Bell, the New PWA? - Page 4

Lord Sephiroth · #**121** 02-12-2007, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darlene159

I really don't see what the fuss is about, maybe because I don't want to be a global.

SHUT UP FOR CHRISTS SAKE.

We don't give a DAMN about being Global stop TALKING DOWN TO US and STOP PRETENDING LIKE YOU KNOW US.

Read what we say, think about what we say, and quit making assumptions and judgements.

Darlene159 · #**122** 02-12-2007, 02:46 AM

How about if we back up, and try to have a discussion, instead of calling names, and getting angry?

Devil · #**123** 02-12-2007, 02:48 AM

Is there a problem with not going with the crowd Darlene?

All I see is when something happens around here, everyone goes with the flow and doesn't give their real opinion, then when people like myself, Andy or L Sep give a REAL opinion on how we feel, we receive this kind of crap?

Lord Sephiroth · #**124** 02-12-2007, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darlene159

How about if we back up, and try to have a discussion, instead of calling names, and getting angry?

Because when we try to have a discussion you get some clouded impression that you know everything about us and you make judgements and talk down to us, then you try to shrug off the situation as if we're your disobedient children complaining in a supermarket.

Contrary to popular belief, even though we may not have the IMPRESSIVE EXISTENTIAL TITLE OF SUPERMOD, we are people and we have valid opinions and points that you need to start listening to.

Devil · #**125** 02-12-2007, 02:49 AM

I honestly think I couldn't put my point across better than L Sep can at the moment, that sums it all up in his post.. we pay the wages around here, don't forget that.

Andy0687 · #**126** 02-12-2007, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devil

we pay the wages around here, don't forget that.

I dont think they will forget so fast as they just dont care. Money is already in their pocket for at least 1 upgrade.

If we arent actively upgrading, we arent considered customers.

xXziroXx · #**127** 02-12-2007, 02:52 AM

Im beginning to wonder if you guys just disagree for the sake of it, or if you actually feel the way you do. Who the HELL cares? Lets use an example!

If you own a shop IRL, wouldnt you hire your FRIENDS if you knew they were CAPABLE of doing the job needed? Of course you would before searching elsewhere! Is it different on Graal or any other online based game/site/business? NO! For crying out loud, stop behaving like irrational children.

Andy0687 · #**128** 02-12-2007, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

If you own a shop IRL, wouldnt you hire your FRIENDS if you knew they were CAPABLE of doing the job needed? Of course you would before searching elsewhere!

I would actually still search elsewhere to make sure I have the most qualified canadate.

Buisness does NOT grow strictly on friendship.

What part of that is so hard to understand?

Darlene159 · #**129** 02-12-2007, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devil

Is there a problem with not going with the crowd Darlene?

All I see is when something happens around here, everyone goes with the flow and doesn't give their real opinion, then when people like myself, Andy or L Sep give a REAL opinion on how we feel, we receive this kind of crap?

Everyone goes with the flow? There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with something, or having our own opinions. It becomes a problem when people become angry because the other person isn't agreeing with them. Just because a person does not agree with another person doesn't mean the point isn't understood.

xXziroXx · #**130** 02-12-2007, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy0687

I would actually still search elsewhere to make sure I have the most qualified canadate.

Buisness does NOT grow strictly on friendship.

What part of that is so hard to understand?

In alot of cases, YES - it does. What part of THAT is so hard to understand?

Devil · #**131** 02-12-2007, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

Im beginning to wonder if you guys just disagree for the sake of it, or if you actually feel the way you do. Who the HELL cares? Lets use an example!

If you own a shop IRL, wouldnt you hire your FRIENDS if you knew they were CAPABLE of doing the job needed? Of course you would before searching elsewhere! Is it different on Graal or any other online based game/site/business? NO! For crying out loud, stop behaving like irrational children.

The words of a man who knows nothing of business.

If my friends came to me and said "Hey I want to work with you, you earn alot of money, we want some too" they can go to hell. You don't hire friends in business, you keep them seperate or it's trouble city.

Go learn something before you speak of it please.

Rufus · #**132** 02-12-2007, 02:57 AM

You all seem to be paralleling a Graal Online job to a real life paid job. Well first off, these staff are not being paid, other then Ibonic and Lyndzey (until she disappeared). Secondly, on how many other games do you get job applications handed out? I don't think such a thing happens on games like Morld of Marcraft or anywhere else. For starters, Graal is far too personal with players, which then makes every single issue seem to be against them, as a person -- this is one of the main downfalls of Graal. So you're not personally linked with Bell? Good, I don't see why you should need to be really, other then for pulling strings.

