Bring back Classic levels and hit detection?

[unknown]

I agree with the last 3 posts.

Old content would seem new to players.

The quests were superb.

Classic might be hit hard at first but its a step needed to recover.

This has all been mentioned to staff previously by many people over the years, they just didn't care enough to make any changes and dug themselves into a deeper grave. Now its almost like the server could never recover, but theres always hope right?

[Tyhm]

Unique Elements that made up Classic -
it was Graal
it was Official
it was Free
it had Quests
it had pretty good hit detection for baddies
you could spar
(you could cheat)
it was all we had

Not everything can come back. Not everything SHOULD come back. It's not gonna break my heart if the old quests are adapted to the new way of doing things, but the occasional "Tyhm's NPC in jail" homage is just a cameo in a completely different quest, not an updating of the old quest.

For hit detection - having tinkered with Zombies for a bit, you can't count on Move or the Defaults for a damn thing anymore. I'm serious, you make the simplest possible script to "Move from here to there, wait until you get here or hit a wall and trigger, when you get the movementfinished trigger move from there to here, repeat" and it'll start to move, teleport into a wall, zip across the screen at warp speed, anything BUT sensible. I did something kinda clever with mine; I have the clientside set an arbitrary max speed, and if the X/Y suddenly jumps the clientside instead limits to that speed and catches up gradually; I also have the hit detection go off this clientside-temporary X and Y (i use showani instead of showcharacter, more freedom), have them dontblock and use custom projectiles - it's way more complicated than "just shut off the stupid custom movement system".

That said; I think if Classic's gonna be the ghetto Old Graalia server, it ought to go for the gold. Switch GPs from staff to a guild (if we want to have actual GPs, they become secret police); switch Hacking from A Bannable Offense/Using A Trainer to a metagame Weapon, switch the game from trying to recapture an age that was lost to actually satiring the culture that was lost. If the LAT wants to make quests, cool, you have my full support; but it's just not the same (ironically given how hard I worked to prevent this kind of thing) without somebody with a swear word for a name running across the screen trying to draw lewd pictures in goldgelats and shockbombs, pursued by three frantic "admins".

[contego]

Tyhm,

For clarification purposes, when you say; "it ought to go for the gold", I'm believe you meant the phrase "going for the gold" rather than making Classic a Gold Server.

As for entirely switching 'GP's' to 'secret police' this is going too far in my opinion. Having some kind of "secret police" is not.

Also, I agree, it is ironic that you'd want to allow a metaweapon. I think you're going back a little too far back in time when you want to see people running around writing things with gralat. Or running all over the walls. I remember those days and I'm pretty sure those were never supposed to be part of Graal. (Lord Chimp for example, aside from his LATing skills.)

The fact of the matter is Classic is not Classic at the moment. I think Classic should go back to being what it was meant to be and made to be. What you played a big part in making it Tyhm.

The current staff should be to adding to the existing content, not changing what is there. (i.e. economy, npcs, guild events, spar tourneys, events, ganis, or develop new quests to ADD not REPLACE.)

[dmhabe]

How is this argument still going? Look at the poll.

[BlackSolider]

Does the poll represent a bunch of "old classic" players hoping for a nostalgic return of their beloved server?

Or does the poll represent a bunch of "current classic" players who are dissatisfied with the way things currently are, and thus voted to bring back the old stuff in hopes that it will solve a bunch of our problems?

Or does the poll represent a combination of both sides hoping for a better version of classic?

I don't have the answers since I can't see who all voted, but just be careful about coming to a conclusion from a simple poll that doesn't reach all the desired population.

[contego]

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

Does the poll represent a bunch of "old classic" players hoping for a nostalgic return of their beloved server?

Or does the poll represent a bunch of "current classic" players who are dissatisfied with the way things currently are, and thus voted to bring back the old stuff in hopes that it will solve a bunch of our problems?

Or does the poll represent a combination of both sides hoping for a better version of classic?

I don't have the answers since I can't see who all voted, but just be careful about coming to a conclusion from a simple poll that doesn't reach all the desired population.

