I have question

[PrinceOfKenshin]

I was wondering if it is possible to go 3D with graal. Like lets say i buy a server would it be possible for me to go 3D? that something i really want to do and hope to start soon if it is possible

[zim5354]

Originally Posted by PrinceOfKenshin

I was wondering if it is possible to go 3D with graal. Like lets say i buy a server would it be possible for me to go 3D? that something i really want to do and hope to start soon if it is possible

they are (or so they say) making graal 3d which would let you if I understand correctly, but I dont see how it would be possible to go 3d with a client for a 2d game.

[Tyhm]

(Although that would be exactly awesome)

[PrinceOfKenshin]

Well im going to do some research on it and try to. It probably won't even start until this summer so that i have more time to give. If anyone finds anything out about it then give me a pm

[kenyonandelliot]

You can try PMing Stefan about it.. He may have a special tool you can use.

[DustyPorViva]

I know there's one server in development(or was) for Graal3D that isn't being headed by Stefan. I'd like to know how that one, and only one server got the head start.

[UberModeKappa]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

I know there's one server in development(or was) for Graal3D that isn't being headed by Stefan. I'd like to know how that one, and only one server got the head start.

Torque game engine and a properly staffed team?

[elite_master]

1. You'll need the best MONEY can buy, I doubt anyone on graal, even the legendary GST kids can go and script your stuff, you'd probably have to hire a special coder for that.

2. You'll need some awesome graphics artists, GK's artists got nothing on 3D, yo. That's probably cash out of your pocket, too.

3. It's gonna be a LOT of work. If you don't have the cash, don't expect much.

[UberModeKappa]

Originally Posted by elite_master

1. You'll need the best MONEY can buy, I doubt anyone on graal, even the legendary GST kids can go and script your stuff, you'd probably have to hire a special coder for that.

2. You'll need some awesome graphics artists, GK's artists got nothing on 3D, yo. That's probably cash out of your pocket, too.

3. It's gonna be a LOT of work. If you don't have the cash, don't expect much.

Continue stereotyping/making it up please.

[kia345]

Originally Posted by elite_master

GK's artists got nothing on 3D

Because you know all of our talents right?

[UberModeKappa]

Originally Posted by kia345

Because you know all of our talents right?

Even has your medical records.

[Googi]

Going 3D under the current system is really more a question of designing all the sprites and ganis required to do so moreso than it is a question of scripting.

[Inverness]

When Graal3D was introduced I was hoping the bodies would be more anime-like and not with the small bodies and large heads

[PrinceOfKenshin]

Well i mean i think if i can reprogram graalshop i could make it so that you can do 3d animations.

[Googi]

Originally Posted by PrinceOfKenshin

Well i mean i think if i can reprogram graalshop i could make it so that you can do 3d animations.

You don't have to reprogram Graalshop, you just have to make a whole lot of 3D sprites.

[Inspiration]

Originally Posted by Inverness

When Graal3D was introduced I was hoping the bodies would be more anime-like and not with the small bodies and large heads

The last thing the universe needs is more anime-like crap.

[PrinceOfKenshin]

Originally Posted by Googi

You don't have to reprogram Graalshop, you just have to make a whole lot of 3D sprites.

True but i was thinking of making it so that others could go 3D too..you more user friendly i guess xD. I'm a pretty good ganier, If i redid Graalshop i would probably either use Visual C++ or Java depends = )

[Tyhm]

Ya know what'd be awesome?

If when G3D comes out, they've boiled down all the Classic characters to a set of predefined bodies and a couple of heads with a bunch of Add-Ons (Fung Si Yan head with blue eyes, with Bruges helmet, etc) so Oldschool playerworlds can port character designs straight over.
Also cool, if Stefan got clever and made it so you can skin your shield with oldschool shield graphics. I'd laugh...
But the ultimate would still be if you could have a standard PW with 3D Sections...Take a 2d dungeon, add a Z coordinate and Boom, it's G3D Ready.
Never happen though, dev tends to be every man for hisself...see also: Classic still isn't 100% Converted to Serverside Scripting (Well, it's Converted, but not all of it Exists...)

