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  #1  
Old 11-22-2008, 07:46 PM
Umat Umat is offline
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Originally Posted by kia345 View Post
"Role playing" sounds less pitiful.
You can never escape from who you are.
  #2  
Old 11-22-2008, 10:15 PM
Umat Umat is offline
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What I meant with that is that when I play a game, I want to have something to do, not just play in the woods with swords and pretend that I am something I'm not.
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Old 11-22-2008, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Umat View Post
What I meant with that is that when I play a game, I want to have something to do, not just play in the woods with swords and pretend that I am something I'm not.
That's what you're doing when you play the game no matter if it's RP, racing, or minigolf.

I play Oblivion as an Argonian Witchhunter. I actually go through towns wiping out Mages Guild members and magic users, and that's not part of the game at all, I just like to get into and play the part of a witch hunter. But just because I play that role in a game, does it mean I want to do it in real life?

Just because people RP doesn't mean they fall short of being cool people - maybe, god forbid, they enjoy playing the game.
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Old 11-22-2008, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Umat View Post
What I meant with that is that when I play a game, I want to have something to do, not just play in the woods with swords and pretend that I am something I'm not.
They're still working on a combat system. I don't know about you but exploring and talking to people makes up a good portion of what I do on Graal anyway.
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  #5  
Old 11-22-2008, 11:46 PM
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Talking... I do that here if there's any interesting threads. On aim/msn or on IRC. :P Exploring, sure, I do that, but it's not that fun if there isn't anything to find. I like stuff with storylines. Something to lay my thoughts on while playing.
  #6  
Old 11-22-2008, 11:49 PM
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I like stuff with storylines. Something to lay my thoughts on while playing.
RP'ing is being a part of the story.
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  #7  
Old 11-22-2008, 11:59 PM
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That is making your own story. I don't pay for using my own imagination. I pay for content, sure Valikorlia has nice graphics and good gui whatnot but I require more. Isn't there anyone on graal that shares the same thoughts?
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Old 11-23-2008, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Umat View Post
Isn't there anyone on graal that shares the same thoughts?
That RP'ing is stupid and that it takes an expert storyteller to enjoy it? Yeah, they're on Zone and Era.

Quote:
That is making your own story.
You don't create your own story from scratch, you create yourself and tuck yourself safely within the already made RP. It's not all about you, you're not writing the play, you're just a useless background character - just like you are on every other server, RP or not.

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I don't use my own imagination.
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  #9  
Old 11-23-2008, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by kia345 View Post
That RP'ing is stupid and that it takes an expert storyteller to enjoy it? Yeah, they're on Zone and Era.
Zone and Era? Are you kidding? Those guys are just kids that isn't able to play Counter-strike/Battlefield or whatever ebcause their parents think it's too gory.

Era and Zone has no story what so ever.

Atleast Classic has some kind of story. Even though it's been broken/incomplete/dull/boring since 3-4 years back when they started over from scratch.

Quote:
You don't create your own story from scratch, you create yourself and tuck yourself safely within the already made RP. It's not all about you, you're not writing the play, you're just a useless background character - just like you are on every other server, RP or not.
You sure are a stubborn little fella, aren't you? Can't I have my own opinions of what a good game is built upon without getting flamed about it?

Just stop being a douche.
  #10  
Old 11-23-2008, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Umat View Post
You sure are a stubborn little fella, aren't you? Can't I have my own opinions of what a good game is built upon without getting flamed about it?
You're playing RP'ing off as bad and useless, that's hardly an opinion. And your 'opinion' is baseless, as you seem to have no idea what RP'ing even is.
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  #11  
Old 11-23-2008, 12:32 AM
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You're playing RP'ing off as bad and useless, that's hardly an opinion. And your 'opinion' is baseless, as you seem to have no idea what RP'ing even is.
I know what roleplaying is. You put yourself in a role as a another person/animal/thing and makes up background stories and pretend to do stuff that isn't actually happening. When I play a game, I play as myself. This doesn't mean I think of myself as a god or anything like that. I just think it's unnecessary to pretend to be something you're not. Sure, I'm youmat on classic, and look like an ape in a somewhat stormtrooperlooking body. But that's it. I don't run around and marrying other players on graal because I think that's just plain stupid. However the feeling of having successfully completed a quest on the other hand is great.

