very impressive, I don't think anyone will be able to beat that.

[Scary_Sock]

Jesus, alot more people became a global then I ever thought.

I still have a "Dream" to become a "Global" some day.

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by Lyndzey

14 years old and Game Master? Very impressive, I don't think anyone will be able to beat that.

ah, the silly decisions of stefan and unixmad, what will they do next?

[Rufus]

I was once a global in my dreams. When it started turning a little less about 'saving Graal' and a little more about systematically fixing the servers that newbie developers break (y'know, the servers that have no chance at making it past the 6 month mark) it rapidly changed into a nightmare.