Question answered, thread closed. = New Rule - Page 2

Mykel · #41 10-11-2006, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

I've still answered this.

Your answer to this is that "it is not against the rules for the moderator to do this." There is only one problem with this: The moderators don't have a set of rules. If there were to be one set of rules, wouldn't it most certainly to be to enforce the rules?

Not one person has said it is against the rules. That isn't the point. No one is argueing your point on that.

We simply think it is wrong and would like a discussion about it. Neither one of you have yet to address the main issue. You have danced around it and have picked apart meaningless pieces of arguements that don't apply.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darlene159

Perfect example of why so many discussions don't work on the Graal forums. It is people like you that ruin it for the rest....

How do people like him ruin it? So what you basically are saying is that because people like him say things that aren't approaite, that the rest of us don't get a fair say?

You are punishing us all for his (and people like him) actions?

Listen to that. That is absolutely horrible moderating. There have been more than a few competant posts in this thread about the subject at hand, and you have yet to reply to one of them. You instead have stuck to replying to the ignorant ones and you seem to think that those prove your point.

Answer the tough questions, not the easy ones. We all know that was a stupid comment on his part, you don't have to point out the obvious. Point out why you are closing threads that don't break the rules.

Googi · #42 10-11-2006, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

I've still answered this.

Where?

Sam · #43 10-11-2006, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Googi

Where?

here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

...
However, I think we got the message from you (community) and we will handle it in the future more sensitive.

Googi · #44 10-11-2006, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

here:

That isn't exactly the kind of "answer" I was talking about, but in this case that's probably more of a linguistic issue.

Curt1zzle · #45 10-11-2006, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by konidias

Who is really to judge when a thread has served it's purpose?

its

Stephen · #46 10-11-2006, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curt1zzle

its

Excellent use of your 8hourly post, love.

Infernix · #47 10-11-2006, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darlene159

Perfect example of why so many discussions don't work on the Graal forums. It is people like you that ruin it for the rest....

It was a Metaphor, please act your age. I didnt ruin anything infact I started this thread so its pretty obvious I started somthing. Will it do any good, I dont know its up to you.

Comparing you to George Bush was actually me trying to make you think about your "mistakes" and how they eventually start to add up... Sorry if you took it as a huge insult. Just dont understand why you pretend just like Bush that you have not made any mistakes and that a multiple of people are just crazy.

Ya know last I heard saying "My Bad" or sorry always helped.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen

Excellent use of your 8hourly post, love.

They are unlimited for everyone now.

Darlene159 · #48 10-12-2006, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infernix

Ya know last I heard saying "My Bad" or sorry always helped.

Of course, that is why I have said it many times.

The Evil Within · #49 10-12-2006, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infernix

It was a Metaphor, please act your age. I didnt ruin anything infact I started this thread so its pretty obvious I started somthing. Will it do any good, I dont know its up to you.

Comparing you to George Bush was actually me trying to make you think about your "mistakes" and how they eventually start to add up... Sorry if you took it as a huge insult. Just dont understand why you pretend just like Bush that you have not made any mistakes and that a multiple of people are just crazy.

Ya know last I heard saying "My Bad" or sorry always helped.

They are unlimited for everyone now.

You compared her to Bush, of coarse she is going to take it as an insult. Hell I'd kill someone for doing that to me.

Mykel · #50 10-12-2006, 01:09 AM

Still waiting...

The Evil Within · #51 10-12-2006, 01:15 AM

You guys should go to: forums.delteria.com

Its a rarity to have a thread closed there. No holds barred conversation about either Graal, or just total nonsense, and you don't have to worry about ****ty rules being enforced by ****ty mods. I'm not taking a side here, I don't even know what thread was closed or why it was closed, I'm just saying that if you are complaining about being modded so much, go to the forums where mods barely exist.

Or you guys could just revolt and make your own "Graal Forums" and leave them completely 100% unmodded.

Ya can't really complain about what Darlene is doing though. There are rules that she has to follow to mod these boards, if you want looser rules, then ya gotta go to different boards.

