Playerword creation rules.

[Ter13]

Hi! I'm an old Graal player returning to check out the scene. I left about the time that Stefan was cleaning up classic, trying to make it a more professional server (as it was the only server, and was quite clunky.) I think I left Graal in '99, but it could have been later. I remember 1.36 was the most recent version when I left.

I'm curious about this playerworlds business. I've spent the last couple of years playing around with professional programming languages, like Java, C++, VB, etc, and I've learned a lot of interpreted languages as well, like Lua, Python, Ruby, etc., and a fair share of web-authoring languages, like Actionscript, PHP, Perl, Javascript, HTML, and CSS to name a few.

I'm a veteran programmer, and am looking into hosting a playerworld, but before I do, I have a few questions to ask.

1) Is there an offline program for testing GS2 scripts before adding them to a world?

2) What is Stefan Knorr's policy on making money from playerworlds --None, in-game content sales only, donations only, or feature additions only?

3) Just how customizable are servers? Can I make player sprites of any size? Can I change literally everything with script? What are the limitations?

4) Is there a more up-to-date map editor?

5) Is GK made in the same engine that Playerworlds are authored in? If not, is that engine available to players?

Thanks for any answers, y'all. I just don't really want to work on a playerworld unless I am able to change whatever I want, and can cover the costs of hosting every year (even though $100.00 is negligible).

[Chompy]

1) Nope

2) I don't think you're allowed to make money through a graal server. Dunno about donations

3) Well, you can pretty much script Alot until you come to limitations of your own skills, what gs2 can't that other languages can etc. You can do 3d but you need a 3d server for that.

4) I don't think so (For making gmaps?)

5) Yes, GK comes with the same engine, but has some predefined objects and such for their mud system they have, unless it's the same. Only think to do would be making a gmap with terrain and custom bodies :P



Hope that answered some of your questions

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Ter13

Hi! I'm an old Graal player returning to check out the scene. I left about the time that Stefan was cleaning up classic, trying to make it a more professional server (as it was the only server, and was quite clunky.) I think I left Graal in '99, but it could have been later. I remember 1.36 was the most recent version when I left.

I'm curious about this playerworlds business. I've spent the last couple of years playing around with professional programming languages, like Java, C++, VB, etc, and I've learned a lot of interpreted languages as well, like Lua, Python, Ruby, etc., and a fair share of web-authoring languages, like Actionscript, PHP, Perl, Javascript, HTML, and CSS to name a few.

I'm a veteran programmer, and am looking into hosting a playerworld, but before I do, I have a few questions to ask.

1) Is there an offline program for testing GS2 scripts before adding them to a world?

2) What is Stefan Knorr's policy on making money from playerworlds --None, in-game content sales only, donations only, or feature additions only?

3) Just how customizable are servers? Can I make player sprites of any size? Can I change literally everything with script? What are the limitations?

4) Is there a more up-to-date map editor?

5) Is GK made in the same engine that Playerworlds are authored in? If not, is that engine available to players?

Thanks for any answers, y'all. I just don't really want to work on a playerworld unless I am able to change whatever I want, and can cover the costs of hosting every year (even though $100.00 is negligible).

I know Chompy already answered, but I'll try to explain more.
1) No. If you want to test GS2 scripts, I suggest joining Developers Circle. You can test on the server, and they will help you learn more.

2) Haven't heard anyone call him Stefan Knorr ... lol. They would be unixmads policies anyway. To my knowledge you cannot make money, only donations through a website.

3) Player sprites are not used. Now we use GANIs. They are much better. You can change player size, alpha, red, green, blue, rotation, etc. You can add images & scripts in GANIs. You can change most everything. You can hide GUIs, make GUIs, images, effects (particle effects), etc. I guess your only real limitation is what you know as far as making a basic playerworld is concerned.

4) By map editor do you mean the level editor or the level generator? The level generator has been the same since I started playing, as is the level editor. I started around 2001, so that's all I can say. However I'm fairly certain that in ~1.3 they used a different one. In any case, Stefan is now going on a big online tool crusade.

5) Yes it is the same engine. You just make custom bodies (custom GANIs!) and then use a tool such as the terrain generator to make a GMAP with terrain. From there terrain can be edited with the level editor.

Also, servers are no longer $100.00 per year. I believe they are now like $80? I'm not absolutely sure.

Your server sounds very interesting, will be fun to play if it ever opens!

[Ter13]

Thanks for the help you two. (Sorry about the old terminology, when I used to play, it was Stefan Knorr, and Stephane Portha (AKA Unixmad), though Stephane wasn't often regarded until right before I left. =/ Usually Stefan was regarded as being "THE" creator.)

Anyway, I think I'm going to just go ahead and buy a six month license. I could always make a game myself in C++, but I have been yearning to play with Graal for ages.

I did have one other question, I had seen that someone had developed a "program" to rapidly change the colours of image files on the server. Does this mean an external program, or a script? Second, if this program is an external program, how extendable are Playerword servers with external programs?

I'm really excited to start working on the server, actually. I don't know why, but playing Graal doesn't really entertain me much anymore, but editing it was always my favorite thing to do back when I was about twelve and thirteen (almost a decade ago! O_O).

[zokemon]

Graal doesn't really do much with external programs. You can create TSocket object and send information back and forth between another external source but that isn't really anything to do with another program on the client...

The color effects are probably something very simply like someone changing the red, green and blue variables of an image.