[PrinceOfKenshin]

I would like to talk to Stefan about this but i never get to talk to him. So i'm gonna work on some 3D sprites. Then try with graalshop, but if i doesn't work around probably christmas next year i will most likely re-program graalshop with java because im taking an AP class on it so i will know it a lot better by then. Unless i can learn how to do it other wise. I really just don't know where to start

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by PrinceOfKenshin

I was wondering if it is possible to go 3D with graal. Like lets say i buy a server would it be possible for me to go 3D? that something i really want to do and hope to start soon if it is possible

Not possible. Graal3D is not released to the public yet, and, even if it were - there are no development tools released for it.

[Inverness]

Originally Posted by Inspiration

The last thing the universe needs is more anime-like crap.

I pity you, you have yet to see the light.

[Googi]

Originally Posted by PrinceOfKenshin

True but i was thinking of making it so that others could go 3D too..

I don't see how reprogramming graalshop would make "going 3D" much easier unless said reprogramming involved creating some kind of totally new non-gani file format.

[Inspiration]

Originally Posted by Inverness

I pity you, you have yet to see the light.

I've watched Anime before.

Most of it is either mindless random crap going on for no reason, or pseudo-intellectual garbage that tricks 15 year olds into thinking they're smart because they "get it".

However, Cowboy Bebop remains awesome above all else.


OFFTOPIC +10

[Inverness]

Originally Posted by Inspiration

I've watched Anime before.

Most of it is either mindless random crap going on for no reason, or pseudo-intellectual garbage that tricks 15 year olds into thinking they're smart because they "get it".

However, Cowboy Bebop remains awesome above all else.


OFFTOPIC +10

Watch Bleach, yes? Google: Dattebayo

[zokemon]

Originally Posted by elite_master

1. You'll need the best MONEY can buy, I doubt anyone on graal, even the legendary GST kids can go and script your stuff, you'd probably have to hire a special coder for that.

You're very wrong sir, I have already scripted in GS2 for Graal3D. It isn't THAT hard.

Originally Posted by elite_master

2. You'll need some awesome graphics artists, GK's artists got nothing on 3D, yo. That's probably cash out of your pocket, too.

3D art isn't so much harder as it is just different. You have more types of graphics to do such as textures and 3D models.

Originally Posted by elite_master

3. It's gonna be a LOT of work. If you don't have the cash, don't expect much.

It may be a lot of work but I don't see how you are putting cash into all of your equations.


To everyone else:

I am surprised this topic even got past a single page with not a single person posting that this is NOT possible (until Ziro did). Graal3D is currently closed to the public and very VERY few people are even allowed on the test server. It's not like you can just put your server in "3D Mode" like you do to make a server gs2 compatible. Graal3D runs on an completely different client almost (even though it is under the same executable) as all the graphic work and program dynamics are completely different.

In short: Just wait till Stefan announces that he is releasing Graal3D for the developers, then you can work on your project. Until then: DON'T BUG HIM ABOUT IT. He gets tons of people pestering him about Graal3D all the time and it does no good. If people need to bug him about it, leave that to the GST and the staff on Kingdoms Debug (and Zone Debug respectively).

[Tyhm]

And those people who want to pre-dev so when it Is released they'll have a head-start? Any advice at all, or do you expect them to just sit on their hands and try not to lose interest?

[UberModeKappa]

Originally Posted by Tyhm

And those people who want to pre-dev so when it Is released they'll have a head-start? Any advice at all, or do you expect them to just sit on their hands and try not to lose interest?

I've been sitting on my hands since Graal 3D was announced. x.x
They're numb now btw.

[Googi]

Originally Posted by Inverness

Watch Bleach, yes? Google: Dattebayo

Dude, Bleach is on TV now.

[zokemon]

Originally Posted by Tyhm

And those people who want to pre-dev so when it Is released they'll have a head-start? Any advice at all, or do you expect them to just sit on their hands and try not to lose interest?

We all want to pre-dev but Stefan hasn't given anyone that chance yet, sadly (except for some select individuals who worked on the pre-Graal v4 version of Graal3D). My advise is as follows for aspiring G3D developers (I am only giving this based on what I saw when I worked on Graal3D before v4):

For scripters - Learn GS2 and master it. I don't think GS1 will even work in Graal3D and if it did, you wouldn't be able to do much of anything. Graal3D is heavily object based so get make sure you have all the basics down pat! (Such as you should know the four types of variables by heart. Spoiler: Float, String, Array, Object. Learn what they do any what they mean ;o).

