The next Graal client

cbk1994 · #1 05-27-2009, 09:37 PM

It should have been released months ago. There is no reason to keep us waiting this long for updates that we've been needing, such as Intel support for Mac, external windows, clientside callstack, and all the other features.

Focus more on "sets" of updates so that you can actually finish them. You've been too busy adding more and more new features that you haven't released the "old" features yet.

Stop aiming for Graal v6 and aim for Graal v5.2.

Crow · #2 05-27-2009, 10:29 PM

I agree!

DustyPorViva · #3 05-27-2009, 10:31 PM

I agree. I don't see the need of only releasing the next big update instead of just giving the client minor updates that are really needed.

Tigairius · #4 05-27-2009, 10:44 PM

Well, the actual windows client isn't ready yet for the new version and there are quite a few other bugs still.

Crono · #5 05-27-2009, 10:45 PM

Fix external windows in v5.2 to not use the ugly skins, fix the positioning problems, and fix how it defaults the crappy scripted playerlist then release it.

Luda · #6 05-27-2009, 10:50 PM

editor with layers pls

Skyld · #7 05-27-2009, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigairius

Well, the actual windows client isn't ready yet for the new version and there are quite a few other bugs still.

My latest build of the Mac Intel 64-bit client is actually not too bad, it has a few minor bugs but nothing that stops gameplay.

Tigairius · #8 05-27-2009, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyld

My latest build of the Mac Intel 64-bit client is actually not too bad, it has a few minor bugs but nothing that stops gameplay.

Yea, the mac and linux ones are pretty up-to-date and ready to go. Except I don't think obj.trigger() is working in those yet (?) that's definitely something that needs to be addressed.

Biggest problem is the windows client since that's what most graal users use.

Tigairius · #9 05-27-2009, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono

crappy scripted playerlist

Actually, I plan to rescript the playerlist with Rage from UN to make it more friendly for people to use and more welcoming with the new client.

Things I would like to add in the new playerlist (please note that none of this has been approved by Stefan, and these are just my ideas):

Ability to embed YouTube videos in PMs (will be able to be disabled with an option).
Collapsing/Expanding groups (like buddies, guilds, etc).
Creating your own groups (instead of only having default: Staff, Buddies, Guild, Players)
Smoother UI including buttons for easy hyperlinking and adding smilies for PMs, etc.
Resizable PM windows (meaning you can click & drag that space in between the message & the text edit area and move it up and down to resize the PM... not sure how well I explained it).
Cleaner skin & smoother look
Other UI improvements.

Feel free to make a new thread outlining improvements you'd like to see in the new playerlist if you have some ideas.

All in all, once it's been rescripted, it should actually be nicer than the current external playerlist in the current version.

DustyPorViva · #10 05-27-2009, 11:22 PM

If external windows are a problem, I'd rather him put them off until later and just update the current client with some of the smaller additions he has made to the new one.

James · #11 05-27-2009, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luda

editor with layers pls

the newworld editor had support for layers, i still don't understand why it has not been made available.

DustyPorViva · #12 05-27-2009, 11:28 PM

Newworld editor didn't have support for layers. It had some pseudo-support. You designated a background tile and the tileset had transparency. It filled the transparent bits of tiles with the background tile. Only one background tile per level, so it wasn't very flexible.

James · #13 05-28-2009, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Newworld editor didn't have support for layers. It had some pseudo-support. You designated a background tile and the tileset had transparency. It filled the transparent bits of tiles with the background tile. Only one background tile per level, so it wasn't very flexible.

Really? I swear it had some kind of layering support. Regardless, Graal has been around too damn long. We should have had tile layering years ago.

Angel_Light · #14 05-28-2009, 04:10 AM

I saw a pic of a modded Gonstruct editor using layers although I acually never found the executable.

zokemon · #15 05-28-2009, 08:23 AM

If the external window bugs were fixed, I would have had the scripted level editor that uses external windows finished long ago.

Crono · #16 05-28-2009, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigairius

Actually, I plan to rescript the playerlist with Rage from UN to make it more friendly for people to use and more welcoming with the new client.

As long as you can make it look and feel like the current playerlist I'm cool with it.

Codein · #17 05-28-2009, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono

As long as you can make it look and feel like the current playerlist I'm cool with it.

Agreed.

cbk1994 · #18 05-28-2009, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono

As long as you can make it look and feel like the current playerlist I'm cool with it.

That would be ideal, actually, because it would be easier to provide updates.

The problem with their argument for scripted tools is that, while they may be easier to update, and work on all platforms, they come nowhere near to the quality of the external tools. There's nothing wrong with stuff being scripted into GS2 as long as no quality is lost.

Skyld · #19 05-28-2009, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigairius

Things I would like to add in the new playerlist (please note that none of this has been approved by Stefan, and these are just my ideas):

Ability to embed YouTube videos in PMs (will be able to be disabled with an option).
...
Smoother UI including buttons for easy hyperlinking and adding smilies for PMs, etc.

Feel free to make a new thread outlining improvements you'd like to see in the new playerlist if you have some ideas.

All in all, once it's been rescripted, it should actually be nicer than the current external playerlist in the current version.

Please do not over-complicate it though, the thing that's worst about the custom playerlist on UN is the pure amount of buttons it has that makes it ugly and confusing.

cbk1994 · #20 05-28-2009, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyld

Please do not over-complicate it though, the thing that's worst about the custom playerlist on UN is the pure amount of buttons it has that makes it ugly and confusing.