No doubt it's a combination. The point is people do not like the current content. And this is supposed to be Classic server where it all started. If people want major changes to the game play, do so with a different server.

Let me be clear, Classic needs to remain Classic but with new things to attract folks to play. Development is key. But the problem is development took the wrong direction.

[BlackSolider]

Of our current problems, how many would be solved by implementing both the old levels and the old HD, however difficult it might be?

[dmhabe]

Your most important problem, player count, and restoring Classic.

[contego]

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

Of our current problems, how many would be solved by implementing both the old levels and the old HD, however difficult it might be?

A couple options, take current server and upload it to Dev Polo server. And then change the HD and levels and make proper repairs or simply just change HD and levels on the Classic server and start working off there and let players be the testers themselves. There will be a mess and it will get worse before it gets better. But it's basically like when servers had to go gs2 and alter to gmap. It's work but it should be done and can be done with the proper organization and management to see it through.

[xnervNATx]

im gonna say this only one time

dev suck and the review sucked

dc is inactive

gc dev work on....nothing (jade made hockey event hoora , when to be complete?)

gc refuse to host if they dont have a huge amount of players(gladius)

card game failed hard and now its a dump

one reason to quit

look at the management we have

how much idea were requested?
how much were actually accepted and MADE?

[Corp1]

The biggest draws for classic was the competition and the community. New HD and levels ruined the competition. And when I say competition I mean all the good players and guilds who competed like clockwork at all the hotspots. The only thing to do would be to undo what was done 5 years ago with the hit detection and levels, change classic back to classic.

The initial pop in players once the change happens will be due to everyone that plays now wanting a newer server to compete on. Classic being restored would be the equivalent of a new server. From there the Graal network kicks in, many of us have at least a few people that dont play graal anymore on the AIM buddylist just itching for something to take up a little time. Classic being restored is an easy sell. Just like SMB3 was an easy sell on the virtual console for the Wii. From there these people that come back may want to make a new guild or a new(old) guild, which will require them to upgrade...meaning paying MONEY.

If Classic is brought back, there will be a chance for Graal to make money just by these older players coming back and upgrading accounts to make guilds/families. You have to remember Classic was the place to be for the greatest competition; no other server could replicate the level of competition that Classic had. Classic killed the will for competition on the server by ******* the hit detection.


How this should play out:
1st step, restore old classic/hd...(2nd)then an initial pop in population resulting from current population migrating from every other server and the once-a-weekers becoming more committed to the game due to classic being restored. (3rd)Next would be recapturing a piece of that older lost playercount due to the graal community communicating that old classic is back. 4th would be these older players and current players recreating the competition level that classic was known for and creating new(& new/old) guilds. Creating new/old guilds would mean upgrading accounts, which equals MONEY. Or the older players now have money and its not a big deal dropping a few bucks for graal now, due to old account being lost.

Nothing but good would come out of restoring Classic.

[Crono]

I wonder how long it will take for most of you to realize that Classic died when Graal went full p2p.

[-Ramirez-]

Originally Posted by Crono

I wonder how long it will take for most of you to realize that Classic died when Graal went full p2p.

That's only half true. There was still a very good amount of players remaining who played after you had to pay, considering it was only a one-time payment.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by -Ramirez-

That's only half true. There was still a very good amount of players remaining who played after you had to pay, considering it was only a one-time payment.

But I'm sure it was a downwards slope the whole time, was it not? I remember this was a pattern on the other playerworlds too.

[-Ramirez-]

Originally Posted by Crono

But I'm sure it was a downwards slope the whole time, was it not? I remember this was a pattern on the other playerworlds too.

I only recall a noticeable difference when things were radically changed by the inappropriately-appointed and highly intelligent (note: sarcasm) current older "manager".

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by -Ramirez-

That's only half true. There was still a very good amount of players remaining who played after you had to pay, considering it was only a one-time payment.

The playercount was declining before the NPC Server was implemented, and this was quite a while after Graal went p2p.

[MysticX2X]

Semi-sure that even if these old quests were brought back, less than half of you would still enjoy them like you did 5 years ago.

