What makes a good server?

[bef]

Originally Posted by MKxTortoise

What would you suggest in it's place? Carrying a pot across a bridge of tiles? Fighting waves of baddies? Reading an FAQ online to decipher a quest?!

Use your head.. your UN bashing thread isn't as subtle as you think it is, and even less effective.

This is not a "Unholy Nation bashing thread", you simply cannot see past the faults in your own server.

What do I suggest in its place? Actual complex and consistant quests that follow a STORYLINE.

Use your head.. being ignorant and believing that everything that you like is good, is pathetic.. If you think Unholy Nation is a wellmade server then you obviously have nothing to compare it to or you're just impressed by inconsistancies and lack of depth.

[UberModeKappa]

I propose a ressurection of Liquidice, Acidice, Wiz Kid, Devil Kitty, and my mentor, Krazy Keiko.

[MKxTortoise]

Originally Posted by Mafukie

If that is all you can think of for a quest to get hearts you are very unimaginative to what graal's scripting engine is capable of, you can have teamwork involved (since the server is so populated it wouldn't be a problem to have this in place) it was used in graal2001. You can have quests where you have to go to different NPCs and complete tasks to complete the quest.

Why would you want to do that? Slow fullheart and sword acquisition so less people can spar and PK? Uhh.. okay.

Besides.. you think UN doesn't utilize their NPC/GFX talents to their fullest? Have you seen their RP system? It's better than Valikorlia's by a long shot, and they don't even claim to specialize.

Originally Posted by bef

This is not a "Unholy Nation bashing thread", you simply cannot see past the faults in your own server.

I'm from Delteria, thanks

Originally Posted by bef

What do I suggest in its place? Actual complex and consistant quests that follow a STORYLINE.

What's the point of a storyline if it's ultimately going to be beaten? All players will ultimately persue either RPing (in which case stats will become irrelevant), PKing (needs an upgraded sword), Sparring (needs hearts and an upgraded sword), or staff positions (at which point they aren't players anymore).

If you inserted random text into quests all you would do is give some "M" keys some exercise. If you make the storyline external, it's unlikely people will bother with it, because it isn't mandatory to surviving in the area the player wants to survive. Unholy Nation succeeds partially because it has a staff that realizes these things are deterrents and unappealing to players.

Originally Posted by bef

Use your head.. being ignorant and believing that everything that you like is good, is pathetic..

Dude, look at your own thread title.

Originally Posted by bef

If you think Unholy Nation is a wellmade server then you obviously have nothing to compare it to or you're just impressed by inconsistancies and lack of depth.

If you were to go on Unholy Nation and total the value of all the accounts online at any given time it would exceed every other server except for Graal Kingdoms (which it would still sometimes beat). Yes, that's when trials are worth no money at all. Unholy Nation will still have the biggest playercount, and therefore is the server that funds the game best. To that end, it is a well made server moreso than anything else. Just because you find yourself to be intellectually elite or refined or some nonsense compared to UN's clientele doesn't somehow make your 28 dollars more valued.

It's impossible to win this arguement as it ultimately becomes a matter of personal opinion, but realize that I have statistics in my favor and you do not.

[Corp1]

UN is to Graal, like what McDonald's is to fast food.

[nullify]

Originally Posted by James205

You know what... I really like that idea.

I'll start a playerworld named "!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!~~~~~~~~~~~GRAAL" and dominate the circuit.

[Inspiration]

Tort has pretty much hit the nail on the head here.


Questing is NOT what any server lacks. In fact, questing normally distracts from the atractiveness of the server, especially when the questing is for items you need to enjoy the server in most forms.

No one wants to spend 6 hours doing quests. Why do you think classic had trouble bringing in new players over a year ago? The questing was far too complex.

If someone wanted to quest and play something by themselves, they would go play a single player game. Graal is a MMO, meaning the experience is supposed to be revolving around players interacting with eachother.

Questing is normally just hinders peoples ability to do this, as they are forced to spend time earning items before they can become a prominate member of the community.

