@ Pretty Much Every Server

[Mark Sir Link]

I got bored during the day today so I decided to log onto Graal (have just logged on a few times over the past few days for the first time in a few months) and I decided to check out some of the servers I never bothered to give a chance.

I was disgusted.

No matter what server I went on, there was no clear indication of what to do next. I would appear in an OSL and pretty much be on my own.

It's dumb to design servers without giving players clear or even vague directions. To just throw them into a level to find things on their own creates a huge stumbling block that would seem very unappealing to newbs.

The counterpoint most people will bring up is that these servers have communities, but if my explorations of today were any indication, they don't have very good communities.

Steadily sending mass messages every 5 minutes reading "where do I get guns?" I finally got a positive response from Nataxo about 30 minutes later.


On Era and Zodiac I was constantly being killed the moment I left OSL.

On both servers, I had absolutely no idea where to go. After wandering around on Zodiac I apparently fell down a well and walked to some sort of Zorbi area where some Zorbi said something like "the zorbi king is looking for humans to help blah blah blah" so I went to the only building that looked like a castle and I couldn't get in. Thanks for the great gameplay hints.

On Unholy Nation I appear at OSL and am either killed or frozen or any other sort of bizarre effect caused by an NPC I can't get because I will never be able to get past these players. On Unholy Nation I once again found absolutely no indication of where I should be going to gain health or items.

On Era, people always tell me to go do jobs to get money but there is nothing telling me where these jobs are and it seems like you need to pay money to start just about all of them.


These issues will probably cause the playercount to remain inflexible. I don't see why anyone would be interested in laying down money to start playing a game that makes no sense and doesn't even provide a general guideline of what you should be doing.

Ideally all of these servers would be sent back to Development and removed from the Classic tab but that would probably be financial suicide.

Since developers only seem interested in working on Classic servers the chance of a new server coming along that isn't completely terrible seems to be 0 percent (LOL WHILE WE'RE FIXING THINGS LET'S FIX THE FORUMS SO YOU CAN USE PERCENT SIGNS).

I can't imagine Graal is gaining many new players with most of the high population servers in a state that doesn't allow new players to ease into or begin gameplay easily, which is probably also causing financial strain.

The only short-term solution that could really be implemented is a players guide created for these servers that are practically shoved down a players throat so they can actually find out what to do.


P.S: Don't tell me the presence of a community offsets the lack of having the game tell you where to go, because it appears the majority of the communities on these servers are hugely unwilling to help you unless you were hoping they'd just kill you over and over again.

[DustyPorViva]

UN is full of insane NPC's only meant to annoy other players. God forbid if you have a poor graphics card when someone decides to play "pokemon" with all the players in the level.

[LordSquirt]

I would think the purpose of some of the servers is for you, the player, to explore on your own. What fun is it if everything is given to you. I think it's pretty cool walking around the GMAP and looking at all the things one can possibly do. Also, if you have questions that what FAQs are for. If you need help have questions you PM them.

[Exhausted]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

UN is full of insane NPC's only meant to annoy other players

Death to the Clap NPC. Everytime a random noob gets it they spam it to people and it's literally impossible to hold a conversation if they're persistent.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by LordSquirt

I would think the purpose of some of the servers is for you, the player, to explore on your own. What fun is it if everything is given to you. I think it's pretty cool walking around the GMAP and looking at all the things one can possibly do. Also, if you have questions that what FAQs are for. If you need help have questions you PM them.

Well there's a difference between exploring on your own, and being thrown into a world with absolutely no clue what to do. I can explore the world all I want on my own, but I'd like a general direction at least so I'm not stuck exploring the other 90% of the world that has absolutely no purpose.

[Frankie]

I have some neat ideas that can make Era more newbie friendly.

I'll make a thread in a bit.

[Nataxo]

Originally Posted by Mark Sir Link

Steadily sending mass messages every 5 minutes reading "where do I get guns?" I finally got a positive response from Nataxo about 30 minutes later.

