Classic off list = BAD

[Oni]

I was thinking about it, and isnt it kind of bad for classic to be off the playerlist?

They say moving it off the list will give the staff some time to really fix the server in peace. And thats NORMALLY true

but the way i see it in todays world, now the staff and managers get to be extra lazy cause they have NO pressure at all, and since theres such little staff, i doubt it will ever get done cause people lose motivation and do other stuff.

What do you guys think???

[fowlplay4]

That no one will ever be happy no matter what direction it takes, but that's been Graal lately.

[MysticX2X]

Bell said she would keep be checking in from time to time on progress so it might not fail in the end.

[Oni]

but hasn't bell been checkin in from time to time for years and look at classic now

[DustyPorViva]

Honestly I don't think it matters either way.

[BlackSolider]

While taking the server off the list might have more cons than pros (namely it reinforces the public's perception of the server, thereby making it harder to promote a comeback if/when it happens; ) I don't think it will be a massive problem if Bell stands by her claim of cracking the whip and making staff changes if things don't improve.

[Luda]

Classic is dead with the current management.

[Mark Sir Link]

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

nonsense

so Classic's comeback will be contrary to every other server that has undergone the same process.

[BlackSolider]

Not sure if you quoted me correctly there mr kevin, but I do think there is a possibility it works out if done correctly. My honest opinion is that it's too late and that the server is already beyond saving, but one can always hope, no?

[DarkCloud_PK]

I honestly do too think it is beyond saving. From 2004 to 2009, that's just too much damage to cover, too much stagnant behavior and history of bad decisions.

Perhaps if there was an elite dev force with their eyes not on glory, but on classic, that could all work together for the goal of fixing up classic to compete in todays serverlist, no matter in what form, old or new stuff. Then it might have a chance, but that would be a miracle in itself.

[Bell]

My final goal is to produce a miracle. Quite honestly what do we have to lose that hasn't already been lost.

[DarkCloud_PK]

Originally Posted by Bell

Quite honestly what do we have to lose that hasn't already been lost.

The dwindling handful of people willing to help classic succeed.

[Terazel Tenjin]

Originally Posted by Bell

My final goal is to produce a miracle. Quite honestly what do we have to lose that hasn't already been lost.

Not to be a complete Negative Nancy, but what there is to lose are 1.) time that could be better spent on a different project and 2.) server slot.

Edit: Also find it kind of funny how all kinds of people are making the "it's been dead" call now when it's been called as early as 2006. But at least it's finally getting recognition. Always takes that step back to see the whole picture.

[Mark Sir Link]

shut up jive turkey, people have been pointing out the flaws long before 2006 when you made your "triumphant" return to graal.

[Terazel Tenjin]

Hey Kevin what happened to Atesis?

[Luda]

The people who just recently said that could of said it back in 06 also.

[Bell]

Originally Posted by Terazel Tenjin

Not to be a complete Negative Nancy, but what there is to lose are 1.) time that could be better spent on a different project and 2.) server slot.

Edit: Also find it kind of funny how all kinds of people are making the "it's been dead" call now when it's been called as early as 2006. But at least it's finally getting recognition. Always takes that step back to see the whole picture.

1. There is always going to be someone wanting to restore Classic anyway so those on the project probably wouldn't work on a different one anyway.

2. I wasn't aware there was a specific number of Classic tabbed slots.

3. Dead is such a relative term. While I've even joked about 'last one to leave, turn out the lights." Other servers have also been called dead long before their actual demise. In a few cases the servers made a comeback just before total extinction. I think saying Classic being in torpor is a fitting description for now.

[Darklux]

Is there an alternative to the hidden- tab and ongoing development under the same admins?
I don't think so, Classic can be hardly called playable at the moment - especially due the lack of quests.

And why should the devteam/administration be changed? Certainly won't speed up the development or increase the count of developers. Having a big staff is nothing easy on graal atm, too many playerworlds, too few players.

[BlackSolider]

I assume you haven't been around the past few years, so I'll sum this up.

Right now we have two managers; one has been manager for two or three months now (I think; time flies,) while the other has been for a few years now.

