Quests!

[Sir Kwang]

ps i haven't seen the new quests.. but i went through the beginning classic quest the other day and it seems to be glitched.. or maybe im doin somethin wrong but it seems like you need the level 2 glove to get through it

[Polo]

Originally Posted by Sir Kwang

ps i haven't seen the new quests.. but i went through the beginning classic quest the other day and it seems to be glitched.. or maybe im doin somethin wrong but it seems like you need the level 2 glove to get through it

I don't think you require the golden gloves to complete the introductory quest (as at the time the quest was created, I was the only player to have these), though it is possible that parts of the quest may have previously undiscovered bugs. If you want to send me the details of where you got stuck (through forum PM, email or in-game PM) then I'll be happy to take a look and see if I can rectify any problems.

[Nabru]

Lol@Storm suggesting he's going to do something on classic.

[WhiteDragon]

Originally Posted by Polo

then I'll be happy

Originally Posted by Polo

look

Originally Posted by Polo

see

Originally Posted by Polo

rectify

False.

[Mark Sir Link]

rebels

[jorollychu]

hey mark sir link, how are you doing, hello.

[Tyhm]

I'm viciously disappointed in the Sardon's Tower Quest. Despite that I somehow have lots of hearts and a L2 sword, the baddies seem to have doubled in durability to match...and my shield apparently has a weakness for arrows...and the arrow machines can't be set on fire to make a constant flamethrower, though I suppose that was always a little cheesy...and every time I die, it's straight back to the jail cell to stock up on arrows and try again...and get murderously frustrated at how baddies' hitdetection always means I get hit while I'm attacking...

And of course it's unskippable, the irony of which is not lost on me...though I think it could benefit from a Mercy Option, wherein after a few deaths healing items or save points start appearing....

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by Tyhm

Despite that I somehow have lots of hearts and a L2 sword, the baddies seem to have doubled in durability to match...and my shield apparently has a weakness for arrows...and the arrow machines can't be set on fire to make a constant flamethrower, though I suppose that was always a little cheesy...

That's actually a really good point and I didn't look at it that way until now. On Graal in general I have always seen baddies at face value with their difficulty levels depending on their generic archetypes, such as the cute little frogs to a barbaric Lizardon. I don't believe that this kind of difficulty curve makes for good design though.

The level progression does currently indicate difficulty, with more baddies of higher "skills" being swarmed in areas as you progress, but having certain types indicating difficulty is not really a good way of making dungeons original, nor does it encourage a consistency in the common enemy specific to the dungeon you're in. The different quests should work on a difficulty curve showing an increase when you gain more assets and resources such as hearts and items to deal with it, so with this quest being one of the forced first, it probably shouldn't be as hard as it is like you said.

I believe that in addition to the raising difficulty as the player progresses, the enemies should reflect that, yet be different in aesthetics, abilities and types per-quest which would hopefully make the quests feel a little less generic. Sardon might have hired some heavies to guard his tower while enslaving some Lizardons that aren't going to question his ethics to place in the more top secret areas, that's cool. To then go and make the Lizardon race seem more powerful further down the line as an enemy, even though they can be enslaved by the first boss, it kind of looses its viability. This kind of depth in baddies wasn't implimented in the old Classic quests though, but I do believe it's probably more possible to do now than ever before. Well, maybe not with this team.

[Tyhm]

Hell, Lizardons were in the very first dungeon for some reason...still not sure where Ragnarok was going with that...

Mostly I meant that I remember Gray Baddies had 2 HP; one swipe with a L2 sword, one bomb, one arrow, and they were toast. Blue Baddies had 3 HP. Reds I guess had 4, Golds had 6 and did a fullheart of damage, Lizardons had 12 and went twice as fast (just double checked in editor), but 2 arrows kill 'em (arrows do about 6 damage, since one will kill a Gold). Dragons have 8 HP (and due to a fun glitch, their fireblasts will deflect off the L1 shield if you're lucky).

Now, if Sardon's quest is going to be an optional high-level quest later on, cool...but if we're going to be expected to take it on with the Lizardon Sword, Lizardon Shield, 10 fullhearts, healing items, fireball, the birdshot, and extra quivvers, we should get those before we get locked into either Do The Quest or "I can't move!"