I guess I'm to old to play with toys and pretend I'm spiderman. But that doesn't mean I don't have any imagination. I haven't insulted you personally in any way. So why should you?
  #12  
Old 11-23-2008, 12:02 AM
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Call us Valikorlians nerds, if you want. But, we can out-develop any server on this game, if we weren't so damn lazy.
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Originally Posted by Umat View Post
That is making your own story. I don't pay for using my own imagination. I pay for content, sure Valikorlia has nice graphics and good gui whatnot but I require more. Isn't there anyone on graal that shares the same thoughts?
Then don't play Valikorlia. It's a text-based roleplaying game, y'know. There's a bunch of other servers out there.
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  #13  
Old 11-23-2008, 12:51 AM
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Still, my point is that everyone doesn't roleplay and there should be a server somewhere more like classic was, with quest. Sure you can RP on classic too, but it had something to do other than shooting and talking. Which I have yet to see on another server. There's just many RP servers and one adventure server.

My intention wasn't to insult roleplayers, and there's no need to feel hurt just because I'm not into roleplaying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu View Post
I'd feel safe saying that Valikorlia has the oldest average playerbase on Graal. While you may call what you're doing roleplaying, it really isn't near any level of true roleplaying. Text-based roleplaying is probably the truest form of it.
I have been into text-based roleplaying, and that's quite fun. It's more like reading a book and you get to imagine the atmosphere and how the people look like. Still, I don't play games to roleplay, I play games to rest my head and to not imagine.

Quote:
And, yeah, you might call us losers. But, a lot of us are actually intelligent, and lead pretty satisfactory lives. Not to mention that I'm probably 150x better than you at anything that involves creativity and strategy.
Where did I call you losers? I have just said that RP'ing in Graal doesn't appeal me. Not in any game. Maybe in MUD's but nothing that already has graphics in it. Stop taking stuff I said out of context. I still haven't insulted you in any way. Saying that you're better than me in creativity is plain stupid since you don't know me. I make music which requires some sort of imagination. You might be right about strategy but that doesn't bother me.
  #14  
Old 11-23-2008, 12:55 AM
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There's just many RP servers and one adventure server.

What? There's one RP server.
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  #15  
Old 11-23-2008, 12:58 AM
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What? There's one RP server.
What PoJo said. You seem to also have RP and RPG mixed up.
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  #16  
Old 11-23-2008, 01:03 AM
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What PoJo said. You seem to also have RP and RPG mixed up.
Yeah, sorry about that, but Roleplaying and Roleplaying Games goes hand-in-hand for me. I like RPG's like Final Fantasy or Pokémon like games. But these servers doesn't offer that. Those games have a storyline. Most servers on Graal doesn't which I think is sad.
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Old 11-23-2008, 01:06 AM
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Yeah, sorry about that, but Roleplaying and Roleplaying Games goes hand-in-hand for me. I like RPG's like Final Fantasy or Pokémon like games. But these servers doesn't offer that. Those games have a storyline. Most servers on Graal doesn't which I think is sad.
Well yes, I do agree, that to become a successful RP server/game you need the following:
  • Gameplay, at least something.
  • World lore.
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  #18  
Old 11-23-2008, 01:09 AM
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Yes, thank you. I rest my case. This got out of hand. Mainly because of misunderstandings.
  #19  
Old 11-23-2008, 01:15 AM
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I don't quite know what's going on in this topic but I heard Valikorlia and I heard RP... I think Valikorlia has a ton of potential as a server, but they just don't tap into it. RP and gameplay can mix together... in fact there are TONS of muds out there that do just that. You can't imagine gameplay will destroy RP unless the staff just can't maintain both at the same time... if that's the case don't say you can't have both together, just say Valikorlia can't manage both together.
  #20  
Old 11-23-2008, 01:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DustyPorViva View Post
Stuff
I really hope one day Valikorlia finds the strength/will to make it's server popular to people from all walks of life.