For graphic artists - Graphics in Graal3D can be split into 3 groups: Textures, Models and GUI/2D.
The only one you can really practice on Graal right now would be the GUI/2D type. So I suggest you learn (if you wish to follow that path in graphics) GUI graphics like the back of your hand. 2D basically just includes icons and any other image you could slap onto a GUI. Some textures could be considered 2D art as well such as those placed on 2D models.
Textures just include any type of bitmap that is slapped onto a model (whether 2D or 3D) or terrain. The most obvious of these are terrain textures such as grass. Models such as the player also use textures such as the player's head.
For models I can't really help you since I haven't played with tools for making character models. You might want to check out some half-life model editors or some model editors for Torque game engine. I am pretty sure Graal3D will use those types of files.

For levelers - Leveling isn't tiling anymore since there are no tiles! Leveling now includes placement of objects on terrain and modeling buildings and such (architecture). The latter of the two doesn't use the same model files as character models. Instead it uses .map files which can be derived from the same level files used for half life. Check out Mido's guide to making buildings and such on the forums (use the search function). Placement of objects will be all done in game and isn't really hard to learn at all.

For animators - The "ganis" for Graal3D are animation files for character models rather then image sprites. Again, I never played with 3D animating so I can't really help you, sorry.

For sound and music artists - Sound and music won't really change in 3D to much so keep doing the same stuff you're doing right now!

And that's all!

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by zokemon

We all want to pre-dev but Stefan hasn't given anyone that chance yet, sadly (except for some select individuals who worked on the pre-Graal v4 version of Graal3D). My advise is as follows for aspiring G3D developers (I am only giving this based on what I saw when I worked on Graal3D before v4):

For scripters - Learn GS2 and master it. I don't think GS1 will even work in Graal3D and if it did, you wouldn't be able to do much of anything. Graal3D is heavily object based so get make sure you have all the basics down pat! (Such as you should know the four types of variables by heart. Spoiler: Float, String, Array, Object. Learn what they do any what they mean ;o).

For graphic artists - Graphics in Graal3D can be split into 3 groups: Textures, Models and GUI/2D.
The only one you can really practice on Graal right now would be the GUI/2D type. So I suggest you learn (if you wish to follow that path in graphics) GUI graphics like the back of your hand. 2D basically just includes icons and any other image you could slap onto a GUI. Some textures could be considered 2D art as well such as those placed on 2D models.
Textures just include any type of bitmap that is slapped onto a model (whether 2D or 3D) or terrain. The most obvious of these are terrain textures such as grass. Models such as the player also use textures such as the player's head.
For models I can't really help you since I haven't played with tools for making character models. You might want to check out some half-life model editors or some model editors for Torque game engine. I am pretty sure Graal3D will use those types of files.

For levelers - Leveling isn't tiling anymore since there are no tiles! Leveling now includes placement of objects on terrain and modeling buildings and such (architecture). The latter of the two doesn't use the same model files as character models. Instead it uses .map files which can be derived from the same level files used for half life. Check out Mido's guide to making buildings and such on the forums (use the search function). Placement of objects will be all done in game and isn't really hard to learn at all.

For animators - The "ganis" for Graal3D are animation files for character models rather then image sprites. Again, I never played with 3D animating so I can't really help you, sorry.

For sound and music artists - Sound and music won't really change in 3D to much so keep doing the same stuff you're doing right now!

And that's all!

Meh. Good job! <3

[Tyhm]

Originally Posted by zokemon

We all want to pre-dev but Stefan hasn't given anyone that chance yet, sadly (except for some select individuals who worked on the pre-Graal v4 version of Graal3D). My advise is as follows for aspiring G3D developers (I am only giving this based on what I saw when I worked on Graal3D before v4):

For scripters - Learn GS2 and master it. I don't think GS1 will even work in Graal3D and if it did, you wouldn't be able to do much of anything. Graal3D is heavily object based so get make sure you have all the basics down pat! (Such as you should know the four types of variables by heart. Spoiler: Float, String, Array, Object. Learn what they do any what they mean ;o).

For graphic artists - Graphics in Graal3D can be split into 3 groups: Textures, Models and GUI/2D.
The only one you can really practice on Graal right now would be the GUI/2D type. So I suggest you learn (if you wish to follow that path in graphics) GUI graphics like the back of your hand. 2D basically just includes icons and any other image you could slap onto a GUI. Some textures could be considered 2D art as well such as those placed on 2D models.
Textures just include any type of bitmap that is slapped onto a model (whether 2D or 3D) or terrain. The most obvious of these are terrain textures such as grass. Models such as the player also use textures such as the player's head.
For models I can't really help you since I haven't played with tools for making character models. You might want to check out some half-life model editors or some model editors for Torque game engine. I am pretty sure Graal3D will use those types of files.