Sorry I couldnt help you before... I have my mass messege turned off due to the sellings spamm . It was very brave for you to come to a gangs elevator to look for help .

On Era, people always tell me to go do jobs to get money but there is nothing telling me where these jobs are and it seems like you need to pay money to start just about all of them.

In case you wanna come back, here's a guide. www.era-wiki.wikidot.com/jobs

0 percent (LOL WHILE WE'RE FIXING THINGS LET'S FIX THE FORUMS SO YOU CAN USE PERCENT SIGNS).

Agreed :P

[p2p_Sir_Link]

Originally Posted by Nataxo

It was very brave for you to come to a gangs elevator to look for help .

LOL so that's where I was?

[Nataxo]

Yup lol, in fact it was the most dangerous place in era at the moment xD

[CharlieM]

PM Faqs when they are on for era. I answer every question that comes my way.. But yes servers need tutorials. I believe that is one thing required for new servers now

[Frankie]

Originally Posted by CharlieM

PM Faqs when they are on for era. I answer every question that comes my way.. But yes servers need tutorials. I believe that is one thing required for new servers now

new players to Graal might not even know how to open the player list or PM an FAQ. you can't assume that every new player to Era already has experience with Graal.

[Elizabeth]

I'll gladly answer questions that are asked on UN. I'm always reading mass messages and PMs almost as soon as I get them.
See, our management think that they'll just release a ton of NPCs and hope that it'll bring up the playercount. All of our events consist of a new NPC being released, and everyone has to have it to add on to their collection.
I can't stand most of the NPCs. They're annoying, and they're always being abused. I once dropped a hat by mistake, and of course a person shot me with a web right away (which keeps you from moving) and they took it.

[jacob_bald6225]

I concur If I didn't have lifetime classic I wouldn't subscribe to any of these servers.

[fowlplay4]

Did you try the other two exits out of Zodiac's OSL? Other than that I am fully aware of the lack of direction for newbies and would like to push that as one of main focuses for Zodiac V2.

[Gambet]

Stefan made that really nice tutorial system for Zone where the game gives you directions as you approach certain objects (like vehicles, outfit terminals, teleporters, etc.). It's quite impressive.

[Soala]

Originally Posted by Mark Sir Link

On Era and Zodiac I was constantly being killed the moment I left OSL.

LOL SO TRUE.
They never bothered to fix that or do anything about that.
I guess that's why I never bothered to play them aswell. Maybe a bit Era, but that was a long time ago.

[LoneAngelIbesu]

A topic dedicated to complaining. How original.

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

A topic dedicated to complaining. How original.

a response that contributes to the thread

...wait

[p2p_Sir_Link]

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

A topic dedicated to complaining. How original.

I hope Stefan, Stephane, and the PWA don't take this same idiotic attitude, unless their goal is to kill Graal

[Frankie]

On Era and Zodiac I was constantly being killed the moment I left OSL.

on Zodiac I can see this being true, but on Era it's way over exaggerated. I don't see how you were being so killed easily unless you ran out and stood still making yourself an extremely vulnerable target. if you simply run away from the person shooting at you then there is a much higher chance at surviving. not to mention there are so many different no-pk buildings around unstick me that you can run into to avoid being killed.

it's different on Zodiac. you have all these spells that slow you down and freeze you in place which makes you an easy target when you leave osl. on Era, it's completely different. you really have to be beyond bad at Graal if you let yourself constantly get killed on Era upon leaving unstick me.

[Hiro]

quite frankly if you can't run away from the people who are level 50 and above or whatever and they also have swords and axes and such, then you are definitely going to get killed. run away until you get away and then level up or however it is you go about leveling and acquiring awesome weapons in zodiac and era or whatever server, and then kill them

get friends who have awesome stuff already if you wanna go about it the easy way, since RPGs only work if you spend time on it

[LoneAngelIbesu]

Originally Posted by p2p_Sir_Link

I hope Stefan, Stephane, and the PWA don't take this same idiotic attitude, unless their goal is to kill Graal

What do Stefan, Unixmad, and the PWAs have to do with it? If you're so upset that Classic servers don't have guides, then go complain to the managers.