Graal is not World of Warcraft, Lineage 2, Ragnarok Online, ect. It can not and will not be those games. No matter how good of a questing, leveling, or whatever system you have, people will still wish to default to simplicity. That's what graal is about.

[excaliber7388]

who always gets what the customer ordered wrong?

[jacob_bald6225]

My answer is "not excaliber7388".

[bef]

Originally Posted by Inspiration

If someone wanted to quest and play something by themselves, they would go play a single player game. Graal is a MMO, meaning the experience is supposed to be revolving around players interacting with eachother.

Questing is normally just hinders peoples ability to do this, as they are forced to spend time earning items before they can become a prominate member of the community.

I like what you're saying but I don't agree because understanding a storyline and the general gist of a server will help you when you do become a part of the community, and not having to work to become a prominent member of the community seems stupid and lessens the quality of the people which you associate yourself with.

[Bl0nkt]

Wow. UN is so hip.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Bl0nkt

Wow. UN is so hip.

Luckily they have all of Graal's reta- I mean smart players

[bef]

Originally Posted by Bl0nkt

Wow. UN is so hip.

Dude with quality levels like that... The server is just blessed with success!

Hah, whatever happened to detail.. Another thing that gets me is the apparent lack of competency when it comes to the English language.

Any new comments? I'd really like to hear some PW Reviewers' opinions.

*edited pathetic spelling* :P Any comments which are relevant?

[Lance]

Originally Posted by bef

Hah, whatever happened to detail.. Another thing that gets me is the apparent lack of competancy when it comes to the English language.

Any new comments? I'd really like to hear some PW Reviewers' opinions.

I'll keep this simple.

It's competency (if you refuse to use competence).

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by Bl0nkt

Wow. UN is so hip.

they don't need to be hip, dey haf smart peoplez pwayin an dey have slot machines that spitz out jolt bomz fire blast, and a kewl sword XD

dey haf great jobz too, wif fisheys that ignore lures, while da same fishey changes weight, while sending off a clone of itself to be sold...aw, gewd ting da people of un tink for us huh or we wouldn't kno where to go

XD

[MKxTortoise]

Originally Posted by bef

I like what you're saying but I don't agree because understanding a storyline and the general gist of a server will help you when you do become a part of the community, and not having to work to become a prominent member of the community seems stupid and lessens the quality of the people which you associate yourself with.

The "gist" of every server is every player trying to be the best or most popular PKer, RPer, Sparrer, or Staff Member. That is all there is. You inevitably return to simplicity; you don't need to know anyone to do it.

There is a storyline for Delteria. I seriously doubt any Delterian who posts here can tell me it. Those same Delterians will be found with RCs, 2000 rates, and 20k kills.


Why do so many people act like they understand game mechanics?

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

they don't need to be hip, dey haf smart peoplez pwayin an dey have slot machines that spitz out jolt bomz fire blast, and a kewl sword XD

dey haf great jobz too, wif fisheys that ignore lures, while da same fishey changes weight, while sending off a clone of itself to be sold...aw, gewd ting da people of un tink for us huh or we wouldn't kno where to go

XD

Ugh, I hate it when people talk like that on purpose

Personally, I like the whole go get the hearts, better swords, shield so you can PK the living daylights out of people concept...it is what drew me to Graal, it is what has kept me playing, but now I see it dying out, or becoming nothing more than who can insult the most

[bef]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

Ugh, I hate it when people talk like that on purpose

Personally, I like the whole go get the hearts, better swords, shield so you can PK the living daylights out of people concept...it is what drew me to Graal, it is what has kept me playing, but now I see it dying out, or becoming nothing more than who can insult the most

Thing is, Graal is an MMORPG and on most servers, no Role Play is evident what so ever...

Personally, I wish Graal never evolved past one server... There was more people, more focus, more fun... Now the server with the most people is just an excuse for poor Gani Makers to get their big break making useless NPCs.