I used to be an rp nut, but after a while I got tired of having to follow the fad group on their quest to rp at the coolest new spot.
  #21  
Old 11-24-2008, 01:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DustyPorViva View Post
I don't quite know what's going on in this topic but I heard Valikorlia and I heard RP... I think Valikorlia has a ton of potential as a server, but they just don't tap into it. RP and gameplay can mix together... in fact there are TONS of muds out there that do just that. You can't imagine gameplay will destroy RP unless the staff just can't maintain both at the same time... if that's the case don't say you can't have both together, just say Valikorlia can't manage both together.
We were working on putting the two together, despite the rants of the traditional roleplayers. What happened is that I got lazy, Inverness got lazy, and the rest of the developers got lazy. Once the manager decided on a 40 day deadline, when we needed another 3-4 months at least, I kind of lost my drive. Why work on something when you know you can't finish it on time? To add to that, the manager wouldn't accept a player's offer to pay for 6 more months on the dev server.

It's not so much that it can't be done. It's just that it's a tall order, and nobody wants to help... even if they're going to get paid for it. Not a single person responded to that ad, where Omake offered to pay people to develop.
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  #22  
Old 11-24-2008, 01:21 AM
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It's not so much that it can't be done. It's just that it's a tall order, and nobody wants to help... even if they're going to get paid for it. Not a single person responded to that ad, where Omake offered to pay people to develop.
Would develop for free if other Valikorlian staff were willing to work and if the players actually want the server to grow. The latter is what's holding development back in my opinion.
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Old 11-23-2008, 03:50 PM
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  #24  
Old 11-24-2008, 08:00 PM
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I'm going to admit that Valikorlia can't thrive on RPing alone, they need something else to pull in the players. The reason it used to achieve over 100 players online was because it had an RPG system and was ahead of its time. Also, PLEASE bring back the giant gmap, I miss it so much.
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Old 11-24-2008, 09:47 PM
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There are also a ton of bugs. I can't even remember how many times I was trying to get around and had to unstick me because of link problems. Either a link put me in a dead area(water with no way onto land, or on a wall), or there was just no link giving me a way back(left a room and the link back didn't work).
  #26  
Old 11-24-2008, 09:48 PM
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Same lol
  #27  
Old 11-24-2008, 11:34 PM
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Lack of player support is a huge issue on Valikorlia. They want a new system, but they either don't want to change, or they can't agree on what kind of change they want. But, mostly, I think the lack of player support comes from the fact that players simply don't trust any type of management. I mean, we had years and years of Clash. In case you didn't know, Clash did not care about Valikorlia. He released not-even-half finished "systems", because he was working on "New Val". He wouldn't even give NC to anybody who wanted to help on the scripting side. So, over the years of his management (and the 3 short managements between Clash being fired by globals and Omake being voted-in) a lot of players have lost faith that management can actually do anything.

Staff being unenthusiastic about working is almost a domino effect of the players' mood. For months, on a daily basis, I personally was told that I was ruining the server, either by working on the update and not paying attention to the current server, or vice-versa. The thing with Valikorlia is that there aren't any automated systems to keep things going while an update is being made. Levels need to be made almost constantly for new events, for example. A problem facing the LAT team while I was LAT Chief, was that I had to juggle between fixing the broken level and making new levels for the current server, and making new levels for the update. Pretty soon, LATs started quitting left and right, and I was essentially all by myself. In order for a full update, Valikorlia would really need two sets of staff: one for the current server, and one for the dev server. That wouldn't be problem, if developers weren't such a rare commodity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle4 View Post
I'm going to admit that Valikorlia can't thrive on RPing alone, they need something else to pull in the players. The reason it used to achieve over 100 players online was because it had an RPG system and was ahead of its time. Also, PLEASE bring back the giant gmap, I miss it so much.
We debated this a lot, actually. What Omake (the manager) decided was a segmented GMAP (three different GMAPs, to represent three different continents). When the LAT team started shrinking, I convinced him to just stay with the worldmap (which really is a unique part of Valikorlia -- as far as I know, we're still the only Classic playerworld with a worldmap). But, my decision was based on more than just manpower. The server itself has a very wide range of climates. We have tropical, desert, tundra, arctic, temperate, and wetland. Try fitting that all on one GMAP, along with weather effects. It just wasn't feasible, in my eyes.
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There are also a ton of bugs. I can't even remember how many times I was trying to get around and had to unstick me because of link problems. Either a link put me in a dead area(water with no way onto land, or on a wall), or there was just no link giving me a way back(left a room and the link back didn't work).
Most, if not all, of the level errors are from players themselves. At Valikorlia, we allow players to make and upload their own levels. I don't want to bash anybody here, but it's really a result of horrible standards on the part of the LAT Chief (not me -- I was demoted just after the 'update' was released). When I was LAT Chief, I was prepared to deny any level containing tile, link, graphic, or scripting errors (I really only wanted GS2 to be used) from being uploaded. I also wanted them to pass my quality test, which included my personal level aesthetics. But, all of that received backlash from the playerbase, because essentially they were too lazy to learn GS2, or too lazy to fix all their errors. Eventually, I was forced to allow GS1, and told that I wasn't allowed to deny people's levels from being upload, just because they didn't pass my 'quality standards'.

