Bring back Classic levels and hit detection?

[BlackSolider]

More like the plan was to listen and act on the players behalf only if it was feasible.

[Tyhm]

If you're going to challenge the validity of a definition, you should state what definition you're doubting. By this I mean, "How many are actually players?" - we all are, you can't vote unless you have a Graal account now can you?
If you mean to say "Players only means people who exclusively play Graal Classic and are on at least 3 days a week", you should say so, so we can all point and laugh. You have to do some tricksy tapdancing to find any Classic "players" by that kind of definition; in order to get a decent sample size you need a definition like "people who Have played Classic and Would be interested in playing again if it was awesome again"

[contego]

Originally Posted by Tyhm

If you're going to challenge the validity of a definition, you should state what definition you're doubting. By this I mean, "How many are actually players?" - we all are, you can't vote unless you have a Graal account now can you?
If you mean to say "Players only means people who exclusively play Graal Classic and are on at least 3 days a week", you should say so, so we can all point and laugh. You have to do some tricksy tapdancing to find any Classic "players" by that kind of definition; in order to get a decent sample size you need a definition like "people who Have played Classic and Would be interested in playing again if it was awesome again"

[MysticX2X]

Most of these people are voting without thinking whether it is plausible or not. Every player of Graal is entitled to their opinion of a server, and how it should go. But mostly, those players simply don't know the time it takes, even if it could take years.

[Mark Sir Link]

Originally Posted by MysticX2X

Most of these people are voting without thinking whether it is plausible or not. Every player of Graal is entitled to their opinion of a server, and how it should go. But mostly, those players simply don't know the time it takes, even if it could take years.

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

More like the plan was to listen and act on the players behalf only if it was feasible.

What is it exactly that makes conversion undoable?

Stupidity? Arrogance?

[MysticX2X]

Now I did not really play the old overworld, but I took a peak at the old levels and can say that it would TRUELY take a long time.

For one, not enough developers to convert on good time. If you want to wait a couple years for the return of outdated levels/things you have already seen, then try petitioning that to the management.

For two, there are thousands of levels with depreciated code and a lot would have to have to be rescripted to make it work with the NPC Server and to accomodate for the depreciated code.
'
For three, that time converting can be better spent making something innovative that Classic hasn't seen before.

I've said this before a bunch of times, I don't see why people don't listen =/. Also DC pointed out it's not these developer's work they are converting so there is not much incentive to finish it fast.

Edit: Also as far as I am aware, the old overworld wasn't a gmap but please correct me if I'm wrong,

[Mark Sir Link]

I assume Classic has more than 12 players since at one point it had 200+

So I would think that people voting for conversion are "actually players"


But let's not pretend those two statements contradict each other, since it seems that both
A.) current players want conversion
B.) people who do not currently play would be drawn in by a conclusion.

Who would you rather lure in, 12 people or 49?

[BlackSolider]

More like
A) current players who want any sort of improvement whatsoever, considering many of them never played old classic
B) old players who can sit on other servers like UN while they wait for a classic dev team to redo all the levels/scripts for months on end

Personally I don't give a rats ass about 49 people who never significantly played classic during the past 3-4 years. Despite it's many flaws, Classic was doing alright in 05-07 or so, and there weren't many calls for this drastic project.

I for one will not wait for months with nothing being added so these 49 people can have their dream server back.

(Talking about levels, not the HD. Clearly we need a new hd.)

[Mark Sir Link]

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

Personally I don't give a rats ass about 49 people who never significantly played classic during the past 3-4 years. Despite it's many flaws, Classic was doing alright in 05-07 or so, and there weren't many calls for this drastic project.

go back maybe 2-3 pages on the forum and you'd see how wrong you are.

as long as the mentality of pandering to who is currently playing exists, you're going to keep the same 12 players until the server is unplugged.

[Terazel Tenjin]

Glad: do you still remember the whole Motherland thing we did on Era back in 07? Players themselves make the server/game fun. Just think about how simple of a thing that was to start/sell, the amount of time we invested in that bit of fun, and how long it lasted. It goes back to potential, what people have to work with, and incentives to stay. I think it's painfully evident that the status quo has not changed and it is not sufficient nor satisfactory.

[BlackSolider]

Oh I remember it alright, comrade. Still got a few screenshots somewhere.

Classic simply doesn't have anything to do outside of events that will keep people happy. Even graal basics like sparring and pking are brought down by the HD.

Until we actually have something fun to do in between events (that doesn't die after one week,) people won't have a reason to sit on classic and wait for a GC to log on and/or host.

[BlackSolider]

There's a difference between making changes to bring in new people and listening to people wanting to drastically alter the server while not giving a damn how long it will take and what else it would neglect.

[contego]

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

There's a difference between making changes to bring in new people and listening to people wanting to drastically alter the server while not giving a damn how long it will take and what else it would neglect.

To start, I dare you to read my whole responce thoroughly.


