Graal2001 remake... what would you...

[Brad]

Originally Posted by WanDaMan

as an olde player of Graal2001 I'd like to see what **** you come up with.

you're not an old player of 2k1

so your opinion is not welcome here

[Waltz5]

Clearly if it failed with the old content then common sense would tell you it needs new stuff. A new tileset is one of the things that Koni feels should change. I agree with him.

Tileset and the beginning stages of the character look amazing. Koni, you single handedly have revived my interest in Graal simply because of this project.

[protagonist]

I think that the new bodies killed 2k1 as well. They were frustrating. They made playing survivor a *****.

[WanDaMan]

Why not make Graal2001 again if the old stuff failed? re-make it all.

[konidias]

Originally Posted by WanDaMan

Why not make Graal2001 again if the old stuff failed? re-make it all.

Because doing everything from scratch defeats the purpose of "revision". It's no longer 2k1 if you don't use the old content in some way. The original server didn't fail, the old revision failed because it lacked anything new and things just seemed to get worse. I don't really feel like turning this into a "change wan's mind" thread. You're entitled to your opinion, I just wish you wouldn't sling out such negative comments with little to back them up.

Someone brought up a good example of what a revision basically is. If you look at Pokemon Red for the gameboy, it's a far cry from "Pokemon Fire Red" for the gameboy advance. They revised all the graphics and stuff, but the levels are mostly the same. They improved on some npc characters, I think they added the new pokemon and some new areas? (unsure) But still, it's basically the original with all new graphics and some new stuff thrown in. It's selling like hotcakes though.

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by Brad

you're not an old player of 2k1

so your opinion is not welcome here

Why does someone have to be an old player to know what will be good for the
revival?

[Amagius]

Originally Posted by konidias

If you look at Pokemon Red for the gameboy, it's a far cry from "Pokemon Fire Red" for the gameboy advance. They revised all the graphics and stuff, but the levels are mostly the same. They improved on some npc characters, I think they added the new pokemon and some new areas? (unsure) But still, it's basically the original with all new graphics and some new stuff thrown in. It's selling like hotcakes though.

Updates (As many as I can remember):

• Improved Graphics
• Addition of breeding and shiny creatures
• Nine new islands
• Access to the Gold and Silver creatures
• Same evolution formulas from Ruby and Sapphire

I know this probably wasn't necessary, but for the sake of completion.

[konidias]

As you can see from my avatar, I've started playing around with new bomy sprites, starting with the Naifets bomy. I've given them more angle and shading, as well as a smoother transition from idle to hiding. (as seen in the animation)

For a comparison of the old naifets and new, here is an animation:


I had an interesting chat about bomies today and have learned some things about them that I didn't know before. Anyway, for bomies I plan to take a more planned out approach. The bomies will remain black, there will no longer be strange colored bomies. The shells will stay consistent in size and basic shape, bomies will basically have default characteristics and more restraint on what qualifies as a bomy. The bomies I have chosen so far for the revision are:

Alma
Ambient
Barmy
Birce
Blort
Brado
Draktha
Fossilio
Golg
Herm
Kagon
Kawie
Kever
Khyle
Naifets
Nephi
Nero
Nex
Pirat
Scale
Shroomy
Viso
Waiko
Xen

So 24 in total... quite a bit of work but they will get done throughout the revision development. :P Of course, this is mainly just the outer shell. The body, shell and feet will all be seperated in the gani now. You will be able to mix and match the shell, body, and shoes on your bomy pet.

[WanDaMan]

Originally Posted by konidias

Because doing everything from scratch defeats the purpose of "revision". It's no longer 2k1 if you don't use the old content in some way. The original server didn't fail, the old revision failed because it lacked anything new and things just seemed to get worse.

Yeah, but then a completely new tileset also beats it. You won't be able to change my mind with that tileset

[MysticHaste]

Originally Posted by konidias

...

1. Yeah your probably right, just like the bomies used to be.

2. Like in the NBA games?

[syltburk]

so wait, who's the manager for 2k1 ?

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by syltburk

so wait, who's the manager for 2k1 ?

Lance manages 2K1.
Konidias manages a 'remake' version of 2K1.

[protagonist]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Lance manages 2K1.

roflmao

sigwurth33 roflz

[Brad]

trevor I was just bein a **** cause he was bein a **** earlier


koni you better not mess up my kawie or I will be angry x 19

[Googi]

There is no great justice without bomy players.

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by Brad

trevor I was just bein a **** cause he was bein a **** earlier

Ha, that is fine. I just don't think ideas should only come from people who
have been playing since the very beginning, that's all.

[Sparkplug]

Sounds awesome so far, keep up the work konidias

[xAndrewx]

Sounds good, love the bomy animation.

