Do you approve of the state of Classic?(poll)

[DustyPorViva]

The new quests are terrible. This is an online game, not an offline RPG... we don't want to be FORCED and STUCK in quests and prisons and such for the first 5 hours of our experience. The WHOLE OVERWORLD should not be blocked away, either.

Now, blocking away the mountains and such is fine, but blocking the bridge, and not even letting us out of Big Brother's is a terrible way to introduce us to the world.

[Umat]

Originally Posted by Crono

People don't want to stay on Classic. When they log on they're in some tutorial, isolated from the rest of the server. No one wants this, and because of the already low playercount they feel there's no incentive to keep doing the tutorial.

People doesn't want to stay on Classic mainly because there's NOTHING to do. :P If there were any quests, more people would play. More quest = more items = happy crowd of people. The current staff is trying to recreate old Graal Classic but they're going to use that non-classic new worldmap to do it. Which feels as stupid as it sounds. Half of the map is covered of a big mountain where there's nothing to do at all. I miss the dull forest that used to be there (not because it was fun, just because it's nostalgic).

If Nintendo did a remake of a link to the past, I don't think they would remove the forest in the left-top corner of the map, just because it's a waste of space, to make something that's even more a waste of space. Or replace kakariko village with goron city just because "there should be gorons somewhere". Don't destroy what's already there, expand instead and make good transportation and information about the new place. Or make a good quest there that you'll need to do to continue to the next quest. Just like in Zelda, a link to the past. I don't think there's any place on that map you don't visit to finish the game, both on darkoverworld and regular overworld.

If I'd be manager of Classic I would totally remove everything on that server and replace with latest pack from 2004 and get a team willing to upgrade it to GS2. There is support for GS1 too, so it's not impossible to do at all. I hate the new movement on Classic. It sucks. Same with the camera that has a delay. awh, man I could complain all day but they'd never listen to me anyway.

I'll be going to get some coffee with my relatives.

May the be with you.

[DustyPorViva]

To be honest, quests are just hooks. No one ever plays a server because of quests, frankly because there will never be enough to keep players actually occupied. Even on UN I could do most of the stuff in one day.

Quests hook the players, then you just have to hope a community forms that will keep players interested... at least, that's my opinion.

I'm not saying there doesn't need to be quests, but even if there were a lot of good quests, it would probably only keep players occupied for a week or so. It's more about community and content than quests that will keep a server living.

[MysticX2X]

Originally Posted by Umat

Post.

It was more active last year than it is now and there were less additions.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Umat

People doesn't want to stay on Classic mainly because there's NOTHING to do. :P If there were any quests, more people would play. More quest = more items = happy crowd of people.

Yes and no.

There's indeed not much to do on Classic but that's because Graal revolves heavily around player interaction. how2ineract wen u hav no players????

Quests won't save a server. I probably only spent about 1-2 hours doing quests on UN and they were for hearts, level 3 sword, and level 3 shield. Quests are just an obstacle to me. In the history of Graal there was only one quest I ever enjoyed doing and that was on Bravo Online. You had to go through some various areas to get pieces needed to make a car. It was fun as each part was different and was quite rewarding in the end (YOU GOT A CAR DUDE).

[Umat]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

To be honest, quests are just hooks. No one ever plays a server because of quests, frankly because there will never be enough to keep players actually occupied. Even on UN I could do most of the stuff in one day.

UN has quests? :S I play quests if there are any that is noticable. I didn't even notice that there was any quests at all. On any server except for Classic which has crappy ones.

A server need a story that tells you what to do next. If there isn't any noticeable story nor a noticeable path to any quests, I get bored. And UN looks like crap and works like crap. Day/night system was on a fritz for me. :S

Zodiac sucks. It's just newbie mashing and exping in some random dungeon you have to look for or ask a FAQ for. You shouldn't need to ask a FAQ how to start. Every server should have a optional tutorial and if they choose not to do it they could ask somebody about directions.