[Ter13]

Alright, thanks.

[Chompy]

Originally Posted by Ter13

I did have one other question, I had seen that someone had developed a "program" to rapidly change the colours of image files on the server. Does this mean an external program, or a script? Second, if this program is an external program, how extendable are Playerword servers with external programs?

Hmm, I remember CheeToS made one for Bomy Islands, dunno how to get it tho, pm'ing him, dan or Konidias maybe? I dunno

And, good luck with your server

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Chompy

Hmm, I remember CheeToS made one for Bomy Islands, dunno how to get it tho, pm'ing him, dan or Konidias maybe? I dunno

And, good luck with your server

An in-game script to modify files?

You mean he like loaded PNG files as text & parsed them?

Damn, that's intense.

[Twinny]

Originally Posted by cbkbud

An in-game script to modify files?

You mean he like loaded PNG files as text & parsed them?

Damn, that's intense.

It is CheeToS after all <3

Also, I think it would be cool if you could come to an arrangement with Unixmad over the Graal Shop on your server. If it becomes a viable source of income for Mr Portha, some of the earnings should be shared to the playerworld owner as an incentive for further development

[Ter13]

Originally Posted by cbkbud

An in-game script to modify files?

You mean he like loaded PNG files as text & parsed them?

Damn, that's intense.

PNG format isn't all that difficult to mess around with. The PNG file format is stored like so:

file_header
color_table
image_map
File Closure character

The color table is formatted like so:
Redvalue Greenvalue Bluevalue alpha
FF FF FF FF <- This is white.

A standard 2x2 PNG black and white checkerboard image would look something like this:

(File header)
FF FF FF FF 00 00 00 FF
00 01 01 00
(EOF)

Of course, there are some values and formatting tricks I've forgotten, but I am sure I could open up a PNG file in a hex editor and figure it out in a matter of minutes. It's been a while since I've messed with the inner workings of PNGs, so not all of this may be 100% accurate.

In order to change an image file's colours, one would have to parse past the file header, go into the colour table, parse for the Ovalue, or the Old value, then replace it with the Nvalue, or the New value. You don't actually change the image_map table at all, and most PNGs have a larger image_map than color_table, so the amount of time to change out colours in negligible.


The color changing system is not actually what I want. I could make that on my own if I did want it. Really, what I'm wondering, is whether or not I can modify map files on the fly while my server is running. I'm sure I'd have to do a combination of client-side and server side synched file editing, but I am most interested in the idea of making "instanced zones". Essentially, I want to make copies of maps for certain groups of players. I understand client-side maps do exist, and I plan to use them extensively for my playerworld, but I'd like to have the ability to have a map sort of like a clientside map, but where that player could invite another player along. If two groups enter the same map, there will be a copy for each group, essentially.

I'm certain with file reading/writing, I could do so, unfortunately, I'd have to find some way to execute commands through the RCon using the NPCServer. =/ I'm gonna find a way to do it, problem is, I don't really know much about the new RCon yet, so I'm not really sure just how to run a playerworld.

I've been playing with my RCon for the last few minutes, and it seems simple enough, right?

[Chompy]

Originally Posted by Ter13

=/ I'm gonna find a way to do it, problem is, I don't really know much about the new RCon yet, so I'm not really sure just how to run a playerworld.

I've been playing with my RCon for the last few minutes, and it seems simple enough, right?

If you need help some time, I could help :o (Send me pm)

[Ter13]

Heh, thanks chompy. I know that last post made me seem a little arrogant, but I'm genuinely trying to jump into this server hosting stuff headfirst. I know that I have no idea what I'm doing, but it's just how I learn.

I'll figure it out, and if I can't, I'll be complaining on the forums. =P

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Ter13

explanation of PNG

Still, that's pretty damn intense ...

[zokemon]

Originally Posted by Ter13

The color changing system is not actually what I want. I could make that on my own if I did want it. Really, what I'm wondering, is whether or not I can modify map files on the fly while my server is running. I'm sure I'd have to do a combination of client-side and server side synched file editing, but I am most interested in the idea of making "instanced zones". Essentially, I want to make copies of maps for certain groups of players. I understand client-side maps do exist, and I plan to use them extensively for my playerworld, but I'd like to have the ability to have a map sort of like a clientside map, but where that player could invite another player along. If two groups enter the same map, there will be a copy for each group, essentially.

I'm certain with file reading/writing, I could do so, unfortunately, I'd have to find some way to execute commands through the RCon using the NPCServer. =/ I'm gonna find a way to do it, problem is, I don't really know much about the new RCon yet, so I'm not really sure just how to run a playerworld.

I've been playing with my RCon for the last few minutes, and it seems simple enough, right?

You shouldn't really do that clientside as that would be pretty insecure to give the player the ability to make his own levels. You can make the levels serverside by simple copylevel() functions or you could take the loadlines/savelines route like I usually do so you can modify the .nw files via the script before copying them.

Also, I'll be glad to help if you ever need it aswell. I only have 3D Gold though so I can't access non-classic/non-3D servers.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by Chompy

Hmm, I remember CheeToS made one for Bomy Islands, dunno how to get it tho, pm'ing him, dan or Konidias maybe? I dunno

And, good luck with your server

I can take a look in the server backup maybe. I believe it's only working with Bomy Islans sprites now, but easy to fix I guess?

Best is to email me though, before I forget.