[Demisis_P2P]

Originally Posted by haro41

i have no problem with you exploiting bugs, just make sure you let us know about them!

God I love that attitude.

I've probably been banned on Era just as many times as Meph has
I only have 4 accounts and each one has been banned atleast four times. And once Jenn banned IP banned 210.49.*.* (which ironically locked out half of the Australian players, as Australia really only has two main ISPs; Optus and Telstra) so I was IP banned for about 3 months.

Everytime I've been caught I've told the staff members exactly how I did what I did and how I did it, but they still banned me for a while. Often the exploit would still be unfixed by the time I was unbanned. It took Jenn many months to fix a method of duping that I told her exactly how to fix. So much for her unhackable serverside systems. That girl was too sure of herself and couldn't handle criticism.

Anyway... hi. I like your hair.

[James205]

Originally Posted by nullify

I'll start a playerworld named "!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!~~~~~~~~~~~GRAAL" and dominate the circuit.

Or there could be a random system installed so everytime a person signs on to graal the playerworld list is organized differently everytime.

It would actually be cool to take off the playercount from the server list too because naturally a newbie goes to the top playerworld/highest playercount, if its different each time then it is actually fair

Just a few ideas though :P

[bef]

Originally Posted by James205

Or there could be a random system installed so everytime a person signs on to graal the playerworld list is organized differently everytime.

It would actually be cool to take off the playercount from the server list too because naturally a newbie goes to the top playerworld/highest playercount, if its different each time then it is actually fair

Just a few ideas though :P

I think I or somebody else already suggested the random serverlist organiser... If not, good idea..

Another idea would to not display any servers, you type in what you want (much like hidden/development servers)... And on Graal's official website you could find information on each server to help you choose which would be best for you. Including what era its set in, playerworld reviews, screenshots, storyline and so on...

Another thing to do would be to make Graal's website more user friendly and give you more reasons to use it. Things like more frequent updating and a simpler interface would help achieve this...

Will think up some more ideas to do with this sort of stuff and post again later.

[GrappaRoo]

There's a big difference between a 'good' server and a 'popular' server. After I quit Bravo Evolved (and it went to crap afterwards by noob staff pointlessly editing my flawless levels with huge staff houses and adding useless NPCs, and gangs), I realized people who play Graal didn't want professionally made levels, detailed and unique quests, and even car customization. But, it turns out they'd rather press the 'D' button repeatedly in your apparently server-standard mine to chisel away at rocks so as to sell the excavated minerals until they can finally afford a hammer to forge the minerals they mine. This, in turn, allows them to make more money from mining by selling the forged minerals so they can advance to buying the neccessary equipment for making bread rolls, followed by farming. Then when they finally get enough money, they run around aimlessly and buy NPCs that in no way make the game any more fun.

Then there are servers like Unholy Nation, which to this day I still can't figure out. It's just a huge glorified chat room for tweens.

Anyways Bravo Evolved bombed, and I quit making levels. I'll stick with my occassional GFX contributions to Delteria.

P.S. - And to all those who said I 'copied' Era with Bravo Evolved. I started long before Era, but eventually slowed down in the development, since I didn't really own a server, and no one seemed interested in hosting someone else's server. When Era came out it merely remotivated me from spite to show people what a 'real' modern-day Graal server should be, so I managed to find someone to host the server. If you're a real oldbie with a good memory you'll remember me posting screens for a new server called 'Suburbana' [my server before Bravo adopted me] several years ago, way way before Era.

I actually wasn't the official owner of Evolved despite the fact that I did pretty much all of the levels, graphics, tilesets, ideas, quests, etc. and my buddy WarGod did all the scripting. And actually, the 'owner' (which will remain nameless) was the reason I quit the server when he suddenly decided to make Bravo Evolved public far too early, and then later told me he wanted to 'restart from scratch' when it bombed.

I'm just a bitter ego-driven oldbie.

[Wormx2]

What makes a good server?

Good sparring, tipped off with community.