[MysticHaste]

So who is donating the server for this?

*Looks at Lance*

[protagonist]

Originally Posted by MysticHaste

So who is donating the server for this?

*Looks at Lance*

Koni has a server. Oasis.

[protagonist]

Lance manages 2K1.

olol

[Crono]

Originally Posted by protagonist

Lance manages 2K1.

olol

nice way to keep the quotes legal !

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by protagonist

Koni has a server. Oasis.

He is doing Oasis and 2k1 seperate.

[Scott]

Sounds interesting. I have some tiles to donate if you want them. As well... I wouldn't mind doing some pixel art for fun... so if you need help with anything else I'm up for it. Contact me if you're interested Koni.

[Amagius]

If you guys remember Shaggy, (shaggy_elven) he said that he would help support the server by paying for all the hosting costs. Very cool.

[Krakken]

My idea would be to put it up as it was when it first opened and had nothing but trees, grass and a skipping rope. From there i'd add something new each week as was done before. Like a time machine, copy the old progress exactly but throw everything that was in there before out and start a fresh.

Originally Posted by konidias

Fossilio

Yey you kept mine.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Lance manages 2K1.
Konidias manages a 'remake' version of 2K1.

That's what I don't understand about all this. If it's not a remake of 2k1 then it's not 2k1... it's a new server.

[Python523]

Don't see why Lance and Koni can't collaborate on some kind of merge... makes no sense if there are two 2k1 servers.

[AlexH]

Originally Posted by Krakken

My idea would be to put it up as it was when it first opened and had nothing but trees, grass and a skipping rope. From there i'd add something new each week as was done before. Like a time machine, copy the old progress exactly but throw everything that was in there before out and start a fresh.

Don't think the would work. When the server first goes up with little content lots of people would go explore it but find very little to do so they would leave and not come back.

[Krakken]

Yeah but Graal2001 was more about community than "doing stuff". Give the new guys a chance at the 2001 experience. Catch their attention and keep them there. Make promises and keep to them, it'll bring it back I think. Though I do see where you're coming from; it's risky.

I'd argue that if the server is pre-filled the average player will come along, feel like they have to learn how to play all at once, struggle and give up. Or if the player was more experienced they will see what they think is everything the server has to offer in a day and never return. You need to keep the players wanting more at all times and the only way to start that is to only give them a little taste.

[Brad]

Krakken, I actually like the idea. I totally think the bomy moon hitting the earth crap was dumb though. Make another quest for level 3 shield ;].

[protagonist]

Originally Posted by Python523

Don't see why Lance and Koni can't collaborate on some kind of merge... makes no sense if there are two 2k1 servers.

Because if Lance and Koni go in together, it would be a free ride for Lance and Koni would have a harder time finding workers.

[Python523]

Originally Posted by protagonist

Because if Lance and Koni go in together, it would be a free ride for Lance and Koni would have a harder time finding workers.

I don't see why it should be allowed for both of them to have a 2k1 server. Isn't it technically theft to go 'okay, here's a server, i'm going to take it's concept and revise it even though it's still online! (even if it's private).'

[konidias]

Originally Posted by Python523

I don't see why it should be allowed for both of them to have a 2k1 server. Isn't it technically theft to go 'okay, here's a server, i'm going to take it's concept and revise it even though it's still online! (even if it's private).'

It's not really stealing if I helped develop the original 2k1, helped manage the original 2k1, and I'm using the original 2k1 as my base project. I'm not using Lance's 2k1, or any of the stuff that has been developed the past year or two. It's stuff from the time I was working there.

Also, seeing as how 2k1 currently has TWO private servers that are entirely inactive, I can hardly see it being a problem. It's become apparent that Lance is never going to finish his project. I don't even have a server yet so it's not really a problem at the moment.

I would like Lance to step down from managing the current 2k1 so that there will only be one 2k1 online, but that doesn't seem like it has much chance at happening without force.

[Python523]

Originally Posted by konidias

It's not really stealing if I helped develop the original 2k1, helped manage the original 2k1, and I'm using the original 2k1 as my base project. I'm not using Lance's 2k1, or any of the stuff that has been developed the past year or two. It's stuff from the time I was working there.

Eh, point taken but one could argue that all of that content belongs on the 2k1 server regardless of what path they have taken or who owns it. If I made a world for World X, quit, and then they decide to get rid of it completely and start over I don't think I should be allowed to come back and take my world and put it up on a new gserver.

Originally Posted by konidias

Also, seeing as how 2k1 currently has TWO private servers that are entirely inactive, I can hardly see it being a problem. It's become apparent that Lance is never going to finish his project. I don't even have a server yet so it's not really a problem at the moment.