[xnervNATx]

Originally Posted by MysticX2X

Semi-sure that even if these old quests were brought back, less than half of you would still enjoy them like you did 5 years ago.

the pyramid quest was the best of every quest to be ever made , yet its will not be back. sux because its was awesome

[MysticX2X]

Originally Posted by xnervNATx

the pyramid quest was the best of every quest to be ever made , yet its will not be back. sux because its was awesome

I thought my gameboy pocket was the best thing ever the first day I got it. That doesn't mean I'll trade my nintendo ds for it. (Theoretically roms don't exist)

[xnervNATx]

Originally Posted by MysticX2X

I thought my gameboy pocket was the best thing ever the first day I got it. That doesn't mean I'll trade my nintendo ds for it. (Theoretically roms don't exist)

were not talking about a game boy pocket wtf are you talking about

[super_matt89]

Originally Posted by MysticX2X

Semi-sure that even if these old quests were brought back, less than half of you would still enjoy them like you did 5 years ago.

I agree that almost all the players will enjoy the quests or atleast completing them along with everyone to get the hearts and go PKing.

I voted to bring back the old levels AND the default HD system it's much more smooth and also the old levels were designed well, fun and distinct.

[ffcmike]

Some thoughts.

I do not believe that restoring the server to as it was will magically bring back old players,
the chances are that most of the players from 5 years ago have moved on in their life.

If the goal was to restore every level exactly as they were, it could have been done by now regardless of Default/Custom systems, but it's never been the goal,
if I were offered the chance of the servers levels being restored to GTA at the snap of a finger I would take it, there's no doubt it's collectively better than what we have currently, but realistically we're not going to be able to keep a team of organised gs1 + no npcserver > gs2 + serverside/clientside converters together for long enough time to do that.

The old levels weren't all that great,
but then I don't believe too much in keeping to "the latest" tiling and graphical standards, Classic can get away with that, why?
It's Classic.
But then I do believe that if the server is to be a decent and successful Adventure server it is important that time is dedicated so that Quests are plotted and organised first, with the overworld being built strategically around them, rather than the opposite which is currently the case,
this would also give the benefit of being able to maximise player and content density, which is important in an online game.

This doesn't mean that the old levels should be ignored,
they are a valuable resource, in terms of time saving and server identity,
and when a new player logs on they're not going to say "these levels are old, i'm not playing here", or "this server isn't visually appealing", if anything there might be a few who say "ah, this is indeed the Classic server".

The reasons I am proposing that we start work from scratch with default systems is quite simply to give the server a better Development platform,
the opportunity to work without obstacles and focussing entirely ahead,
with systems which both players (new and old) and Developers are used to, the fact that default systems are the original systems is a bonus rather than a reason.

There hasn't been much planning as far as what levels would get used, Graal City would stay the same as the central region absolutely no doubt about that, it would also be important to reuse the aspects which give the current server any competitiveness: GC events, PK/Spar ranks etc.

Originally Posted by xnervNATx

the pyramid quest was the best of every quest to be ever made , yet its will not be back. sux because its was awesome

I agree that it was the best (if not the hardest) Quest on GTA,
but there's no reason it cannot come back.

[contego]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

Some thoughts.

I do not believe that restoring the server to as it was will magically bring back old players,
the chances are that most of the players from 5 years ago have moved on in their life.

If the goal was to restore every level exactly as they were, it could have been done by now regardless of Default/Custom systems, but it's never been the goal,
if I were offered the chance of the servers levels being restored to GTA at the snap of a finger I would take it, there's no doubt it's collectively better than what we have currently, but realistically we're not going to be able to keep a team of organised gs1 + no npcserver > gs2 + serverside/clientside converters together for long enough time to do that.

The old levels weren't all that great,
but then I don't believe too much in keeping to "the latest" tiling and graphical standards, Classic can get away with that, why?
It's Classic.
But then I do believe that if the server is to be a decent and successful Adventure server it is important that time is dedicated so that Quests are plotted and organised first, with the overworld being built strategically around them, rather than the opposite which is currently the case,
this would also give the benefit of being able to maximise player and content density, which is important in an online game.

