Anything you upload becomes property...

Fogy · #1 07-24-2006, 11:01 PM

I read in the policy that anything that gets uploaded to Graal becomes property of Graal.
While I have not had that much training in the field of legal awareness, I understand that anything you make is copyrighted to you, and in order to give it to Graal, or anyone for that matter, you would need to sign a contract that actually specifies what you are giving away.

So even if internet signatures were legally binding (which as of writing they are not), it would still not be enough to take ownership of someone's property since the policy must actually specify WHICH art pieces it takes ownership.
Otherwise anyone who needs a contract to be signed could just add in the small print that anything that person makes becomes their property, which legally is not a binding contract.

So I just wanted to enquire about this rule, can it be changed to something that is actually a real legally binding contract? Or should it be removed completely?

EDIT: Not an attempt to bash by the way, just a fault I found in the legal policy.

Loriel · #2 07-25-2006, 03:07 AM

Can you link to some law stating that your need more than an internet "signature" for copyright transfers? Sounds a bit strange considering there is a considerable amount of software licensed all over the internet, which seems pretty similar.

Apart from that, remind me whether you are the guy that challenged a bunch of global staff members to duels of honour of some sort.

Angel_Light · #3 07-25-2006, 04:02 AM

When buy account arnt yuo legally saying somewhere that your work becomes graals in the legal notice or somewhere?

Darlene159 · #4 07-25-2006, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel_Light

When buy account arnt yuo legally saying somewhere that your work becomes graals in the legal notice or somewhere?

I believe it is part of the agreement when you sign up for graal, in the ToS or something. I know I read it somewhere.

Fogy · #5 07-25-2006, 04:50 AM

Yeah it is in the TOS, but the point is, what it stands for is not legaly binding, if it was legaly binding everyone would be doing it.
Why does Graal want to claim ownership over your stuff anyway?
Legaly you have to write to them 'I agree to give my 'name of artwork' project to Graal Online' and then sign it.

And no that other guy was when I left my password sheet at an internet cafe.

Anyway it is a valid point, you can all go 'oh thats not true' or so on, but technicaly it is, you can always ask your laywer, thats what I did, since I have been wondering about it for a while so I looked it up and decided to post it here.

The only way I can see to get around it is by having the user sign a form everytime they upload something.

Matt · #6 07-25-2006, 04:56 AM

What you make on graal has to match the graphics. I think Graal doesnt want others to claim their style, something around those lines maybe?

The ToS and User Agreement act as contracts, if you agree then you make an account. Making an account acts as a signature maybe?
Many things can act as "signatures".

Angel_Light · #7 07-25-2006, 06:00 AM

well most gfxer put symbols or there name on there artwork

Shaun · #8 07-25-2006, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darlene159

I believe it is part of the agreement when you sign up for graal, in the ToS or something. I know I read it somewhere.

Agreement. Those agreements are nowhere near valid contracts, however. They fail to qualify as such and the only real purpose they serve to GraalOnline is a psuedo-shield.

The "anything you submit to GraalOnline becomes the sole property of GraalOnline" is likely the most easily void contract to spot out of the entire group. It fails the necessity of contractual consideration.

Really, I could spend an entire evening pointing out the gaping legal holes in GraalOnline's terms and agreements, but why do a lawyer's job for free?

irule13 · #9 07-25-2006, 06:58 AM

seriously anyone that reads up on law would know that teh ToS are completely void in any legal actions

Shaun · #10 07-25-2006, 07:16 AM

Your post really needs more clarification before I can accurately reply to it. How it's worded could mean two very different things, depending on the interpretation. One way I would disagree with, another way would be just agreeing with me.

irule13 · #11 07-25-2006, 07:19 AM

hmm, oh i was agreeing with you

Fogy · #12 07-25-2006, 02:04 PM

Ahh, yeah, I think Stefan or Unixmad should hire a legal aid to give them a new TOS.

hampy · #13 07-25-2006, 04:28 PM

Why does this matter? o.O

Fogy · #14 07-25-2006, 05:03 PM

Well incase there was any legal issues, for instance if someone wanted to sue Graal for claiming copyright over their material.

Malinko · #15 07-25-2006, 05:54 PM

You know, it is YOUR choice to create things for GraalOnline. You can do one of two things:

1) Upload it into the file browser.
2) Do not upload it into the file browser.

It's that simple!

Also, as mentioned, when creating an account, it's agreed upon the Rules of Conduct and User Agreement. You were supposed to read both documents before creating the used account, if not, then that's too bad, since that's what was agreed to!