The argument of not knowing Bell seems pretty trivial to me, is it because you all would love to be friends with her? She is a lovely person, I don't blame you. I know Bell didn't desire to become PWA, she is not like that, she has never been power hungry, ever. Infact Bell has sat as Assistant GP Administrator for years now, doing every single piece of work, yet hasn't complained? I also know she works hard (sometimes too much, for other people), and has a lot of experience doing some of the things PWA do.

People complained about the lack of global activity, Bell has been hired, problem solved. If the real issue is the fact that you wanted to be hired yourselves, well, just because Bell was hired doesn't mean they won't add anyone else in the near future though, does it?

Lord Sephiroth · #**133** 02-12-2007, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darlene159

Everyone goes with the flow? There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with something, or having our own opinions. It becomes a problem when people become angry because the other person isn't agreeing with them. Just because a person does not agree with another person doesn't mean the point isn't understood.

No, it becomes a problem when the person chooses to disregard our points, whether understood or not. So far I've stated the main point of this argument about 3-4 times, Devil and james have done so more than that, and yet every post you make you make some abstract connection that because we disagree with how Bell got the job, we want to be globals all of a sudden.

Re-read that paragraph about 8 times, then respond, I don't think it gets much clearer than that but I dunno with you guys it's pretty hard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rufus

You seem to be paralleling a Graal Online job to a real life paid job.

No, that's what THEY'RE saying, we're just building off their excuses.

Andy0687 · #**134** 02-12-2007, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

In alot of cases, YES - it does. What part of THAT is so hard to understand?

Prove it then dude. Where are your examples of buisnesses that became successful by hiring only or mostly friends?

xXziroXx · #**135** 02-12-2007, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devil

The words of a man who knows nothing of business.

If my friends came to me and said "Hey I want to work with you, you earn alot of money, we want some too" they can go to hell. You don't hire friends in business, you keep them seperate or it's trouble city.

Go learn something before you speak of it please.

Oh yeah, I just forgot that I spent the last 3 years learning how to become a successful businessman. Duh, silly me. What part of "if they are CAPABLE" did you miss me saying?

Devil · #**136** 02-12-2007, 03:00 AM

You didn't prove your point, it's a stupid point you made. Show Andy what business became successful from only hiring friends?

Someone mentioned earlier that Houdini isn't head of PWA, who is then? and shouldn't Houdini be told of these things?

What if Houdini had an inability to work alongside Bell because of personal issues, was anyone going to bring this up to Houdini before she was hired.. maybe atleast ASK his opinion on the matter? Ofcourse not, this is Graal.

Rufus · #**137** 02-12-2007, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devil

Someone mentioned earlier that Houdini isn't head of PWA, who is then? and shouldn't Houdini be told of these things?

Ibonic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devil

What if Houdini had an inability to work alongside Bell because of personal issues, was anyone going to bring this up to Houdini before she was hired.. maybe atleast ASK his opinion on the matter? Ofcourse not, this is Graal.

That's his problem really, isn't it? I'm not sure if you actually know Bell, but maybe you should research how many people don't get on with her before assuming things like this.

Andy0687 · #**138** 02-12-2007, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rufus

Secondly, on how many other games do you get job applications handed out?

Almost every single one actually.

Blizzard always has applications out for Game Masters
Gravity does also

I could go on and on, just because there are MORE jobs on graal they can hire for, dosent mean no other company ever does.

The only thing is, with the other buisnesses, you have to have to APPLY and GET HIRED by having a certain set of SKILLS.

Devil · #**139** 02-12-2007, 03:05 AM

It's called an example of a possibility, you are still not understanding.

Darlene159 · #**140** 02-12-2007, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devil

Someone mentioned earlier that Houdini isn't head of PWA, who is then? and shouldn't Houdini be told of these things?

What if Houdini had an inability to work alongside Bell because of personal issues, was anyone going to bring this up to Houdini before she was hired.. maybe atleast ASK his opinion on the matter? Ofcourse not, this is Graal.

I don't think there is a pwa admin, but Houdiniman should have been told/consulted with (unless there is some very good reason why they didn't), this I agree with as he will be working with her.

xXziroXx · #**141** 02-12-2007, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devil

You didn't prove your point, it's a stupid point you made. Show Andy what business became successful from only hiring friends?

Someone mentioned earlier that Houdini isn't head of PWA, who is then? and shouldn't Houdini be told of these things?