~Fin

Mykel · #52 10-12-2006, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Evil Within

You guys should go to: forums.delteria.com

Its a rarity to have a thread closed there. No holds barred conversation about either Graal, or just total nonsense, and you don't have to worry about ****ty rules being enforced by ****ty mods. I'm not taking a side here, I don't even know what thread was closed or why it was closed, I'm just saying that if you are complaining about being modded so much, go to the forums where mods barely exist.

Or you guys could just revolt and make your own "Graal Forums" and leave them completely 100% unmodded.

Ya can't really complain about what Darlene is doing though. There are rules that she has to follow to mod these boards, if you want looser rules, then ya gotta go to different boards.

~Fin

Actually, people did make other forums. But, as with anything that rivals power of the Admins, discussion of it is not allowed. I wouldn't be surprised if your post is deleted either, just because you are contradicting them (although not really).

The Evil Within · #53 10-12-2006, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mykel

Actually, people did make other forums. But, as with anything that rivals power of the Admins, discussion of it is not allowed. I wouldn't be surprised if your post is deleted either, just because you are contradicting them (although not really).

I don't see why my post would be deleted, I'm pretty sure that other Graal servers are allowed to promote their websites/forums on these boards. I've seen Maloria and Npulse do it before and those posts weren't deleted. :o

Darlene159 · #54 10-12-2006, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mykel

Actually, people did make other forums. But, as with anything that rivals power of the Admins, discussion of it is not allowed. I wouldn't be surprised if your post is deleted either, just because you are contradicting them (although not really).

I explained that situation to you in forum PM's I believe. Don't bring it up here. Graal related sites are allowed.

Mykel · #55 10-12-2006, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darlene159

I explained that situation to you in forum PM's I believe. Don't bring it up here. Graal related sites are allowed.

I wasn't debating what the rule was, simply telling him that a "alternative Graal Online" site was already created, because he suggested creating one.

zim5354 · #56 10-12-2006, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darlene159

I suppose I did it as a way to organise the forums.

They are not only yours, your not the only person that paied for them if I want to post on a topic thats not out of hand (that one wasnt) or if I want to contribute to the awnser a closed topic does no good now does it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darlene159

That is a moderators decision, not a rule.

We need a rule that states that moderators cannot MAKE UP THE RULES AS THEY GO. if you want to avoid this just inforce the rules that are actually written down http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...ad.php?t=64922 there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darlene159

the few angry members who are angry with the infraction system will use any excuse, or any opening to start up their rant again.

Its not the system its how its inforced. When two people basically decide whats wrong or right it differs from person to person you know...Not to mention they have been getting handed out like candy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darlene159

Keep in mind that there is a difference between debating, and people getting angry and getting insultive.

Thing is what you and your other mod palls view as insulting (No naming people in the topic or your post is deleted kk?) is normal to everyone else.

[QUOTE=Darlene159;1229623]There is no rule against arguing per say. There is nothing at all wrong with people disagreeing with each other.
/QUOTE]
How come so many of my freakin post were deleted then for "arguing" please refer to the rules next time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darlene159

Unixmad puts it, makes the forums an unfriendly place, which he clearly does not want.

This makes the fourms unfriendly when someone sees it and thinks of prison camp "Gee I really wana subscribe to prison camp."

Darlene159 · #57 10-12-2006, 02:30 AM

zim5354, I already said that I am not arguing about the rules anymore.
End.

konidias · #58 10-12-2006, 02:35 AM

zim, it's "enforce" lol.

I just think MoonGoddess in particular is over the top with the rules. This is just my opinion and here is what I think should actually be done in the following situations:

1. one or two people start arguing in a thread and taking it off topic but some others are still discussing things

- what NOT to do (ie, Darlene's way): close the thread

- what to do: reply to the thread with a warning that those people are getting out of hand and punishment will occur if they continue. if they do continue, then punish them. do not punish everyone in the thread by closing it.