[bef]

Good points Glub.

Another thing that makes a good server is a constant staff team, that is not forever hiring and replacing staff members. Personally I would much rather be a player than a staff member and when a servers entire playercount is the staff then it really is a put off, this is probably the worst aspect of Shaded Legend.

Why would a server with minimal players require a mass of staff whom exist solely to entertain unexistant players. What a server needs is to be finished by the time it is uploaded, then minimal development staff are required to keep updates and new things coming and player involved staff are a major focus ONLY when the playercount begins to rise.

Then again, alot of players only play servers if they can be staff members and the sad fact is that often the most excitement is truly the drama's which unfold on the RC chat.

Players don't seem to love quality yet quantity and power, they want to be a renown player without much effort... Seems sad because they are missing out on being involved in servers which keep high standards and truly are a fun gaming experience as opposed to a boring experience which is only satisfying as a result of power/being high in the player pecking order.

[Tyhm]

So what makes good community?
A steady inflow of newbies, a steady inflow of oldbies, good player retention?
My theory is and was the evolution of newbies to oldbies, though admittedly I've never been good at retention. That was the whole point of quests - newbies go OO SOMETHING TO DO!, they do it, they get stuff, then they go "Huh, bored now. I think I'll go back to ___", and lo, there are more people there. Some newbies that need help with quests, some newbies who abandoned their questing status and need to be pwned.
Trouble is, on Classic, the crux was that the oldbies were only there to pick on the newbies. Well, not all of them were only there for that, but most of them were mostly there to PK newbies. Which means less newbies want to stay, particularly when there are other server options. Which means for each oldbie that leaves, there's one less total of the playercount. Which means eventually we wind up with like 10 people total. So we can crack down on PKing (more newbies, less oldbies), or we can encourage it (less newbies, more oldbies). Or you can work around it, which other servers have done to greater effect.

[xAndrewx]

Konidas, definitely.

[DarkShadows_Legend]

because UN has everything.
like today I found something that would make some people burst into flames over in level
keikosofficegnok.graal
where the dude leaves amessage talking about his ****** just reaching 13 inches

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by DarkShadows_Legend

where the dude leaves amessage talking about his ****** just reaching 13 inches

I saw that the other day when I decided to try UN again...I wont be going back

[Lance]

Originally Posted by DarkShadows_Legend

because UN has everything.
...
keikosofficegnok.graal
where the dude leaves amessage talking about his ****** just reaching 13 inches

And it is now removed.

[bef]

Originally Posted by Tyhm

So what makes good community?
A steady inflow of newbies, a steady inflow of oldbies, good player retention?
My theory is and was the evolution of newbies to oldbies, though admittedly I've never been good at retention. That was the whole point of quests - newbies go OO SOMETHING TO DO!, they do it, they get stuff, then they go "Huh, bored now. I think I'll go back to ___", and lo, there are more people there. Some newbies that need help with quests, some newbies who abandoned their questing status and need to be pwned.
Trouble is, on Classic, the crux was that the oldbies were only there to pick on the newbies. Well, not all of them were only there for that, but most of them were mostly there to PK newbies. Which means less newbies want to stay, particularly when there are other server options. Which means for each oldbie that leaves, there's one less total of the playercount. Which means eventually we wind up with like 10 people total. So we can crack down on PKing (more newbies, less oldbies), or we can encourage it (less newbies, more oldbies). Or you can work around it, which other servers have done to greater effect.

Some really good points..
I would like to see more servers which encourage Oldbies to help Newbies or to give Oldbies less incentive to kill Newbies... Maybe a spar-like pking system where you gain less from killing somebody who is new as opposed to somebody who is old...
I suppose that would bring us back to using experience as opposed to kills deaths which would really suck because having how many kills and deaths you have staring you in the face is a really good aspect, encourages you to improve.

Going around in circles though atleast the thread is now back on topic :P

[Tyhm]

I think I had maybe 20 kills...most of them accidental...something like 1500 deaths before the reset...