For levelers - Leveling isn't tiling anymore since there are no tiles! Leveling now includes placement of objects on terrain and modeling buildings and such (architecture). The latter of the two doesn't use the same model files as character models. Instead it uses .map files which can be derived from the same level files used for half life. Check out Mido's guide to making buildings and such on the forums (use the search function). Placement of objects will be all done in game and isn't really hard to learn at all.

For animators - The "ganis" for Graal3D are animation files for character models rather then image sprites. Again, I never played with 3D animating so I can't really help you, sorry.

For sound and music artists - Sound and music won't really change in 3D to much so keep doing the same stuff you're doing right now!

And that's all!

So could 3D things be made in Halflife and ported over?

[zokemon]

Originally Posted by Tyhm

So could 3D things be made in Halflife and ported over?

As far as the buildings, yeah. I'm pretty sure the character models can too but I am not 100% sure.

[janett01]

valve used milkshape as 3d program
graal uses maya as far as i know

[PrinceOfKenshin]

Originally Posted by janett01

valve used milkshape as 3d program
graal uses maya as far as i know

yay maya is a really good program from what i heard. Milkshape is meh =/ . Im not sure about valve.

[elite_master]

Originally Posted by zokemon

You're very wrong sir, I have already scripted in GS2 for Graal3D. It isn't THAT hard.

Ouch, why is there not another G3D server yet?

Originally Posted by zokemon

3D art isn't so much harder as it is just different. You have more types of graphics to do such as textures and 3D models.).

This is where cash comes in, unless you're this persons best friend, where are you going to get your motivation? "IT GONA BE UP SOON I PROMIS!!", yeah. Lots of motivation there for 5x more work then it takes to get a classic server up.

Originally Posted by zokemon

It may be a lot of work but I don't see how you are putting cash into all of your equations.

Make a G3D server. If you have the motivation to even get ONE huge thing on it, let me know. I'll give you 10 bucks.

[Tyhm]

Nothing I haven't said before, but...
See, I think the whole infrastructure needs a rehaul: How we make servers, it's not gonna change just because there's a new technology on which to attempt to make them.
Is it gonna be restricted to Only Stefan's allowed to make G3D servers, like Only Stefan (was) allowed to use the Mudlib and 3D Terrain? There's actually a fair chance of this, as to do otherwise would arguably be subletting the Torque engine...
Are we gonna be allowed to develop for the G3D Server? If not, Graal's losing out on a big chunk of what makes it awesome...
But that aside, let's say it's just like any other server: You register your own G3D Server, you try and find a staff, you go Under Construction for a year, and...what? You've got a team of maybe 10 people, and there are 10 worlds just like yours. You're all building toward similar goals: You all want to make your own default movement, your own baddies, etcetera. If you had a spy on the other guy's team, you could steal the baddy he's developing and edit it to work with your server, but that would be naughty; likewise, he could borrow your movement script and edit it, but you're not gonna give aid to your competition. Because all Graal servers are in competition, you gotta be better than UN so you can steal their players...and that doesn't necessarily mean making an objectively better server, just that UN has to be a Worse server than yours...so servers are courting each others' staff, refusing to share developments (or even bother asking)...
I almost got back into developing Classic. I realized the big thing missing was baddies. I asked STEFAN, The Magnanimous Scripter, if I could take a peek at the old baddy scripts he used on Kingdoms. He never got around to sending 'em to me. Even among OFFICIAL servers, there's no cooperation. (I asked Beorn too, he just can't comply without Stefan's permission).
The Movement Script took years to develop (if you start when Com013 started on it anyway). Graal2001 had one from the very beginning. Nobody shares it, and nobody accepts it.
We've got a development "community" made up of everyone at individual desks making sure nobody's copying. This isn't a test, it's supposed to be a meeting, isn't it?