Graal is a pretty static community, and Classic servers have existed for 10+ years. At least, Valikorlia has been around since the beginning. Do you honestly expect guides to be written now? Do you really think it's imperative that tutorials are scripted? And, in any case, why would you ask for them here, instead of going straight to the servers themselves?

[Inverness]

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

A topic dedicated to complaining. How original.

And naturally your first post involves complaining about the topic instead of contributing to it.

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

Do you really think it's imperative that tutorials are scripted?

Unlike you, I consider playerworlds to be games. And any modern decently made game will provide some form of direction and instruction on how to play.

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

And, in any case, why would you ask for them here, instead of going straight to the servers themselves?

Because that is what forums are for, if the playerworld staff don't use the forums then it's their own stupid fault they don't receive all the input they should be getting.

[acaremon02]

I agree with this thread.

This is going to sound stupid but,
we should treat newbies like newborn babies.
Assume that they have never played a video game before.
Teach them about which key does what -
how to move, how to open the inventory, how to slash, pick up bushes, how to use items..

And teach them where to go.
Many games have an exclaimation mark or a map marking on where the player should go/head towards.

I'm not sure if it's possible to script such things on Graal, but perhaps it'll be more helpful to new players.
Many are young and haven't played other computer games before,
some haven't interacted with so many people they haven't met before.
If I were a newbie on an mmorpg, I would be a bit frightened to ask others for help. There are a lot of rude people on mmo games, who could I possibly trust?

[zokemon]

Originally Posted by acaremon02

I'm not sure if it's possible to script such things on Graal, but perhaps it'll be more helpful to new players.
Many are young and haven't played other computer games before,
some haven't interacted with so many people they haven't met before.
If I were a newbie on an mmorpg, I would be a bit frightened to ask others for help. There are a lot of rude people on mmo games, who could I possibly trust?

It's actually more then possible, it's pretty easy. Most people just don't want to do it I guess.

[acaremon02]

About Newbies:

I don't know about you people but I know I'm not the most social person around. No, it's NOT that easy to trust people on Graal. The first time I logged on UN and Era, I get PK'd, made fun of for being a "newbie", and get shot at with weird NPC's. I haven't even said anything.. Would this make me WANT to ask for help, at all?

About Staff:

Staff on servers are divided, Development/FAQ/GP (development breaks down to GAT, NAT, LAT, etc) --
unlike on other MMORPG's where everyone is considered a Game Master.

Staff on servers are known for ignoring newbies if they are not FAQ, or pushing responsibilities around. Unprofessional, or UNPROFESSIONAL?

I think it's the developers duty to help ease new players into this unhealthy environment and help them understand this is how it works (;-_-) around here.

[Vima]

But I don't get it?
Almost every server out there have a "Newbie Course".
That should be enough!

[Soala]

Any server out there have this bunch of people who played for a long time and just don't want some new competition, so they just ignore newbies or just kill them.
Still on the exemple of Zodiac, anybody new or who didn't play Zodiac from the very start is getting killed in the first 30s of the game, and that's a real problem because only a few players stay and try to be strong, but it takes even more time to get there.

That's why most of them are not even bothered playing.

[Prozac]

Abour nine years ago when making the first version of Sanstrata, what came naturally to my mind was 'let's give the players something to do, small quests for beginners, collecting items, rewards for simple actions (killing npc baddies gave experience points) and then higher level quests and appropriate rewards'

and a strong community formed around that ...

community is but one of three strands that hold a server together, in my opinion, the other two are competition, and QUESTS.