To my understanding from the qoute I've attached above, you're saying; 'Yes we need a change, but don't you dare change anything because it's too much work involved'.


I'd like to shift gears for a moment onto your comment, on this page, where you said "old classic players sitting on UN expecting developers to do hard work";

Let me be clear, I'm willing to help too by rolling up my sleeves and putting a team together to help get Classic in the right direction.

Not to boast but let's please keep in mind, I've built a server ground up before with Shaded Legend and I then moved on to GM of Graal in the early 2000's. My point I'm trying to make is that I've been here before, I know what it takes, and how much work is involved.

With that said,

Challenge #1: Beating the resistence from current Classic players/staff who WANT the change but reject the offers for help and change.

Challenge #2: HD.

[BlackSolider]

Originally Posted by contego

Let me be clear, I'm willing to help too

Ok that's one. How bout the other 48? Now I know you're going to respond with "several people said they'd help out on this project" and I understand that. I'm talking about the 40 other people who voted who want to sit there and let other people do the work and simply reap the benefits.

Besides, let me restate that I am against spending months and months of time working solely on this project. Classic has many more needs than just the HD.

[MysticX2X]

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

Classic has many more needs than just the HD.

Not very many that prioritize before it.

[contego]

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

Ok that's one. How bout the other 48? Now I know you're going to respond with "several people said they'd help out on this project" and I understand that. I'm talking about the 40 other people who voted who want to sit there and let other people do the work and simply reap the benefits.

Besides, let me restate that I am against spending months and months of time working solely on this project. Classic has many more needs than just the HD.

You kind of misquoted me.

I said I would help 'by putting a team together', hense more people.

I initiated this thread with the question; Bring back Classic levels and hit detection?

There's no fine print indicating that anyone had to volunteer their help.

I'd like mention the fact that the topic of bringing back Classic's HD has been discussed for several years. Also keep in mind, Classic has been dead for several years. So with that said, had we begun to fix the HD issue years ago all that would be left is development, in the right direction; better content.

Finnaly I'd like to comment on how I've noticed that in '05, Classic has had the same playercount, so I'm not sure why someone said between '05 and '07 Classic was doing well, untrue. I have been on Graal consistently since '05 and have not seen a sustainable player count.

[xnervNATx]

Originally Posted by contego

Finnaly I'd like to comment on how I've noticed that in '05, Classic has had the same playercount, so I'm not sure why someone said between '05 and '07 Classic was doing well, untrue. I have been on Graal consistently since '05 and have not seen a sustainable player count.

i think you mean me, ive never said graal was doing fine in 05-06, i was talking about how events were hosted. If you look in 05 its wasnt ctf all day long, but differents events.

Originally Posted by contego

Challenge #2:HD.

nothing mean but i knew this was going to be wrote somehow.

[Tyhm]

Soo only people who consider the time lost to be more important than the levels fixed count? You're doing the True Scotsman fallacy again.
Mind, I agree that Classic's squandered too much time on wiping-and-rebuilding, time that could have been better spent tweaking and adapting and USING prior administrations works (wasn't that the problem in the first place?), and doing it One More Time to pay for it all is a waste - but on the other hand, what's the point of Classic if it's not The Default Server anymore?

Perhaps Classic should be split off into The Classic That Is and The Classic That Was again. Only now, given the alternative, Graal2000C might stand a chance of competing with Classic...and that's not a good thing...-_-

[BlackSolider]

No, but they take far less time to complete.

Multitasking ftw, no?

[Tyhm]

I offered to redo the pyramid and baddies; someone mentioned there's already a team working on the pyramid, then there were 10 pages of flames. To my knowledge I haven't been given the access, but I'm off on other projects most of the time anyway.

[MysticX2X]

Baddies could definitely be redone, har.

[BlackSolider]

Classic was dead in 05?

Are you high or something?

I don't have the exact numbers, but I started playing classic in the summer of 05 and it was far better than it is right now. Even if 05 was so-so, 06-07 were definately pretty good for classic most of the time.

[contego]

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

Classic was dead in 05?

Are you high or something?

I don't have the exact numbers, but I started playing classic in the summer of 05 and it was far better than it is right now. Even if 05 was so-so, 06-07 were definately pretty good for classic most of the time.

Nope Classic wasn't active in '05, it was about where it is now. "Far better" is way over exagerating. The average is about 15 with mainly staff online.

The majority of you're posts are to argue with others and insult them.

Speaking of which, being "high" is far better than being ignorant, responding just to be included, to argue, and slow Classic's progression down.

You speak without experience or facts to support what you say. And I find that your posts are meant to slow production down and to simply argue for the sake of arguing.

You claim to care about Classic yet all you do is knock down any kind of progress and you sir lack tact by insulting those who are trying to make a difference.

I challenge you to actually step up and do something productive for Classic. If you feel driven to argue something, then have FACTs to support it. Not a theroy or a guess of how it works.