Yea, I agree that it shouldn't have two servers either.

Originally Posted by konidias

I would like Lance to step down from managing the current 2k1 so that there will only be one 2k1 online, but that doesn't seem like it has much chance at happening without force.

That would seem like the ideal solution but doesn't look like it would happen.

Why bother?
Do you really think that even a heavily revised 2k1 would be popular? Do you really think so? This was 4 years ago. Graal has changed a lot in the last four years... especially the playerbase. Of course you still have the people who really wish 2k1 was still around... even I'll admit that 2k1 was the most fun I've ever had being a player on (and being a staff on). However, do you think that the majority of graal will want to play it?

Maybe what gave 2k1 its 'charm' wouldn't be so attractive now? What made 2k1 so special... the fact that you were actually doing something that seemed productive? Will players still want to do that..? The hats? Many servers do the exact same thing with them that 2k1 did now. The bomies? Will new players want to try a completely new race? The simple economy? Will players want to work for hours and make gralats while instead they could work for hours on GK and get satisfaction through killing people with your strength? The community? Well, for one, the community is all but gone, it seems (very few of the original players seem to still be around). What will make people want to play 2k1?

Maybe 2k1 should just be laid to rest... Even if you remake it and change a lot of things to make it attractive to current players, would it still technically be 2k1 then? It's been four years, man. Four long years. Graal has changed a lot since then. Maybe graal has 'evolved', for lack of a better word, beyond what made 2k1 attractive.

[Minoc]

Originally Posted by konidias

I would like Lance to step down from managing the current 2k1 so that there will only be one 2k1 online, but that doesn't seem like it has much chance at happening without force.

Some people don't want their stuff gone, again.

[konidias]

Originally Posted by Python523

Why bother?
Do you really think that even a heavily revised 2k1 would be popular? Do you really think so? This was 4 years ago. Graal has changed a lot in the last four years... especially the playerbase. Of course you still have the people who really wish 2k1 was still around... even I'll admit that 2k1 was the most fun I've ever had being a player on (and being a staff on). However, do you think that the majority of graal will want to play it?

Maybe what gave 2k1 its 'charm' wouldn't be so attractive now? What made 2k1 so special... the fact that you were actually doing something that seemed productive? Will players still want to do that..? The hats? Many servers do the exact same thing with them that 2k1 did now. The bomies? Will new players want to try a completely new race? The simple economy? Will players want to work for hours and make gralats while instead they could work for hours on GK and get satisfaction through killing people with your strength? The community? Well, for one, the community is all but gone, it seems (very few of the original players seem to still be around). What will make people want to play 2k1?

Maybe 2k1 should just be laid to rest... Even if you remake it and change a lot of things to make it attractive to current players, would it still technically be 2k1 then? It's been four years, man. Four long years. Graal has changed a lot since then. Maybe graal has 'evolved', for lack of a better word, beyond what made 2k1 attractive.

I do believe a heavily revised 2k1 would be popular. The old players would remember some of the stuff from the past, and new players will have a whole new server to explore. I think the all new graphics alone will make people want to stick around a while and see how the server unfolds. There are very few servers with nice new graphics.

Of course I can't promise that 2k1 will be as "special" as it once was. That's impossible. But I do intend to keep everything that gave 2k1 it's appeal. Bomy pets, the fun jobs (okay they were fun at the time, they need revision), instruments and stuff to buy... etc.

I comprehend what I'm doing and understand that 2k1 by itself would not do well at this point in time. That is why I'm pushing to revise it enough so that people will feel it's a totally new server. The remaining "oldbies" of original 2k1 time will find the server to be refreshing yet familiar. That's all I want to achieve.

[protagonist]

Originally Posted by Python523

I don't see why it should be allowed for both of them to have a 2k1 server. Isn't it technically theft to go 'okay, here's a server, i'm going to take it's concept and revise it even though it's still online! (even if it's private).'

He was given Stefan's blessing, I think. It isn't "Lance's" anyway. It is CJ's.

[konidias]

Originally Posted by protagonist

He was given Stefan's blessing, I think. It isn't "Lance's" anyway. It is CJ's.

Well Stefan isn't totally decided yet. I'm hoping to get his approval though. That is what matters really. The server doesn't technically belong to any player or group of players. It belongs to Cyberjoueuers and Stefan/Unix have the last word on it.

I just figured seeing as how the current 2k1 project seems dead, and Stefan doesn't seem to mind my project, that there isn't really a problem.

[Damix2]

I say just keep the button mashing jobs, they were easy and simple.

[Googi]

Originally Posted by Damix2

I say just keep the button mashing jobs, they were easy and simple.

However, people didn't like doing them.