It's horrible to say, but I really do think that it's the players, not the staff, for the most part, that prevent Valikorlia from having any substantial updates.

How did this turn in to a discussion about Valikorlia, anyways? Valikorlia's not exactly Graal's benchmark server.
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  #28  
Old 11-24-2008, 11:43 PM
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It sounds like you guys give in to players way too easily(and by you guys, I mean whoever keeps letting the playerbase decide how the server ends up).
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Old 11-24-2008, 11:47 PM
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It sounds like you guys give in to players way too easily(and by you guys, I mean whoever keeps letting the playerbase decide how the server ends up).
All in an effort to not be called "Clash", I guess. It's odd, really, because we constantly tell the players, "Valikorlia isn't a democracy".
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Old 11-25-2008, 02:57 AM
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NEVER blame the players for the server's faults -- that's what Jenn did when Era's playercount sunk to 10 average. But suddenly when managers changed, Era revived to a hefty 70-80 players. So there must be something wrong with the server.
  #31  
Old 11-25-2008, 09:54 PM
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NEVER blame the players for the server's faults -- that's what Jenn did when Era's playercount sunk to 10 average. But suddenly when managers changed, Era revived to a hefty 70-80 players. So there must be something wrong with the server.
Era is not Valikorlia.
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Old 11-25-2008, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu View Post
Era is not Valikorlia.
Either way, players can't be held responsible.
  #33  
Old 11-25-2008, 10:43 PM
eagle4 eagle4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu View Post
Era is not Valikorlia.
If you keep making excuses like that then your server will definitely be stuck in a rut.
  #34  
Old 11-25-2008, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle4 View Post
NEVER blame the players for the server's faults -- that's what Jenn did when Era's playercount sunk to 10 average. But suddenly when managers changed, Era revived to a hefty 70-80 players. So there must be something wrong with the server.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Codein View Post
Either way, players can't be held responsible.
You guys don't know Valikorlia.
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  #35  
Old 11-25-2008, 10:54 PM
Codein Codein is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crono View Post
You guys don't know Valikorlia.
The fact is there's nothing stopping the administration from changing Val for the better. The fact is, if the current player base doesn't like it, the current player base can lump it. The fact is Val could be so much more. The fact is, players complaining is no excuse.
  #36  
Old 11-26-2008, 12:11 AM
eagle4 eagle4 is offline
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Originally Posted by Crono View Post
You guys don't know Valikorlia.
Quit making shallow assumptions you're starting to get annoying now.
By the way, at least back it up when you say something like that. It's not smart if you don't.
  #37  
Old 11-25-2008, 10:02 AM
[email protected] sid.gottlieb@googlemail.com is offline
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From my point of view, it depends on the updates. Whilst a staff is active you'll get more players.
  #38  
Old 11-25-2008, 10:29 AM
grim_squeaker_x grim_squeaker_x is offline
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Yeah, Graal Classic update 2004, anyone recalling? lol

I know, I know, it was a forced update and they had to do it. But what the staff chose to do afterwards made the playercount sink into the rest of the playerworlds.
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  #39  
Old 11-26-2008, 01:35 AM
DustyPorViva DustyPorViva is offline
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My experience on Val doesn't lead me to believe that this 'loyal' playerbase takes RP as seriously as they'd like everyone to believe. Walking around silently it seems just as bad as UN at times.
  #40  
Old 11-26-2008, 02:21 AM
Crono Crono is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DustyPorViva View Post
My experience on Val doesn't lead me to believe that this 'loyal' playerbase takes RP as seriously as they'd like everyone to believe. Walking around silently it seems just as bad as UN at times.
Just depends on what time it is.
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