Also, lag + baddies = brutal. I shoot 3 arrows at 3 baddies chasing me; one gets hit once, the other 2 are unaffected. Wts.
I swing my sword at a goldbaddie coming at me from the weak corner. He hits me despite his sword being on the wrong corner, THEN deflects my blow, but by that time I'm already sucked into the vortex. Wts.
Two rockballs are fired at me. I dodge between them, then one of them explodes in midair and I die. Wts.

I know I'm no good at this game, but I don't think lag-fu needs to be a prerequisite to bowling. Or walking around Graal City. :-P

[WhiteDragon]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Well, maybe not with this team.

But maybe we can! amirite or amirite

[Tyhm]

It's pretty trivial to use Snowmen and Pyramid Guards instead of the standard Armors (I even had a bit of fun with the Earthquake Machine Robots from the ceiling); the question though is should there be a subtle color theme? Like, Gray robots are functionally equivalent to Gray soldiers, Gold snowmen are functionally Gold Warriors? Or should they all be on their own tiers, where Gray Snowmen are tougher than Lizardons?

[jacob_bald6225]

Originally Posted by Tyhm

It's pretty trivial to use Snowmen and Pyramid Guards instead of the standard Armors (I even had a bit of fun with the Earthquake Machine Robots from the ceiling); the question though is should there be a subtle color theme? Like, Gray robots are functionally equivalent to Gray soldiers, Gold snowmen are functionally Gold Warriors? Or should they all be on their own tiers, where Gray Snowmen are tougher than Lizardons?

High five for the awesome idea. Think of how fun the golden frogs would be! And when everyone gets bored of golden level enemies someone could add in a new tier of plat baddies.

[Tyhm]

All the way up to Sparkly Baddies, Rainbow Baddies and Translucent Baddies, probably. :-P
Well, it'd be easy enough to make a Gray Lizardon using inferior armor, shield and sword...but by the current progression it'd go Gray (2), Blue (3), Red (4), Gold (6), Green (Dragons, 8), White? (10), Black (Lizardons (striped), 12); with the speed boost from Lizardons and the damage boost from Goldwarriors being largely a unique Attribute.

Or conversely, we could say Normal (1-2), Blue (3), Red (4), Gold (6), Green (8), White (10), Black (12) - thus a normal-green Frog is a Normal, a Blue Frog is tougher, a Red Frog is tougher still, a Gold Frog's scary, a Double-Green (either pale or dark) is Lizardon-tough...

[jacob_bald6225]

Originally Posted by Tyhm

All the way up to Sparkly Baddies, Rainbow Baddies and Translucent Baddies, probably. :-P
Well, it'd be easy enough to make a Gray Lizardon using inferior armor, shield and sword...but by the current progression it'd go Gray (2), Blue (3), Red (4), Gold (6), Green (Dragons, 8), White? (10), Black (Lizardons (striped), 12); with the speed boost from Lizardons and the damage boost from Goldwarriors being largely a unique Attribute.

Or conversely, we could say Normal (1-2), Blue (3), Red (4), Gold (6), Green (8), White (10), Black (12) - thus a normal-green Frog is a Normal, a Blue Frog is tougher, a Red Frog is tougher still, a Gold Frog's scary, a Double-Green (either pale or dark) is Lizardon-tough...

So awesome btw, could have tougher versions of bosses too(Faster/more damage/health) that go a different color ala diablo 2. They could be random encounters in treasure caves(From the old treasure map quest).

Also, harder baddies should also drop better stuff at higher rates.

[Tyhm]

Sounding suspiciously like the Red TRexes from Kingdoms.
I dunno about going that far; it's a trivial matter to make new graphics for new baddies, Cheap-Butt Recolors is a symptom of either running out of storage space on a system where you can edit the palette or running out of art...I'd rather fight the Dragon in one dungeon, then a Red Two-Headed Dragon in a later dungeon...
And eff yeah better baddies should drop better loot. If a gold baddy does twice the damage per hit and takes twice as much effort to kill, it should drop triple-hearts.