When I connect to Zone for the first time I have NO CLUE of what to do. Really. Graal Kingdoms is straight forward and tells you what to do in the beginning, but I don't like that server-style at all.

I really don't see any point of playing Graal at the moment really other than chatting with people while looking at pixelart. That's what you do mostly. I'm currently learning to script GS2 on a server a internet friend bought, just for the fun of it. I hope I'll learn enough to maybe be a part of Classic team and convert scripts from GS1 to GS2. etc.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Crono

Yes and no.

There's indeed not much to do on Classic but that's because Graal revolves heavily around player interaction. how2ineract wen u hav no players????

Quests won't save a server. I probably only spent about 1-2 hours doing quests on UN and they were for hearts, level 3 sword, and level 3 shield. Quests are just an obstacle to me. In the history of Graal there was only one quest I ever enjoyed doing and that was on Bravo Online. You had to go through some various areas to get pieces needed to make a car. It was fun as each part was different and was quite rewarding in the end (YOU GOT A CAR DUDE).

We're obviously different from eachother. I don't care much for the interacting stuff other than it makes me feel not alone. I care more for the quests and receiving new items/tools/weapons to be able to complete another quest. Then when you got all stuff that is available you'll have a bunch of stuff that you're able to interact with. So while being busy at completing quests you're online at the time, people join and notice that there are people on the server. Those that doesn't do quests will obviously just disconnect, but if the quests on the server is rewarding and has a good story there'll be people stuck doing quests. Sooner or later it'll build up it's players. BUT nothing will happen if you just have levels to interact on and no quests. Quests/Missions/Stories do much for a game.

Would you play tetris if you weren't able to add or remove blocks but only chat? :P Yeah, I know, bad symbolic, but I hope you see my point. Nothing to do = No people interested.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Umat

UN has quests? :S I play quests if there are any that is noticable. I didn't even notice that there was any quests at all. On any server except for Classic which has crappy ones.

A server need a story that tells you what to do next. If there isn't any noticeable story nor a noticeable path to any quests, I get bored. And UN looks like crap and works like crap. Day/night system was on a fritz for me. :S

Zodiac sucks. It's just newbie mashing and exping in some random dungeon you have to look for or ask a FAQ for. You shouldn't need to ask a FAQ how to start. Every server should have a optional tutorial and if they choose not to do it they could ask somebody about directions.

When I connect to Zone for the first time I have NO CLUE of what to do. Really. Graal Kingdoms is straight forward and tells you what to do in the beginning, but I don't like that server-style at all.

I really don't see any point of playing Graal at the moment really other than chatting with people while looking at pixelart. That's what you do mostly. I'm currently learning to script GS2 on a server a internet friend bought, just for the fun of it. I hope I'll learn enough to maybe be a part of Classic team and convert scripts from GS1 to GS2. etc.

You're not going to find 'good' quests on Graal. EVER.
There may be one or two that are okay, but you're not gonna find quests on the level of Zelda... this is an online game, so you're going to have a lot of online elements involved. Other players and such. Now, you could have quests that involve multiple players, but that takes a lot of planning and a cunning mind to come up with a great quest. Even quests just involving you... is a pain to set up in an online environment. You need to lower your standards for Graal, honestly.

The best you're going to get are probably push a block here and there, kill a baddy, and go fetch this. This is okay though, because with a good mind and a little originality, you can mold these things into something interesting and fun. Classic has the right idea with their quests, and the one with the changing water levels is okay, but I'd have enjoyed it a lot more if I wasn't FORCED to do it. More is possible, but just don't expect it. Great quests like Zelda dungeons take a lot of planning and thinking, and all kinds of other elements that I just don't think anyone around here is capable of. They could be capable of it, but for whatever reasons, you probably never going to see it done.

[Rufus]

Quests are only entertaining for the short amount of time you're doing them for. It's annoying to see the vast majority of developers giving themselves a false sense of security with quests, but maybe people haven't thought about it all too much or have a rosy view of what Classic used to be like. Graal The Adventure was dying before the NPC Server came anyway.