2. someone says something remotely insulting to someone else

- what NOT to do (ie, Darlene's way): delete the post and warn the person who made it

- what to do: leave it alone! if the person being "insulted" really feels that bothered by it, let them PM you and then you can deal with it. don't just instantly delete anything that vaguely resembles an insult.

3. someone posts a negative opinion about a rule or the way the forums are being run

- what NOT to do (ie, Darlene's way): tell them to deal with it because "the rules are the rules" or give the excuse that "I'm doing whatever Unixmad tells me to do". or the other option, of just deleting/closing the thread so the issue is not resolved. or the other option of telling them to make a support ticket or post in the support forum or some other nonsense.

- what to do: try to see things from the poster's point of view. apologize for any inconvenience you may have caused (these are the customers for crying out loud, don't argue with them) try to change how you do things so that people won't complain so much. if you feel it's not in your power to make a change, then talk to unixmad or someone who can do something about it. do not adapt a "the customer doesn't have a say, it's unixmads way or no way" policy

edit: a proper way to handle my post would not be to argue with me about it. the best thing to do would be to simply acknowledge it. you just said you don't want to argue, so don't. but that also doesn't mean "well I don't want to argue so, THREAD CLOSED!"

Mykel · #59 10-12-2006, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darlene159

zim5354, I already said that I am not arguing about the rules anymore.
End.

I haven't asked you to discuss the rules once. I've asked you to discuss non-rules being enforced. And you haven't. Why must you ignore me?

Darlene159 · #60 10-12-2006, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by konidias

1,2,3

1) Your idea might be ok up to a point.

2 and 3 would be going directly against Unixmad, and No, I am not going to do it.

konidias · #61 10-12-2006, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darlene159

1) Your idea might be ok up to a point.

2 and 3 would be going directly against Unixmad, and No, I am not going to do it.

Are you afraid of him or something? Why not just talk to him about it? You probably have the most pull with him out of anyone here.

#2 would save you a lot of work too... I don't see any downsides to it. #3 is about keeping the customer happy... you'd think with Graal's money problems Unixmad would want to be doing a lot more of that.

zim5354 · #62 10-12-2006, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darlene159

1) Your idea might be ok up to a point.

2 and 3 would be going directly against Unixmad, and No, I am not going to do it.

Thing is your making up rules as you go. Honestly look at the rule sheet then look at the post you deleted I bet 3/4ths of them are not written down there. As for flaming why dont you just say "Hey guys cool it or im deleting your posts." in the thread?

The Evil Within · #63 10-12-2006, 04:14 AM

You guys get so worked up over topics being closed..It's rather amusing. =]

Infernix · #64 10-12-2006, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Evil Within

You guys get so worked up over topics being closed..It's rather amusing. =]

You just started using these fourms. Moderation has been like this for god knows how long.

Darlene159 · #65 10-12-2006, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by konidias

Are you afraid of him or something?

Since when is doing the job you were hired to do being afraid of the boss?
Whether I get paid or not, Unixmad is still the boss, he owns these forums.

I talk to Unixmad with things I have a problem with. I don't have a problem with his rules.
If he has a problem with what I do, I trust he will discuss it with me.

zim5354 · #66 10-12-2006, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darlene159

Since when is doing the job you were hired to do being afraid of the boss?
Whether I get paid or not, Unixmad is still the boss, he owns these forums.

I talk to Unixmad with things I have a problem with. I don't have a problem with his rules.
If he has a problem with what I do, I trust he will discuss it with me.

Enforcing written rules is one thing making yours up is another.

Darlene159 · #67 10-12-2006, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zim5354

Enforcing written rules is one thing making yours up is another.

Sometimes moderating forums take a little common sense.

Mykel · #68 10-12-2006, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darlene159

Sometimes moderating forums take a little common sense.

What was the common sense used in closing the thread that we're talking about?

Infernix · #69 10-12-2006, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darlene159

Sometimes moderating forums take a little common sense.

I dont think anyone wants your "common sense" to interfeer with threads that have not broken any rules.

If anything Unixmad should be making your mods quote a rule every single moment you close a thread....be nice to see a day where we could barely notice mods were around like on other fourms around the net.

