Bring back Classic levels and hit detection?

[Nelm]

What people loved about Classic was the community. Let's not kid ourselves by thinking we loved the old HD and levels, because that's just not the case. While, I for one, would love to see the old HD return, it's pretty apparent that it's just not going to happen so it's time to suck it up and move on. It's not happening.

The only way to get the community back is by continuing to offer ideas that the administration can actually complete and add to the server, promoting Graal in general, and Classic more specifically.

OH, and I don't know, maybe by actually playing the server. It's kind of pathetic to see all the people in this thread on other servers for the most part. Blame the HD all you want for that, too. It's the cool thing to do.

[-Ramirez-]

Originally Posted by Nelm

What people loved about Classic was the community. Let's not kid ourselves by thinking we loved the old HD and levels, because that's just not the case.

That may be true for you. The people were part of it, but how significant a part is dependent on the person you're talking to. Just because you see them as the dominant factor in what made the server great doesn't mean that has to be the case for everyone else.

OH, and I don't know, maybe by actually playing the server. It's kind of pathetic to see all the people in this thread on other servers for the most part.

It's kind of pathetic to see development go in random directions at all times regardless of who's playing. You're not offering a magical solution, sorry.

[Nelm]

Originally Posted by -Ramirez-

That may be true for you. The people were part of it, but how significant a part is dependent on the person you're talking to. Just because you see them as the dominant factor in what made the server great doesn't mean that has to be the case for everyone else.

That statement applies to more people than just me, whether anyone else wants to take off their nostalgia goggles and admit it is up to them. The problem here is more than HD and default movement. This problem is Graal-wide. If all the people who loved 'classic'-type servers because of HD and movement, why is UN struggling right now?

Most people just don't enjoy playing Graal period. And it has nothing to do with HD, it has to do with content and enjoyability. No one is offering anything new and it's pretty stagnant development-wise across the board. Granted, some people really dislike the HD on Classic, so they're not going to enjoy any content that it produces because of their bias towards the system, justified or not.

It's kind of pathetic to see development go in random directions at all times regardless of who's playing. You're not offering a magical solution, sorry.

You're right. It's rough to watch an administration go in a million different directions at once and accomplish nothing. But, I'd say it's just about as pathetic to see people cry about the lack of content and offer nothing more than, "Bring back old levels!" and "This HD sucks! Bring back the old one!". That is what this is all resorted to and it's going to continue being a stalemate until both sides realize that there is a certain amount of give and take that needs to happen.

For me personally, I'm willing to adapt to the HD and movement if the administration is willing to put out new content and make an attempt at listening to players requests (the feasible ones at least).

But hey, what do I know? It seems like the way you guys have been handling this has worked so well...

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

What people liked was not exclusive to one thing or the other. When I used to play many people left and came, so the community was always changing. Appeal to a server is usually always a combination of this and that, here and there. Sometimes one provides the hook and the other provides the catch. It's not as simple as, "community = win!".

But the fact remains that there was a community there. And you can not deny that a server with a higher populous is not attractive to old and new players alike. I did not say that the end all comes and goes with the community, but it plays a huge part in why I played Classic after other servers started appearing and is what keeps me coming back to Graal even today. I think it's fair to say that I'm not the only one who feels this way. But by no means am I calling the community the end all. I'm simply stating that people who use the HD as their main reason why Classic is not 'Classic' is just wrong, and fixing the HD will not fix Classic.

If people aren't playing, it's for a reason, no? Maybe it's because they're unhappy with the server, so why should they play?

I agree. Classic is stagnant, development is at a crawl - at best, and there isn't a lot to offer in terms of game play. However, can you really expect management to listen to players who don't frequent their server? I'd be interested to see how many people would actually play on Classic if the HD was default. My guess is that it wouldn't make much of a difference as Classic's problems extend far beyond the HD and movement issues.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Nelm

I agree. Classic is stagnant, development is at a crawl - at best, and there isn't a lot to offer in terms of game play. However, can you really expect management to listen to players who don't frequent their server? I'd be interested to see how many people would actually play on Classic if the HD was default. My guess is that it wouldn't make much of a difference as Classic's problems extend far beyond the HD and movement issues.

Staff should listen to anyone who puts out a compelling and constructive argument, regardless of if they're frequent players or not. Players should not have to force themselves to play a server they don't enjoy just to get an opinion that matters.

[Nelm]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Staff should listen to anyone who puts out a compelling and constructive argument, regardless of if they're frequent players or not. Players should not have to force themselves to play a server they don't enjoy just to get an opinion that matters.

Fair enough. But from what I can see, staff have put out a compelling and constructive argument against the proposal. All we are doing is beating this topic to death. As long as Storm is the manager, the HD is staying, the way I see it. I don't care for the system, but nothing is changing in that regard. So why as players are we still focusing on this instead of throwing out ideas that will actually be considered and can be implemented?

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Nelm

Fair enough. But from what I can see, staff have put out a compelling and constructive argument against the proposal. All we are doing is beating this topic to death. As long as Storm is the manager, the HD is staying, the way I see it. I don't care for the system, but nothing is changing in that regard. So why as players are we still focusing on this instead of throwing out ideas that will actually be considered and can be implemented?

Their only argument is that it'll be too much work. Then some say that it will eventually be replaced with default, but they're willing to continue adding content that uses custom, which will eventually mean more work for them because they will have to replace all the content using the custom system now, AND whatever they add from hereon out.

I don't see this custom system as something that will last Classics lifetime, so eventually it will be replaced with another custom system or default or something, but I don't think it's going to be around forever. Classic as seen countless custom systems, conversion from pre-NPC server to NPC-server. Conversion from clientside to serverside. Conversion from regular maps to gmap. And what seems to be 5 years of just fiddling with systems rather than content, going from this system to the next. I don't think it's as much work, or going to be that huge of a set-back as they make it out to be.

Honestly, I gave up trying, but I still hope they will eventually convert to default, or at least a custom system that emulates it instead of thinking they can do it better.

[BlackSolider]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Their only argument is that it'll be too much work.

Their only argument, and the only one they need, is that it'll be far too much work for the lackluster staff we currently have, not to mention it'd take months of time to complete.

Would classic survive those several months with minimal changes while this project is being worked on? It's debatable, but I'd guess no. Regardless, IMO we should simply try to improve things as much as possible and put this HD project on hold until our staff team is built up.

Is this the best course of action? Like everything else, thats debatable. But whether you agree or not, the people in charge, for whatever reason, aren't simply going to bend to every foreign whim, whether they played 8 years ago or not.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Nelm

What people loved about Classic was the community. Let's not kid ourselves by thinking we loved the old HD and levels, because that's just not the case. While, I for one, would love to see the old HD return, it's pretty apparent that it's just not going to happen so it's time to suck it up and move on. It's not happening.

The only way to get the community back is by continuing to offer ideas that the administration can actually complete and add to the server, promoting Graal in general, and Classic more specifically.

What people liked was not exclusive to one thing or the other. When I used to play many people left and came, so the community was always changing. Appeal to a server is usually always a combination of this and that, here and there. Sometimes one provides the hook and the other provides the catch. It's not as simple as, "community = win!".

Originally Posted by Nelm

OH, and I don't know, maybe by actually playing the server. It's kind of pathetic to see all the people in this thread on other servers for the most part. Blame the HD all you want for that, too. It's the cool thing to do.

If people aren't playing, it's for a reason, no? Maybe it's because they're unhappy with the server, so why should they play?