A Comedy of Species

[GryffonDurime]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Is that your goal with the bird people? Seems unlikely!

Again: Why does he need to be a member of some newly invented species? Does it allow anything that wouldn't otherwise have been possible? Does it make sense that he's the only one of his kind in the world? Is it even feasible that his race could've evolved from vultures? Your character is not believable, and that's a pretty fatal flaw when roleplaying.



I'm hardly off topic. If we're asking people to propose backstories then it makes sense to have some discussion on what kinds are acceptable. Still, if you wish to move it to that forum then I guess I will comply. Just make the thread and I'll switch over.

By that same logic, why be anything other than human? Does being an Elf give me any more options? Only culturally, I suppose. Does being a Daveon give me any new options? Again, it allows me to make a character from a cultural perspective. Being a Daveon allowed me to juxtapose Gryffon's internal hatred of himself with his quest for serenity with Mytriism. THAT is why I created the Daveons.

As for their origin, they are vulture-like in appearance and tendancies, but I don't think I put that they were descended from vultures in so many words. A panda may look like a bear, but they're certainly not closely related enough that you'd call it a bear.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by GryffonDurime

By that same logic, why be anything other than human?

Because the other established races have certain traits that define a character - traits that are universally recognised. You don't need to explain your character's origins and traditions and tendencies every time you introduce him.

Again and again: Believability is closely linked to parsimony! Do you intend to let everybody invent their own species? To the point where there are no two members of the same race?

As for their origin, they are vulture-like in appearance and tendancies, but I don't think I put that they were descended from vultures in so many words

Well, not since you edited your post.

[GryffonDurime]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Because the other established races have certain traits that define a character - traits that are universally recognised. You don't need to explain your character's origins and traditions and tendencies every time you introduce him.

Again and again: Believability is closely linked to parsimony! Do you intend to let everybody invent their own species? To the point where there are no two members of the same race?



Well, not since you edited your post.

I edited it because you were right. It was an oversight, thank you. I meant only to ELUDE to the relationship.

Race is just one thing a character has to explain. Skills, ability, history. All of that is unique. All of it has to be EXPLAINED in character. My history just happens to include a unique race. What of it? And you see Daveons are unbeleivable: Games are a suspension of reality. I find desert-dwelling carrion-eaters about as likely as giant amphibious fish people or immortal Vulcans of the forest.

[Kaimetsu]

You edited my post? For what purpose?

Originally Posted by GryffonDurime

Race is just one thing a character has to explain. Skills, ability, history. All of that is unique. All of it has to be EXPLAINED in character

No, not really. Most of it is inevitably revealed as time goes by, as in any good roleplaying. If your bird race has any presence in the world then most characters should already know a little about their tendencies. But they don't, because you just made them up. Either you leave them with a strange gap in their knowledge or you take time to explain. Both approaches are sub-optimal.

My history just happens to include a unique race

Ah, so it is intentionally unique? How would you feel if others started using it, too?

And you see Daveons are unbeleivable: Games are a suspension of reality

I said unbelievable, not unrealistic. There is rather a large difference.

You didn't answer my question. Would you see anything wrong with a RPing environment where everybody has invented their own race for their character?

[GryffonDurime]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

You edited my post? For what purpose?



No, not really. Most of it is inevitably revealed as time goes by, as in any good roleplaying. If your bird race has any presence in the world then most characters should already know a little about their tendencies. But they don't, because you just made them up. Either you leave them with a strange gap in their knowledge or you take time to explain. Both approaches are sub-optimal.



Ah, so it is intentionally unique? How would you feel if others started using it, too?



I said unbelievable, not unrealistic. There is rather a large difference.

You didn't answer my question. Would you see anything wrong with a RPing environment where everybody has invented their own race for their character?

In order: A misclick, I thought I clicked "quote" when it was really edit.

If someone DOSENT know what a Zormite is, the same can be said.

It was a charecteristic I USED to make him unique, yes. I don't care if there are other Daveons. Feel free, anyone.

Realism begits believability

Not particularly. It sounds like a very interesting setting. Very unique, if nothing else.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by GryffonDurime

If someone DOSENT know what a Zormite is, the same can be said

And if somebody doesn't know English then he can't interact with my character. Does that somehow justify inventing my own language and expecting people to learn it?

It's reasonable to expect that a given roleplayer will know what a Zormite is. Furthermore, if you teach them, they can go ahead and use that knowledge elsewhere.