This doesn't mean that the old levels should be ignored,
they are a valuable resource, in terms of time saving and server identity,
and when a new player logs on they're not going to say "these levels are old, i'm not playing here", or "this server isn't visually appealing", if anything there might be a few who say "ah, this is indeed the Classic server".

The reasons I am proposing that we start work from scratch with default systems is quite simply to give the server a better Development platform,
the opportunity to work without obstacles and focussing entirely ahead,
with systems which both players (new and old) and Developers are used to, the fact that default systems are the original systems is a bonus rather than a reason.

There hasn't been much planning as far as what levels would get used, Graal City would stay the same as the central region absolutely no doubt about that, it would also be important to reuse the aspects which give the current server any competitiveness: GC events, PK/Spar ranks etc.


I agree that it was the best (if not the hardest) Quest on GTA,
but there's no reason it cannot come back.

-.- The fact of the matter is that any server's success is based on it's customers or players. Please look at the poll results. You're open to your beliefs but you must be open-minded and look at the recommendations of all of those who play or want to play. It's quite clear what we're asking for. The question is now; does and will the current staff want to do the hard work involved?

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by contego

-.- The fact of the matter is that any server's success is based on it's customers or players. Please look at the poll results. You're open to your beliefs but you must be open-minded and look at the recommendations of all of those who play or want to play. It's quite clear what we're asking for. The question is now; does and will the current staff want to do the hard work involved?

The facts are that the server isn't doing well enough currently and players want it to be changed and therefore improved, so ofcourse they're going to vote for that,
the whole Default Systems issue has been argued about for years,
and it's always been known that some say they'd play if they were brought back, your poll has not established anything new whatsoever.

Don't get me wrong,
i'm supporting the idea of using Default Systems and salvaging old levels,
just for reasons based on actual server design.

[contego]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

The facts are that the server isn't doing well enough currently and players want it to be changed and therefore improved, so ofcourse they're going to vote for that,
the whole Default Systems issue has been argued about for years,
and it's always been known that some say they'd play if they were brought back, your poll has not established anything new whatsoever.

Don't get me wrong,
i'm supporting the idea of using Default Systems and salvaging old levels,
just for reasons based on actual server design.

In responce to both of the things you said:

First of all, if the default setting is old news and people continue to pressure you folks to make a change, why hasn't anything been done? Regardless it's time something is done in my opinion. Stefan and unixmad need to step up. Globals can also get involved. The paying customers have clearly been making this request for sometime.

Finally to respond to you saying you support the idea, then why don't you utilize the Dev Polo server and hire yourself a team to make adjustments there. You're cleary someone who has the ability to make these changes, although I'm not sure your official rank.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by contego

In responce to both of the things you said:

First of all, if the default setting is old news and people continue to pressure you folks to make a change, why hasn't anything been done? Regardless it's time something is done in my opinion. Stefan and unixmad need to step up. Globals can also get involved. The paying customers have clearly been making this request for sometime.

Finally to respond to you saying you support the idea, then why don't you utlize the Dev Polo server and hire yourself a team to make adjustments there. You're cleary someone who has the ability to make these changes, although I'm not sure your official rank.

That's what i'm trying to do,
but the Dev server is property of Storm, and while he has let me Develop a few things there in order to test it he doesn't support the idea,
from what I can tell the majority of the Development Team support the idea,
but the Development Admin DarkCloud is not fond of it.

[xnervNATx]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

Some thoughts.
I agree that it was the best (if not the hardest) Quest on GTA,
but there's no reason it cannot come back.

then i request it to be back!

[Gotenks_Gore]

bring it back then...

[Corp1]

I have no idea why GTA isn't brought back, it's as if some people think the current development on Classic has some sort of light source at the end of the tunnel. Classic in its current state is at the dead end, and is trying to plow through it instead of turning around.

[BlackSolider]

Laura...it's an analogy.

The problem with it, however, is that classic doesn't offer any nintendo DS quality anything. If anything (from what I've heard,) classic used to have nintendo DS quality, but currently has gameboy pocket quality. It appears to many that we've gone backwards.