What if Houdini had an inability to work alongside Bell because of personal issues, was anyone going to bring this up to Houdini before she was hired.. maybe atleast ASK his opinion on the matter? Ofcourse not, this is Graal.

A friend to a close friend of mine owns a snowboarding business that exists out of 2 shops plus another facility where you can pay for private lessons to learn how to snowboard. I think they are 6 or 7 people running it all, and guess what - all of them except ONE have been friends since they were kids. They make quite some money too.. except this year, since the snow didnt really come until the middle of January.

And the question here wasnt about Houdini being head of PWA or not, it was about hiring friends just because they were friends with you.

Rufus · #**142** 02-12-2007, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy0687

Almost every single one actually.

Blizzard always has applications out for Game Masters
Gravity does also

I could go on and on, just because there are MORE jobs on graal they can hire for, dosent mean no other company ever does.

The only thing is, with the other buisnesses, you have to have to APPLY and GET HIRED by having a certain set of SKILLS.

Find me some links of servers that aren't private based.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devil

It's called an example of a possibility, you are still not understanding.

Your example is void, do you believe that this kind of rubbish wasn't thought through? Was she hired straight off the bat? I don't think so. They have been friends for over 5 years now.

Devil · #**143** 02-12-2007, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

A friend to a close friend of mine owns a snowboarding business that exists out of 2 shops plus another facility where you can pay for private lessons to learn how to snowboard. I think they are 6 or 7 people running it all, and guess what - all of them except ONE have been friends since they were kids. They make quite some money too.. except this year, since the snow didnt really come until the middle of January.

And the question here wasnt about Houdini being head of PWA or not, it was about hiring friends just because they were friends with you.

Obviously I'm pointing out flaws with this whole ordeal with Bell, PWA etc..
I can bring up Houdini if I want too.

There is no proof there in your first statement, I own 17 Taco Bell stores, I have 10 million dollars, I am a success.

xXziroXx · #**144** 02-12-2007, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devil

Obviously I'm pointing out flaws with this whole ordeal with Bell, PWA etc..
I can bring up Houdini if I want too.

There is no proof there in your first statement, I own 17 Taco Bell stores, I have 10 million dollars, I am a success.

Whatever. Im tired, im going to bed. Obviously there is flaws in the current PWA team, but atleast they are showing signs of improvements. Hiring Bell was just the first step towards a bigger goal.. but last time I checked, Houdini was head of PWA and I am not aware of a change in that. It is very odd that he was not aware of the hiring of Bell until he read it on the forums.

But instead of pointing out the flaws and whining about it, how about trying to help Stefan & Co. to fix it by being a little more positive and giving ideas on how too improve.

Andy0687 · #**145** 02-12-2007, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rufus

Find me some links of servers that aren't private based.

Go to Blizzards website, click EMPLOYMENT.
Go to Ragnaroks website, click EMPLOYMENT.

Pretty easy to follow to me.

Quote:

They have been friends for over 5 years now.

I dont see what this has to do with anything. Now you are basing the legitimacy of her hiring on the fact they have been friends for awhile?

This just gets worse.

Devil · #**146** 02-12-2007, 03:14 AM

Lol, that's easy to help Graal, from my country anyway, but why should I give ideas, which I have in the past, for them to just be forgotten about and go down the drain. The company has to help itself. I wonder how many prospective customers have viewed these forums and said "Stuff this, these guys aren't getting my money" and moved onto other, better games.

Anyway, Rufus, would you be saying the things you are if you weren't friends with Ibonic and Bell?

You seem to think that myself, Lord Sep and Andy are friends or something, we don't talk on Graal, AIM, MSN or on the forums, we're just a bunch of people who all feel the same way, whereas you're up Ibonic and Bells' so we know why you have those opinions you have.

killerogue · #**147** 02-12-2007, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

Hiring Bell was just the first step towards a bigger goal.

Sensible as I said before. This hiring could lead to Stefan and Unix trusting players again to hold global positions. Tho, I am agreeing with Devil, James and Sephiroth.

Devil · #**148** 02-12-2007, 03:17 AM

Also, I am not ripping on her credibility, nor am I bagging her, so I can understand that this thread is still open for that reason, and I respect that, it's about time we could have some decent discussions around here without crap being closed every second.

Rufus · #**149** 02-12-2007, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy0687

Go to Blizzards website, click EMPLOYMENT.
Go to Ragnaroks website, click EMPLOYMENT.