[PrinceOfKenshin]

Originally Posted by Tyhm

Nothing I haven't said before, but...
See, I think the whole infrastructure needs a rehaul: How we make servers, it's not gonna change just because there's a new technology on which to attempt to make them.
Is it gonna be restricted to Only Stefan's allowed to make G3D servers, like Only Stefan (was) allowed to use the Mudlib and 3D Terrain? There's actually a fair chance of this, as to do otherwise would arguably be subletting the Torque engine...
Are we gonna be allowed to develop for the G3D Server? If not, Graal's losing out on a big chunk of what makes it awesome...
But that aside, let's say it's just like any other server: You register your own G3D Server, you try and find a staff, you go Under Construction for a year, and...what? You've got a team of maybe 10 people, and there are 10 worlds just like yours. You're all building toward similar goals: You all want to make your own default movement, your own baddies, etcetera. If you had a spy on the other guy's team, you could steal the baddy he's developing and edit it to work with your server, but that would be naughty; likewise, he could borrow your movement script and edit it, but you're not gonna give aid to your competition. Because all Graal servers are in competition, you gotta be better than UN so you can steal their players...and that doesn't necessarily mean making an objectively better server, just that UN has to be a Worse server than yours...so servers are courting each others' staff, refusing to share developments (or even bother asking)...
I almost got back into developing Classic. I realized the big thing missing was baddies. I asked STEFAN, The Magnanimous Scripter, if I could take a peek at the old baddy scripts he used on Kingdoms. He never got around to sending 'em to me. Even among OFFICIAL servers, there's no cooperation. (I asked Beorn too, he just can't comply without Stefan's permission).
The Movement Script took years to develop (if you start when Com013 started on it anyway). Graal2001 had one from the very beginning. Nobody shares it, and nobody accepts it.
We've got a development "community" made up of everyone at individual desks making sure nobody's copying. This isn't a test, it's supposed to be a meeting, isn't it?

I get what you mean but i want to make a 3D server so that Graal has more chances of becoming better. Not so that i can be known as the best server owner or whatever. I would rather see graal improve and to be shared with other people. Graal has become like a home to me and i want to see it bigger and better. Sure getting more people will make it so that are a lot more unexperienced people. But that means there is more room for ideas and more room for advancing. I don't know i just don't know anymore

[xXziroXx]

Tyhm, please learn to space your posts .. Only reason I don't read them is that it's too clumped together, I bet your idea's and stuff are great.

[Tyhm]

Originally Posted by PrinceOfKenshin

I get what you mean but i want to make a 3D server so that Graal has more chances of becoming better. Not so that i can be known as the best server owner or whatever. I would rather see graal improve and to be shared with other people. Graal has become like a home to me and i want to see it bigger and better. Sure getting more people will make it so that are a lot more unexperienced people. But that means there is more room for ideas and more room for advancing. I don't know i just don't know anymore

I think it was Shaun before he left?, had some idea for a server where you were on a spaceship and visited various worlds...and maybe he said it, or maybe I just thought it, but if the regulations prohibit you from beaming down with off-world technology, that'd be a pretty beefy server...defend the ship, then beam down to the Ancient Greek server-planet and go all 300 on the persian army, then beam up and go to the Zone server-planet...

I digress, but my point is: Yeah, we should have a 3D server that everyone can participate in without spreading the servers/playercount too thin, or compromising the relative pride of the developers. Ideally, anyway. (Thus Hubworld - if we're all one big community of Graal, we're all only Borrowing players from each other for the span of a quest or two; the players are playing Graal and visiting servers, like FFX or Windwaker when you Visit an island for a time...)

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

Tyhm, please learn to space your posts .. Only reason I don't read them is that it's too clumped together, I bet your idea's and stuff are great.

Hmm, that's fair. I'll take it under advisement: I tend to just start a rant, then post it before checking to see how All-One-Paragraph it is. :-D

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by Tyhm

I think it was Shaun before he left?, had some idea for a server where you were on a spaceship and visited various worlds...and maybe he said it, or maybe I just thought it, but if the regulations prohibit you from beaming down with off-world technology, that'd be a pretty beefy server...defend the ship, then beam down to the Ancient Greek server-planet and go all 300 on the persian army, then beam up and go to the Zone server-planet...

I digress, but my point is: Yeah, we should have a 3D server that everyone can participate in without spreading the servers/playercount too thin, or compromising the relative pride of the developers. Ideally, anyway. (Thus Hubworld - if we're all one big community of Graal, we're all only Borrowing players from each other for the span of a quest or two; the players are playing Graal and visiting servers, like FFX or Windwaker when you Visit an island for a time...)



Hmm, that's fair. I'll take it under advisement: I tend to just start a rant, then post it before checking to see how All-One-Paragraph it is. :-D

Way better, I even read through the entire post!