[xnervNATx]

you cant compare that kind of thing

[BlackSolider]

*sigh*

Think of it this way. He's comparing something made a decade ago to something made 2 years ago. The one made 2 years ago is clearly better, but classic instead uses the stuff made a decade ago.

[MysticX2X]

I meant current Classic can just be improved for that DS quality. Im positive bringing back old quests won't bring back the playercount. Positive.

[contego]

Originally Posted by MysticX2X

I meant current Classic can just be improved for that DS quality. Im positive bringing back old quests won't bring back the playercount. Positive.

I'm quite confident that it will bring back the playercount if the HD, levels, and original quests return. Based on the poll, we're now at 40 people who voted on Classic returning, it should tell you something.

Stefan,
First -Upload old Classic for a week. Post an announcement on the server list letting players know original Classic has returned. I'm not sure when Classic with with the gmap but just upload that version.

Second -Upload a sign on the old level14.graal near the bank with a link to a new poll indicating if players would come back to Classic.

Thrid -And for the wild card, make Era and Zodaic p2p. ahahahah, yay Classic is saved!

Humor of course with the third but anyway if this finally happens I'm sure Classic will increase it's playercount. I do not think this will make Classic into 300+ people but 60+ doesn't seem far fetched by any means. Unless of course Zodiac and Era really do go p2p then it could have 200+ easy.

In reality, Graal has too many servers for it's community size. I think Graal should try to expand with servers but not as fast as it did. Spreading out the community too thin could work against it. However I take into account that you make money off players creating playerworlds now. But really, how much profit does it bring in? I wish you posted what Graal made as profits (annual reports). The fact of the matter is that the Graal community are the stakeholders, and should be recognized as such.

Let's give the stakeholders what they want.

[MysticX2X]

Originally Posted by contego

I'm quite confident that it will bring back the playercount if the HD, levels, and original quests return. Based on the poll, we're now at 40 people who voted on Classic returning, it should tell you something.

As mentioned before, people are only voting to bring back the old levels because they are desperate for Classic to have anything. Current Classic can be improved to suit player satisfaction, but there is so much pessimism and people lashing out at staff that makes it hard to even work.

Also have been said before, it would probably be impossible converting that overworld to suit any needs right now. Just looking at that level pack, I can guarantee a restoration project would take several months, if not, a year+. (I haven't played Old Classic so just going by facts).

As for default systems, I think DC is getting a little too hot headed about that. That is what Classic could use at the moment. Reason why nobody uses the default pk/spar areas is because the server and events are in a different HD and it's pretty Null to spar on a different HD then what you might get your rewards on.

[contego]

Originally Posted by MysticX2X

As mentioned before, people are only voting to bring back the old levels because they are desperate for Classic to have anything. Current Classic can be improved to suit player satisfaction, but there is so much pessimism and people lashing out at staff that makes it hard to even work.

Also have been said before, it would probably be impossible converting that overworld to suit any needs right now. Just looking at that level pack, I can guarantee a restoration project would take several months, if not, a year+. (I haven't played Old Classic so just going by facts).

As for default systems, I think DC is getting a little too hot headed about that. That is what Classic could use at the moment. Reason why nobody uses the default pk/spar areas is because the server and events are in a different HD and it's pretty Null to spar on a different HD then what you might get your rewards on.

It could take months or a year+, you say? So basically you're saying there's a light at the end of the tunnel? Let's pick up our shovels and get to work then!

N-Pulse and Unholy Nation's HD work just fine still. It can be done on the Classic server. But this can't be done without alittle elbow grease.

[xnervNATx]

how would you know mystic?
i had many players being dissapointed because there was only 3 huges* quests , newbies come on classic for quest not being pked by *****s(lol) pausing after they kill.

*:i mean castle,sardon and gnome

[BlackSolider]

Old quests might bring back the old, nostalgic players, thereby raising the playercount. At least thats what they are promoting will happen. I don't doubt that some people will return, but I can't imagine Classic having 60+ people online.

[xnervNATx]

no one said that 60 of the players would be back but at least a good 15-20 would be a good start

[ffcmike]

If bringing back old Classic in it's entirety was as simple as uploading the old levels,
it would have been done in the first place.