Massokre's Classic Discussion (split from Warning about graalians.com)

[Tyhm]

Someone invoked my name.
*glance*
So the new team's using the wrong version of everything; "Supernicks shouldn't be there, but neither should NL, it should be Onnett town, bring back the old castle I remember" - I went over this, it was Graal1999. Two versions, one where nothing ever changed and one where everything always changed, and nobody liked either. It's not going to be the exact version you want, deal with it.

It is the humble opinion of this emeritus administrator that if you're going to renovate something, you should try to renovate it exactly so it has the minimum impact. It is also the experience of this rampant renovator that it's always more fun to take a wrecking ball to an old dead quest and remake it from scratch, not to mention less work. But what do I know? I tried to introduce Heras so we could have more than 17 "Fullheart Quests!1!!1!1", and we all saw how well that went.

I'd say for major sweeping changes hold a poll, but it won't change anything. You'll get 13 votes for Supernicks, 12 votes for NL, then someone'll call foul. Eventually you'll wind up with the world most enjoyed by the largest minority or, more to the point, bits and pieces that nobody agrees on, all stapled together haphazardly.

It's a thankless job, people will be after your neck, and you'll be lucky to see a profit when all's said and done. Enjoy it best you can, try and leave it a little better than you found it. I have neither the time to manage nor fix this poor forsaken server, whatever your various opinions of its proper name - this is not a new argument, it's been going on since the mines were initially retiled, probably a ways before that.

I like the idea of the town being peaceful, but also of the peaceful town being the quest hub. That was the point of the castle, in any eventuality, and all the scripting the King had. I was going to name him Hassenpheffer, you know, but Ragnarok insisted on Tristam. Probably for the best - Hassenpheffer's a horrid name - but Tristam's a little shady too. That would be a good NPC spot to auction off, as I did on the old trivia contests on the Level Updates page, back when we had one and people could track my progress.

Yes, I'm sure it still doesn't meet your approval for a standard issue playerworld. If it still hasn't when they release v4, then congratulations, Classic will officially have outlived its usefulness and you can dance on its grave until you start missing it. Then you'll release your version, someone else will release their version, and nothing will get done. Same as it ever was.

Don't much care for reports of how small the world is now. I suppose that'll happen when you have to start from scratch...wouldn't have had that problem if the G2K1 people let us borrow their system for a starting point. Then again, wouldn't have been a problem if the PW Control Panel had basic scripts for converting movement, baddies, etc. to serverside in the least invasive way possible, but that never happened either. So everyone makes their own homebrew movement and wastes a few hundred hours perfecting it instead of working together. Brave new world.

Oh well, do try to have fun.

[jake13jake]

Yea, Tyhm, you almost sum it up.

Yes, I'm sure it still doesn't meet your approval for a standard issue playerworld. If it still hasn't when they release v4, then congratulations, Classic will officially have outlived its usefulness and you can dance on its grave until you start missing it. Then you'll release your version, someone else will release their version, and nothing will get done. Same as it ever was.

I've put too much time and effort into this server to let that happen. Make a basic movement system, a few weapons, a few half-done quests, a few baddies, while Storm has hardly been doddling on his own overcomplicated movement system since the NPC Server. I think that Stefan should be Manager of Classic and devote a little bit of time to it.

[syltburk]

Originally Posted by jake13jake

Yea, Tyhm, you almost sum it up.

I've put too much time and effort into this server to let that happen. Make a basic movement system, a few weapons, a few half-done quests, a few baddies, while Storm has hardly been doddling on his own overcomplicated movement system since the NPC Server. I think that Stefan should be Manager of Classic and devote a little bit of time to it.

You crossed the line, I rather see Storm still being manager then having you as LAT Admin, storms managing everything. He understands what classic is about, you crossed the line.

Someone else 4 lat admin.

[jake13jake]

Originally Posted by syltburk

You crossed the line, I rather see Storm still being manager then having you as LAT Admin, storms managing everything. He understands what classic is about, you crossed the line.

Someone else 4 lat admin.

Yea, but if Stefan came into manage, I think it would be Storm 4 LAT Admin and me for Asst. LAT Admin.

You shouldn't really make assumptions on the unspoken :P.

[syltburk]

Originally Posted by jake13jake

Yea, but if Stefan came into manage, I think it would be Storm 4 LAT Admin and me for Asst. LAT Admin.

You shouldn't really make assumptions on the unspoken :P.

Mate, if stefan would be manager Storm would be manager because stefans managing a whole game, so...


Massokre - Out

Someone else - in

[James205]

Originally Posted by Tyhm

Someone invoked my name.
*glance*

I brought up your name, because it's a great example of what's going on. Let me explain...

I remember when you started adding a lot of great things to classic, in some ways it made it much better. You reshaped the whole island to make sense, you added somewhat of a storyline, added great weapons, tons of complicated things that were really good quality.

After a while I started noticing something different about classic that it started to feel like a completely different playerworld and leave it's old meaning. I also felt that you should of made your own playerworld because with your skills you could of made something amazing and people would appreciate it, but since it was classic you took in a lot of crap from people... and it wasn't really your fault.

You can make the highest quality of content on classic (example: Tyhm's amazing scripting/managing), you can update it and redo everything but it has already been proven that it doesn't work because that's not what classic is. I agree with most of DC said (except a good amount of the stuff he said about master storm) and what Tyhm said.

In reality all of us are waiting for the real version of classic to come back out, not a watered down version. Trying to improve everything and change things based off your opinion will NOT work, so start giving the players what they want again.

start listening...

[Warcaptain]

Originally Posted by Tyhm

<what Tyhm said at the top of this page>

I ran into the same problems with Enigma. (I know it's not a popular topic.. anywhere.. because people seemed to hate it.)

The original world I released was horrible.. really really horrible. When the playerworld went up half of the things didn't work and I had no idea that things were different online than offline. I struggled daily to keep things running. (This was, mind you, back when there were only like 5 playerworlds. So don't go saying things like, "Well you should have worked on other playerworlds before you made one, then you would have known.") And then I released a whole new overworld to try and start from scratch.. this made everyone mad of course. Enigma at that time had around 100 players daily and everyone liked it (for who knows what reason) Then once I was forced to change the new overworld (years later) to comply with NPC-Server.. everyone got mad again. You can never please the players of Graal. I can empathize with them, I think back to 'Graal Online' (before it became called 'classic') and I love it. Everything was so fun, and the simple things that seem so complicated now.. like guilds, staff, and level rights.. didn't matter. Everyone pitched in to help a struggling game that was really fun. But I guess thats just a side effect of getting older, you look back on the way things used to be and wish they were that way again. The fools journey is trying to make those things back the way they were.