That is extremely different to advertising on a forum. They're advertising employment on a corporate site for game developers outside of the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy0687

I dont see what this has to do with anything. Now you are basing the legitimacy of her hiring on the fact they have been friends for awhile?

No. "Was she hired straight off the bat? I don't think so." is what is being implied, which isn't the case. You're giving off the impression she was hired straight away, as though she made friends with Ibonic, stuck her head up his ass and got a job. This is not the case either

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devil

Anyway, Rufus, would you be saying the things you are if you weren't friends with Ibonic and Bell?

You seem to think that myself, Lord Sep and Andy are friends or something, we don't talk on Graal, AIM, MSN or on the forums, we're just a bunch of people who all feel the same way, whereas you're up Ibonic and Bells' so we know why you have those opinions you have.

You seem to believe have some twisted interpretation of friendship, I don't know, maybe you're not familiar with it but I don't believe, not have I ever had to have my head up someone's ass to be their friend. Also, you'd think I were Bell's best friend the way you're going on, I'm not I just understand why she is what she is now. Yes, I would be saying the same thing, even if I hated both of them, because I respect both of them and what they do.

Andy0687 · #**150** 02-12-2007, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rufus

That is extremely different to advertising on a forum. They're advertising employment on a corporate site for game developers outside of the game.

Some positions are not development, on Ragnaroks site you can see they had a post for GM hiring.

Im not sure of all the positions that Blizzard has but I can tell from a quick glance that they are all not development.

Quote:

No. "Was she hired straight off the bat? I don't think so." is what is being implied, which isn't the case. You're giving off the impression she was hired straight away, as though she made friends with Ibonic, stuck her head up his ass and got a job. This is not the case either

I dont even want to arugue with this because now you are just making stuff up. No one has even tried to say that stuff.

Ugh. why do you have to be so complicated and just realise what points we are trying to make. Everyone knew from the Getgo that Bell and Ibonic must have been good friends.

This is just how it happens historically.
Nemesis hired Kisharha didnt he?
So what if its different, the basis the same.

They didnt even try to amuse their community.

Infernix · #**151** 02-12-2007, 04:49 AM

All in all this argument only brings up the fact that Graal hires its staff and developers through unprofessional means.

Yet, will this argument change anything? No. Bell will still be a PWA and Cyber w/e will still continue to hire how they like. And when you think about it, Im sure they dont care. They've some how come up with this scheme to get hundreds of players to develop a game for them for free. And have us pay them to make them money. Funny isn't it when you think about it.

Devil · #**152** 02-12-2007, 04:53 AM

There's a difference between making bucket loads, or a measly wage.

Which do you think they've made?

Infernix · #**153** 02-12-2007, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devil

There's a difference between making bucket loads, or a measly wage.

Which do you think they've made?

Theyve made a measly wage, but they are making money are they not?(Or were making money) Money is Money to me. Let it be 1 dollar or 100.

Devil · #**154** 02-12-2007, 05:00 AM

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. It's not like they've hit the jackpot though with their scheme.

smirt362 · #**155** 02-12-2007, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devil

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. It's not like they've hit the jackpot though with their scheme.

They aren't the only ones to let the players come up with the content either.

Andy0687 · #**156** 02-12-2007, 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devil

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. It's not like they've hit the jackpot though with their scheme.

They could have at one point and had enough money leftover to hire some REAL staff instead of picking at people who want to have some kind of e-power over people who could mostly care less about them =|

Devil · #**157** 02-12-2007, 05:05 AM

I totally agree, I've seen other online games who let the players submit content, and those companies are far from poor.. so I wonder what happened

HoudiniMan · #**158** 02-12-2007, 09:04 AM

I just wanted to point out to whoever said --Chris-- hired calani - calani was hired before --Chris--... so I imagine that would've been a pretty neat trick to have her hired.

Devil · #**159** 02-12-2007, 09:07 AM

So what is your job Houdini, just an everday PWA?

HoudiniMan · #**160** 02-12-2007, 09:20 AM

Depends on who you ask.

I have more rights than the other PWAs and I do almost every single support ticket for PWs for the last 2 years with the recent exception of Bell helping the last 1-2 days. I've got nearly 4 years of experience, having been hired at the same time as Spark.

On the other hand, while I have the global right to edit bans, I can't globally edit comments (?) and it has been this way for -years-. Also, I have no authority to lead the team other than "eager beaver" chores like updating the playerworld rules. I haven't been consulted on the last two PWA hirings (Malinko and Bell, not to group them together in any other way). I have little to no contact with the directors.

So... my job is pretty much to do the best I can with what I've got.