It was a charecteristic I USED to make him unique, yes

Why did you need to make him unique? And didn't you earlier say that he's not special? Within the context, the two words seem synonymous.

Realism begits believability

Of course. But that's utterly irrelevant. Something doesn't need to be realistic in order to be believable. And my criticisms of your character are unrelated to how realistic he is.

Not particularly. It sounds like a very interesting setting

It's an unregulated setting. If you had a little more experience with RPing, you might realise how that's a bad thing.

[GryffonDurime]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

And if somebody doesn't know English then he can't interact with my character. Does that somehow justify inventing my own language and expecting people to learn it?

It's reasonable to expect that a given roleplayer will know what a Zormite is. Furthermore, if you teach them, they can go ahead and use that knowledge elsewhere.



Why did you need to make him unique? And didn't you earlier say that he's not special? Within the context, the two words seem synonymous.



Of course. But that's utterly irrelevant. Something doesn't need to be realistic in order to be believable. And my criticisms of your character are unrelated to how realistic he is.



It's an unregulated setting. If you had a little more experience with RPing, you might realise how that's a bad thing.

Because I've got such horrible experience. Such horrible, horrible experience. Tell me, Kaimetsu, when was the last time you roleplayed? When was the last time YOU interacted with the roleplaying community, specifically on Graal Kingdoms. WAIT. I forsee a comeback! "You don't have to DO something to UNDERSTAND something." I disagree. When it comes to how a community you really have no part of runs itself, your say is equivalent to that crazy old lady that lives in apartment 9B with those cats and that lintball she calls 'fluffy'.

Graal RPing isn't about stringent rules. If there's one thing I loved about 2K1, and the early days of 2k2, it's that the enviornment was freeform. The RP was regulated independantly by the kings, and so what people did (when they accepted it) became part of Graal.

Being unique dosen't make you special. It makes you different, not more or less important.

[Sildae]

Originally Posted by GryffonDurime

If someone DOSENT know what a Zormite is, the same can be said.

Zormites were created multiple years ago by collective discussion and agreement and have since become an integral part of Graal, roleplayed by dozens of players and featuring many structures throughout Graal Kingdoms and Graal2001.
If someone does not know what a zormite is, they are most likely new to Graal and will learn soon.

Your race was created because you wanted to be more special than others. It is not supported, to my knowledge, by anything but your character background. It is not featured anywhere.

Please do not get me wrong, I am all for creativity and expanding the roleplay, but imagine what roleplaying would be like if everybody had their own race that only they were a member of. I think it is a far more interesting challenge to create your character to fit within the existing framework of Graal, and then making it unique through its attitude and your style of playing.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

If roleplay is not regulated then all the clueless children will just engage in constant games of oneupmanship.

That is why you are not supposed to roleplay with clueless children.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by Sildae

That is why you are not supposed to roleplay with clueless children.

In GK, you don't have much of a choice. You can just hope that the kingdom leaders and suchlike will set a good example.

Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be happening.

[Zurkiba]

The story behind Forest is that there were new races never seen on the old lands... then the dirty humans conquered their islands, forcing those creatures into the deep abyss of the Forest.

No you cant change that fact, I dont care if you're Kai or Gryffon or whoever... why? Because I made it that way. It is how Forest was made.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

The story behind Forest is that there were new races never seen on the old lands... then the dirty humans conquered their islands, forcing those creatures into the deep abyss of the Forest

Fair enough.

Understand that I am not arguing against new races per se. I am arguing against a lack of regulation, where players are free to invent those races for themselves.

[GryffonDurime]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Fair enough.

Understand that I am not arguing against new races per se. I am arguing against a lack of regulation, where players are free to invent those races for themselves.

Daveons were created as part of a small attempt at a subkingdom on 2k1. Dustari, who pretty much controlled RPing on 2k1, agnowledged this group, if only shortly because it fell apart. My character was the only one who STAYED with that backstory.

Oh, and inspiration- People already argue about whose character is best for every other reason (skills, social class, etc), so why not race? While your daveon-killer breath may keep in the spirit of not being unbalanced, let's compare and contrast. I'm a Daveon. It means I basically have the attributes of an Elf with a desert culture. This is just mixing a CURRENT ability (virtual immortality) with cultural differences. I don't have some uber godmodding murder-breath. THAT breaks general standards of RP balance in the official servers.