I disagree what Dusty said above however.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Rufus

I disagree what Dusty said above however.

I knew you would :P

[Tyhm]

I liked the old quests...

And yes, they're just hooks, exactly. The point is if you're new to the game, you can play the quests; it's a good way to figure out if it's worth keeping this game or not. IDEALLY the point would be if you're Old to the game you can play some quality quests when nobody else is online, but sadly they've never had much replay value...and what's the Point if you start out with all the goodies?

The argument is frequently made that people should have the option of skipping all the quests and starting with all the hearts and swords and shields they could ever want...I think the oft-revised Spar Zones does that nicely, as you can spar from the get-go, the only thing you can't do is PK.
(But I've always discouraged PKing, so there's my bias speaking again)

Maybe all the Cool Stuff should be quests, and all the PKing/Sparring/Simple Interaction stuff should be free...actually, that wouldn't be too hard to code, would it? All PvP using a different Sword and HP variableset; you quest to get more hearts and better baddy-killing swords, but in PvP it's [3] strikes, you're out, regardless. Or 5, simulate the Blood Axe And 10 Hearts days. You don't have to quest to get stronger at PvP, and you can't anyway, so everyone's even.

[jacob_bald6225]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Graal The Adventure was dying before the NPC Server came anyway.

Thats because of the resources being put in to preparing for the npcserver and the abandonment of ideas. I still want nations and all those cool powers.

[Tyhm]

Originally Posted by jacob_bald6225

Thats because of the resources being put in to preparing for the npcserver and the abandonment of ideas. I still want nations and all those cool powers.

Dood, I totally want to be able to replace my sword with the Zorbi wand. That **** was hillarious, I don't care if I'm being prideful or whatever, it was. And the hammer throw? Walking through Graal and this guy's on fire, that guy's smashed down, that baddy's bouncing around trapped in a bubble...

[Umat]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

You're not going to find 'good' quests on Graal. EVER.
There may be one or two that are okay, but you're not gonna find quests on the level of Zelda... this is an online game, so you're going to have a lot of online elements involved. Other players and such. Now, you could have quests that involve multiple players, but that takes a lot of planning and a cunning mind to come up with a great quest. Even quests just involving you... is a pain to set up in an online environment. You need to lower your standards for Graal, honestly.

The best you're going to get are probably push a block here and there, kill a baddy, and go fetch this. This is okay though, because with a good mind and a little originality, you can mold these things into something interesting and fun. Classic has the right idea with their quests, and the one with the changing water levels is okay, but I'd have enjoyed it a lot more if I wasn't FORCED to do it. More is possible, but just don't expect it. Great quests like Zelda dungeons take a lot of planning and thinking, and all kinds of other elements that I just don't think anyone around here is capable of. They could be capable of it, but for whatever reasons, you probably never going to see it done.

My expectations isn't too high at all. I liked the old Graal: The Adventure Quests, they were simple, yes. My point wasn't to make BETTER quests, I just want staff to have some quests at all or good directions to where to find them without asking staff where to find them.

[jacob_bald6225]

Originally Posted by Tyhm

Dood, I totally want to be able to replace my sword with the Zorbi wand. That **** was hillarious, I don't care if I'm being prideful or whatever, it was. And the hammer throw? Walking through Graal and this guy's on fire, that guy's smashed down, that baddy's bouncing around trapped in a bubble...

And the Lunaris nukes that shot fire everywhere

[Umat]

Originally Posted by Tyhm

Dood, I totally want to be able to replace my sword with the Zorbi wand. That **** was hillarious, I don't care if I'm being prideful or whatever, it was. And the hammer throw? Walking through Graal and this guy's on fire, that guy's smashed down, that baddy's bouncing around trapped in a bubble...

I really liked YOUR work on the server. I recollect that it was you that did most of the fun stuff on Graal Classic.

Anyway I'm slipping away from the subject. I'd just like graal classic to go back to being Graal: The Adventure and take back all the old levels. Now there isn't even an reason for oldbies to stick around on classic.