During those few years, Classic has not improved significantly at all. Minor changes were added over time by a dev department that was essentially a revolving door, but nothing significant. A lot of people see the server's current problems as the fault of the 'elder' manager because he did little to solve them over a period of several years.

It's kind of like the "three strikes" rule in baseball, only he's on ten strikes but hasn't been called out yet.

[MysticX2X]

What a lobbyist.

[mistral_007]

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

I assume you haven't been around the past few years, so I'll sum this up.

Right now we have two managers; one has been manager for two or three months now (I think; time flies,) while the other has been for a few years now.

During those few years, Classic has not improved significantly at all. Minor changes were added over time by a dev department that was essentially a revolving door, but nothing significant. A lot of people see the server's current problems as the fault of the 'elder' manager because he did little to solve them over a period of several years.

It's kind of like the "three strikes" rule in baseball, only he's on ten strikes but hasn't been called out yet.

Add:
Maybe we all know who said, whoever havent sinned should throw the first stone. We shouldnt really blame Storm or any lat admin since no one better stepped up and did a better job.

[MysticX2X]

Originally Posted by mistral_007

Add:
Maybe we all know who said, whoever havent sinned should throw the first stone. We shouldnt really blame Storm or any lat admin since no one better stepped up and did a better job.

Most of the blame will end up on the manager for any server. They are responsible for making it successful.

[mistral_007]

Originally Posted by MysticX2X

Most of the blame will end up on the manager for any server. They are responsible for making it successful.

Perhaps. But we sucked in finding someone who fit better. And no, 4 ppl wanting mr Frog or someone random as manager doesnt count...

[MysticX2X]

Originally Posted by mistral_007

Perhaps. But we sucked in finding someone who fit better. And no, 4 ppl wanting mr Frog or someone random as manager doesnt count...

Perhaps it could be that we sucked in removing the old one.

[BlackSolider]

Or perhaps that people couldn't get him removed, despite several attempts.

[mistral_007]

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

Or perhaps that people couldn't get him removed, despite several attempts.

With valid reasons, and reasons how someone could do a better job is presented and a lot of people backing it up it's not impossible. I don't really know anyone that have the time, quality, support, will to do anything better.

I havent seen any big serious tryings. Stop playing the server until that person is changed is another option, if there's a lot of people doing it, it will have an effect.

My point is, why blame someone, everyone is at blame. For example could someone potenially have gotten the manager post before Storm. And i'm not saying storm is good/bad.

[DarkCloud_PK]

Storm was nearly invulnerable from being fired up until the PWA recently were allowed to start making significant changes under Bell. Even then, it is hard to even convince to the PWA that he needs to go. You can see this by him surviving multiple reviews one after another a few months back. Despite his record and negative rating of him, he still retained his position.

In summary, no, noone could have simply replaced him years ago, as there was noone around that would fire him, I'm not even sure that there is a person that would today.

Is Storm to blame for Classic's state now?
Yes and no. Storm didn't directly cause the problems regarding content and direction, this was the constant development administration changes. Whenever an admin change happened, the server would normally be developed in a different direction that usually invovled needlessly redoing what has already been done and not using nearly done or even finished content of the previous administration.

Storm's fault lies in 3 areas.
1. Notoriously inactive.
2. Not a very good 'frontman', if you look at other server managers, they are very adept at PR, and constantly promoting the server and doing good PR with players. Storm doesn't do that, hell, neither manager really posts here unless they are threatened.
3.Simply not controlling administrators. I am pretty sure not one single admin has been fired/removed/demoted under Storm. Coming from experience, they are pretty much able to come and go as they please. Unless they did something extremely malicious, an administrator on Classic would have perfect 'job security'. Dev Admins were able to vastly alter and in ways, damage the server(think back to when Hell Raven was going to redo _everything_, we lost over a year of dev time under him, and we had more devs then aswell.). Storm should have been present in these situations, making sure a basic direction was followed and no needless revamps and reconstructions out of the sake of glory were made.

[BlackSolider]

Sounds about right.

[TESTRETIS]

I think DC just summed everything up.