Quests - something for the player to do regardless if any others happen to be around on whatever level they are in, something where action brings a reward, and they discover a story and how they are the main part in that tale

competition - events, sparring, etc but in a balanced fashion so that each player, however far along they are, has a moderatly fair advantage against any other player

community - this happens naturally and is between the players and their ability to interact with each other... sometimes npcs can help here such as trading items, ganis and such

but a world designed around quests and telling a story with a theme of 'collect the orbs of light and defeat this evil emporer to restore peace to the world' as a foundation ... and many people did feel strongly about that server in various ways. it was part of what gave it meaning and was something people cared about

[Cloven]

Originally Posted by alexandralove

Any server out there have this bunch of people who played for a long time and just don't want some new competition, so they just ignore newbies or just kill them.
Still on the exemple of Zodiac, anybody new or who didn't play Zodiac from the very start is getting killed in the first 30s of the game, and that's a real problem because only a few players stay and try to be strong, but it takes even more time to get there.

That's why most of them are not even bothered playing.

Between that, the ability for friends to power-level their noob friends, and questionable staff, I've never bothered sticking around.

[WaDaFack]

LOL UN shouldn't exist.. nor should Zodiac.
Stefan and unixmad can get fk'd up by the DMCA!

Anyways, if Stefan wants to get a higher player count, than he should actually hire professional developers which will bring good to Graal;i.e better graphics, scripts etc.
That being so, the game play + quality will be 10x better than it is now, therefor players being more interested in Graal!
Some major changes to the gelat system would be fine too >.>

[Hiro]

if cyberjourers is going to make another server, they will gold tab it so that they can make more money off subscriptions to pay the developers (and themselves) instead of allowing a mass of accounts that last forever which was the incentive to buy more than one account, which i guess doesn't make more money? ):

[LoneAngelIbesu]

Originally Posted by Inverness

Unlike you, I consider playerworlds to be games. And any modern decently made game will provide some form of direction and instruction on how to play.

... Because that is what forums are for, if the playerworld staff don't use the forums then it's their own stupid fault they don't receive all the input they should be getting.

You're the chief NAT on Valikorlia, in case you've forgotten. You should be perfectly capable of creating a tutorial, if you really think it's that important.

I really don't see what all the fuss is. When I first logged on to Zodiac, I believe there was a little tutorial quest. When I first logged on to UN, I learned pretty quickly what I was supposed to do. Graal servers aren't incredibly complicated or intricate.

What's ridiculous is that experienced players are always the ones saying that newbies wouldn't understand something. I don't remember the last time a newbie posted something like this.

EDIT: I'm not saying that I think tutorials are stupid idea, and should never be done. My opinion is that "Mark Sir Link" is severely underestimating the ability of new players to figure out what to do, and is exaggerating the assumed 'impact' not having tutorials and guides has on Graal's population and financial figures.

EDIT AGAIN: Also, even if these forums are meant for playerworld suggestions, such suggestions would more likely be quickly received and noted if they were given to the staff directly.

[SwimChao]

I haven't read the entire thread, but I think this is the product of bouncing from Manager to Manager, who are players that already know the function of their server; and really don't think about going back and making it new-player-savvy.

Edit: @ WaDaFack: This is playerworlds.

[Kamaeru]

Originally Posted by Prozac

Abour nine years ago when making the first version of Sanstrata, what came naturally to my mind was 'let's give the players something to do, small quests for beginners, collecting items, rewards for simple actions (killing npc baddies gave experience points) and then higher level quests and appropriate rewards'

and a strong community formed around that ...

community is but one of three strands that hold a server together, in my opinion, the other two are competition, and QUESTS.

Quests - something for the player to do regardless if any others happen to be around on whatever level they are in, something where action brings a reward, and they discover a story and how they are the main part in that tale

competition - events, sparring, etc but in a balanced fashion so that each player, however far along they are, has a moderatly fair advantage against any other player

community - this happens naturally and is between the players and their ability to interact with each other... sometimes npcs can help here such as trading items, ganis and such

but a world designed around quests and telling a story with a theme of 'collect the orbs of light and defeat this evil emporer to restore peace to the world' as a foundation ... and many people did feel strongly about that server in various ways. it was part of what gave it meaning and was something people cared about

I find it extremely unnerving that this post went almost ignored. This was a well put statement that I agree with completely.