I agree with that, but I think that's just bad implementation. There is nothing wrong with adding features, but they could be better organized, rather then placed in a clutter (see Microsoft's latest "Ribbon" interface for an example of how NOT to do it).

Admins · #21 05-29-2009, 01:31 AM

The new windows version has new rendering (DirectX9), input, particle engine, playerlist+options+profiles replaced by scripted windows, new Flash support. That means a lot of testing, and we are currently focusing on mobile platforms which is slowing down the development of the windows version right now. It's making good progress though. The old playerlist was actually not that powerful, but easy to use. The new scripted playerlist will definitely be better, and thanks to the scripting it is easier to modify and extend so you will not need to wait 2 years for an update again. The same can be said about the scripted RC, staff can expand the functionality.

Frankie · #22 05-29-2009, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

playerlist+options+profiles replaced by scripted windows

please don't.

Skyld · #23 05-29-2009, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankie

please don't.

Too late. The beta clients have been doing this for a long time now. Options window and profiles are just as functional though, and the scripted playerlist will be receiving an overhaul.

Tigairius · #24 05-29-2009, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyld

Please do not over-complicate it though, the thing that's worst about the custom playerlist on UN is the pure amount of buttons it has that makes it ugly and confusing.

Oh, I agree completely. Like I said, I don't even have Stefan's permission to do any of this yet either.

cyan3 · #25 05-29-2009, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankie

please don't.

The current linux client has scripted playerlist, options and profiles and so does the windows client to an extent if you enable the scripted playerlist.

Frankie · #26 05-29-2009, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyan3

The current linux client has scripted playerlist, options and profiles and so does the windows client to an extent if you enable the scripted playerlist.

yes I know that.

but it seems like Stefan isn't even giving us a choice now with the scripted player list. I can't stand that one.

DustyPorViva · #27 05-29-2009, 02:35 AM

If scripted GUI's were more fine-tuned(in the code), I'd be more accepting of the scripted... accessories? But right now they seem sluggish and way more inaccurate than their OS counterparts.

Tigairius · #28 05-29-2009, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankie

yes I know that.

but it seems like Stefan isn't even giving us a choice now with the scripted player list. I can't stand that one.

That's because of how it's scripted, not because it was scripted. It'll get fixed, I agree with you, trust me.

cbk1994 · #29 05-29-2009, 03:43 AM

I hope the scripted playerlist retains the ability to dock, I've grown quite fond of it.

Cubes · #30 05-29-2009, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

The new windows version has new rendering (DirectX9), input, particle engine, playerlist+options+profiles replaced by scripted windows, new Flash support. That means a lot of testing, and we are currently focusing on mobile platforms which is slowing down the development of the windows version right now. It's making good progress though. The old playerlist was actually not that powerful, but easy to use. The new scripted playerlist will definitely be better, and thanks to the scripting it is easier to modify and extend so you will not need to wait 2 years for an update again. The same can be said about the scripted RC, staff can expand the functionality.

Any plans for the Android OS, I want to be able to play on a G1 :[

DustyPorViva · #31 05-29-2009, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbk1994

I hope the scripted playerlist retains the ability to dock, I've grown quite fond of it.

Should make it able to dock inside the Graal window(part of GUIcontainer, not GraalControl), that way it doesn't take up viewable gaming space, but eliminates the micro-management of positioning and controlling it outside the Graal window.

cbk1994 · #32 05-29-2009, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Should make it able to dock inside the Graal window(part of GUIcontainer, not GraalControl), that way it doesn't take up viewable gaming space, but eliminates the micro-management of positioning and controlling it outside the Graal window.

No, I want it on the side, just like the current one does. If the new playerlist eliminates this feature, then the old one should be kept.

DustyPorViva · #33 05-29-2009, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbk1994

No, I want it on the side, just like the current one does. If the new playerlist eliminates this feature, then the old one should be kept.

I was making an additional suggestion :P

_Zelph · #34 05-30-2009, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyld

Please do not over-complicate it though, the thing that's worst about the custom playerlist on UN is the pure amount of buttons it has that makes it ugly and confusing.

Skyld, that playerlist hasn't been public for like a year now. It has changed a lot since you last saw it.

Besides, it'd be a barebone version suitable for all servers.

Rapidwolve · #35 05-30-2009, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankie

please don't.

I agree, please don't. I really wouldn't like the look. External windows are better.

Darklux · #36 06-04-2009, 08:39 PM

Graal Nukem Forever - Released when its done!

Vima · #37 06-04-2009, 09:02 PM

I want the GraalEditor and RemoteControl to work with the intel compatible graal version before they release it!

cyan3 · #38 06-04-2009, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vima

I want the GraalEditor and RemoteControl to work with the intel compatible graal version before they release it!

As far as I know Graal are not making any external tools.

cbk1994 · #39 06-04-2009, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vima

I want the GraalEditor and RemoteControl to work with the intel compatible graal version before they release it!

I assume you mean the Mac version (since the Windows has worked with Intel since the beginning of time)?

That's not a problem with Intel, that's a problem with them not willing to put in the time to create the tools.

Tigairius · #40 06-04-2009, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vima

I want the GraalEditor and RemoteControl to work with the intel compatible graal version before they release it!

We're all working hard to create powerful tools for the players in the new version. We know the transition from current external windows to scripted external windows will be tough, but we're trying to make it easier by making them as user-friendly as possible and replicating the old style of the windows.

I have been working hard on a scripted level editor for about 7 months now, and right now I have made many advancements with the playerlist for the next version.

I really don't think it'll be as bad as you guys are anticipating.