With that said - A little less conversation, a little more action.

[BlackSolider]

Originally Posted by contego

Nope Classic wasn't active in '05, it was about where it is now. "Far better" is way over exagerating. The average is about 15 with mainly staff online.

The majority of you're posts are to argue with others and insult them.

Speaking of which, being "high" is far better than being ignorant, responding just to be included, to argue, and slow Classic's progression down.

You speak without experience or facts to support what you say. And I find that your posts are meant to slow production down and to simply argue for the sake of arguing.

You claim to care about Classic yet all you do is knock down any kind of progress and you sir lack tact by insulting those who are trying to make a difference.

I challenge you to actually step up and do something productive for Classic. If you feel driven to argue something, then have FACTs to support it. Not a theroy or a guess of how it works.

With that said - A little less conversation, a little more action.

If you're going to tell someone to use facts to support their information, you might want to follow your own damn advice.

I know for a fact that Classic was better in 05 (summer and onwards) than it is right now. I don't know where you pretend to get your numbers from, because I played in 05. Did you?

I argue for the sake of logic. Classic has many problems, and thus we can't just tell the dev team to focus solely on converting the HD.

And before you keep talking out of your ass, do take note that I've done my fair share for classic. Maybe if you actually played in the past couple years you'd know this. Have I done as much as others? Obviously not, since my scripting skills are fairly limited. However, I've done quite a few things to help out.

For someone telling others to use facts, you might want to do some research before you try to call me out again.

[-Ramirez-]

Note about hit detection: none of you have been exposed to a scripted system that accurately emulates the default. The difference is not noticeable at all. It's much easier to integrate this than trying to redo everything for the default bs. Good luck trying to get someone to do it though.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by -Ramirez-

Note about hit detection: none of you have been exposed to a scripted system that accurately emulates the default. The difference is not noticeable at all. It's much easier to integrate this than trying to redo everything for the default bs. Good luck trying to get someone to do it though.

Why don't you give it a go?

[MysticX2X]

Originally Posted by -Ramirez-

Note about hit detection: none of you have been exposed to a scripted system that accurately emulates the default. The difference is not noticeable at all. It's much easier to integrate this than trying to redo everything for the default bs. Good luck trying to get someone to do it though.

As far as I am aware, it wasn't necessarily just for the HD if attempted to make Classic default again.

[contego]

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

I argue for the sake of logic. Classic has many problems, and thus we can't just tell the dev team to focus solely on converting the HD.

This is the last time I am acknowledging you. Because I'm truly losing my patience with the lack of respect and maturity you have on this thread.

I never said focus solely on HD, I said that was the first challenge. If you actually go back through this entire thread and read my suggests on how to lure players in you'd retract that fkin' statement.

This is exactly why I challenged you to start reading my posts clearly, because you don't.

I've said it before and I'll say it again but I'm directing it to you; put your boxing gloves down and pick up some glasses. I'm here to help work not here to bicker. If you have something to say, be contructive not offensive.

[MysticX2X]

Classic used to average 30 in 07. It averages barely 10 now.

[xnervNATx]

Originally Posted by MysticX2X

Classic used to average 30 in 07. It averages barely 10 now.

more like 35

[maximus_asinus]

he was off by five players. BIG DEAL

shawty

[xnervNATx]

Originally Posted by maximus_asinus

he was off by five players. Big deal

shawty

ya big deal lol

[Mark Sir Link]

I'm pretty sure almost every statistic thrown in here is way off (too high)

[BlackSolider]

Way to ignore the rest of my post.

Perhaps you realized your mistakes and chose to not post about them. But w/e.

When you say the 'hd is the first challenge', to me that implies doing it first. When you do something first, usually you put the other aspects on hold. Correct me if I'm wrong, but thats usually what doing something "first" means, right?

[Pelikano]

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

Way to ignore the rest of my post.

Perhaps you realized your mistakes and chose to not post about them. But w/e.

When you say the 'hd is the first challenge', to me that implies doing it first. When you do something first, usually you put the other aspects on hold. Correct me if I'm wrong, but thats usually what doing something "first" means, right?

Well, yes...
but you can also do different stuff at once

EDIT: Not with our staff team tho

[xnervNATx]

can someone close this thread

[unknown]

can someone close their mouth
(not pointing anyone out, I swear)

So this thread should probably be closed, but I wish that classic staff would try to add more people to their staff who want to be involved and set some goals. Really, its not going to hurt to try to dev on what you have and maybe just make a few other levels @ a time default HD or default events...

[MysticX2X]

Classic Dev is really dry atm. There's pretty much no active scripters who aren't management/administration.

[Pelikano]

Originally Posted by MysticX2X

Classic Dev is really dry atm. There's pretty much no active scripters who aren't management/administration.

:[

[MysticX2X]

Originally Posted by Pelikano

:[

Oh, I forgot about Sam!