Luda · #70 10-12-2006, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infernix

I dont think anyone wants your "common sense" to interfeer with thread that have no broken any rules.

If anything Unixmad should be making your mods quote a rule every single moment you close a thread....be nice to see a day where we could barely notice mods were around like on other fourms around the net.

amen

zim5354 · #71 10-12-2006, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darlene159

Sometimes moderating forums take a little common sense.

Others got there before me. Anyway common sense is not a rule and thus forth isnt a reason to close a thread or delete a post no matter how stupid it may be. I just want some breathing room between the mods and the regular people.

(You should consider being a global your active and dont seem retarded like most of them anyway just a though.)

Infernix · #72 10-12-2006, 06:59 AM

Ya know.....if your gonna force the rules down the throats of the users of these fourms, its kinda no surprise that we come back at you trying to force you to do your job by the book.

James205 · #73 10-12-2006, 09:03 AM

I honestly think it's ridiculous to say players are complaining again and seeking reasons to complain...

This is a community, come on. Then you argue and say there is no rule about closing answered threads. How can you defend yourself, you did something that was out of context and behond the rules and you are trying to defend it because you don't want to admit that you might be wrong. Any mature person would no doubt resolve the situation instead of arguing with people, because there is no way you can say they are wrong, even if you bring petty claims that state there is no rule doing so.

Skyld · #74 10-12-2006, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zim5354

(You should consider being a global your active and dont seem retarded like most of them anyway just a though.)

Personal attacks are not necessary!

Demisis_P2P · #75 10-12-2006, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyld

Personal attacks are not necessary!

Way to say that you think you're retarded, otherwise his comment wasn't personal.

Skyld · #76 10-12-2006, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P

Way to say that you think you're retarded, otherwise his comment wasn't personal.

Uh, "the globals" is personal enough to the team collectively.

I also don't recall saying "I think I am retarded", do you?

Demisis_P2P · #77 10-12-2006, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyld

Uh, "the globals" is personal enough to the team collectively.

I also don't recall saying "I think I am retarded", do you?

You don't know what personal means then.

You may have taken it personally, but his comment wasn't a personal attack.
That, right there, is the perfect example of why moderation based on one person's "common sense" perception is a bad idea.

It's also a bad idea because Unixmad isn't creating a forums aimed at his customers (mostly Generation Y), he's trying to create forums that old ladies and German men can read without being taken back.

The majority of forum users are aged 15-23 from Western countries, they're not conservative old women and authoritative old men. We like satirical humour. We're rebellious by nature. Heck, we're even downright vulgar and just plain crude at times.

Unixmad should have done some organisational behaviour studies (basically diluted psychology and sociology) whenever he got his business degree, so he should know about appealing to his target demographic. It doesn't matter if he likes the forums or not, because he's not a customer, we are.

That's the most ****ing important thing here, and it's not even been considered yet.

Sam · #78 10-12-2006, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P

...

You are not forced to be a customer of this product. If you don't like the product nobody forces you to buy it. If you buy it, you have to accept its features incl. rules and staff.

_Z3phyr_ · #79 10-12-2006, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

You are not forced to be a customer of this product. If you don't like the product nobody forces you to buy it. If you buy it, you have to accept its features incl. rules and staff.

But aren't we trying to keep and make new customers, rather than turning them away while emphasizing that they have no say because they are not global officials? That is why they made the UGCC, if I'm not mistaken.

edit - with all due respect, of course

Sam · #80 10-12-2006, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Z3phyr_

But aren't we trying to keep and make new customers, rather than turning them away while emphasizing that they have no say because they are not global officials? That is why they made the UGCC, if I'm not mistaken.

edit - with all due respect, of course

Perhaps. There are lots of alternative forums people can use instead of this one.
We don't pretend to be something else. If someone is going be become a customer he can must first read the rules of conduct, also the forum rules if he want to use them.
I am afraid we arriving a spot when Unixmad is so mad that he closes all forums, or just lets one support forum open.