Spreading the love for Valentines.

[Akoalin]

I completely agree that the old classic was better. I've told him that he killed the word classic with all the new gui and redone scripts. It works smoother with the old scripts anyway x.x

[maximus_asinus]

Originally Posted by Polo

All of the city and that I took, ADDED detailing then uploaded.

Last time I checked you deleted three levels from the original city. Where is Fox's cave? And the detail in some levels doesn't make sense. A tree blocking off the bridge a little for one thing.

Originally Posted by Polo

I dont claim to be the best tiler the world has ever seen.

Then leave it to the people you hired to do it.

Also if you are adding a quest please stay away from a 'hack and slash' quest. We had enough of those. Use the powers the NPC server gave you and make something interesting.

[Doahh_p2p]

Originally Posted by maximus_asinus

Then leave it to the people you hired to do it.

He has noone and he won't hire anyone because he says
"It's Selflons Job to Hire LAT's"
Newsflash! Selflon is NEVER on!

[maximus_asinus]

Originally Posted by Doahh_p2p

Newsflash! Selflon is NEVER on!

He was on yesterday. I applied. I fear I was banned for staff from complaining too much though.

[Doahh_p2p]

Originally Posted by maximus_asinus

He was on yesterday. I applied. I fear I was banned for staff from complaining too much though.

Wow

i applied 3 months ago or whenever it came out and have no responce

[maximus_asinus]

Originally Posted by Doahh_p2p

Wow

i applied 3 months ago or whenever it came out and have no responce

Its because they're so lazy that they won't even reply and tell you if you are hired or not. TRY LOGGING IN ON RC.

[-Ramirez-]

Originally Posted by Polo

There were reasons why it had to be rescripted.

Care to elaborate?

rather than laboriously try and emulate the classic movement as closely as I can.

Hmm, I seem to recall you saying it didn't take you very long to make the new system. That doesn't sound very "laborious" to me. I also recall you saying you changed things intentionally. That's what you do when you're trying to "emulate as closely as I can"?

[Crono]

I believe that people are forgetting what made graal successful and fun...

Old skool/fun playerhouses anyone?

Fun quests anyone?

Customized house outsides anyone?

Amagad, real women and not cross dressers?!

Well the last one is impossible to reach but the other 3 should be possible. :|

[maximus_asinus]

Classic used to be about the players. When we couldn't get the players anymore, we started to build the levels better to offset that. Now we don't have players nor quality levels.

[p2p_Sir_Link]

Hire skripters 2 deth

Honestly though, we haven't one decent scripter, with the exception of GrowlZ, who is always assigned to work on some menial script in the GC Tool. I understand we need events back, but I mean, so the lay party organizer function isn't working. Who cares? I think most events participants would rather decent quests with decent items over those laggy balloons then no one cares for.

-Kevin Azite Yo

[Evil_Trunks]

Originally Posted by p2p_Sir_Link

Hire skripters 2 deth

Honestly though, we haven't one decent scripter, with the exception of GrowlZ, who is always assigned to work on some menial script in the GC Tool. I understand we need events back, but I mean, so the lay party organizer function isn't working. Who cares? I think most events participants would rather decent quests with decent items over those laggy balloons then no one cares for.

-Kevin Azite Yo

I'm good at scripting

I make GC stuff too, that's the only thing that's availible for me to work on...

and it was a lot of fun fixing the balloon guy for NPC server

Originally Posted by Gerami

Amagad, real women and not cross dressers?!

there are real women, I just use the girl outfit sometimes because it's better

[Polo]

I am good at scripting too... and both Evil and GrowlZ have a free reign to work on anything that they would like too.

With the movment, I changed little things like I made it faster and stuff.

[syltburk]

Originally Posted by Polo

I am good at scripting too... and both Evil and GrowlZ have a free reign to work on anything that they would like too.

With the movment, I changed little things like I made it faster and stuff.

Isn't Kiirar a scripter also?

[p2p_Sir_Link]

If by scripter you mean GP?

[Crono]

Pfft, they need -fun- events like hide and seek.

[Shaun]

Actually, GrowlZ and I are working on Hide & Seek. An old idea of mine being revisited.

[p2p_Sir_Link]

May I assist?

[maximus_asinus]

For scripters they have Massokre, Storm, Evil, & Growlz.
For level designers they have Racil, & maybe Shaun.

I'd happily apply for designer but I fear that most of my talents would be waisted seeing as Storm doesn't want levels better then sub par levels.

[Polo]

Originally Posted by maximus_asinus

For scripters they have Massokre, Storm, Evil, & Growlz.
For level designers they have Racil, & maybe Shaun.

I'd happily apply for designer but I fear that most of my talents would be waisted seeing as Storm doesn't want levels better then sub par levels.

What? Obviously I want the best levels possible, but seeing as its Classic I dont want loads of new style tiling. Figure it out for yourself.

[maximus_asinus]

Originally Posted by Polo

What? Obviously I want the best levels possible, but seeing as its Classic I dont want loads of new style tiling. Figure it out for yourself.

There is detailing and then there is new styling. You seem to treat these things as if they were one in the same.

[Polo]

Originally Posted by maximus_asinus

There is detailing and then there is new styling. You seem to treat these things as if they were one in the same.

No, not at all.

[-Ramirez-]

Originally Posted by Polo

With the movment, I changed little things like I made it faster and stuff.

That doesn't explain why you did it.

That also doesn't explain your contradictory statements made on this forum compared to the ones you gave on RC.

[Polo]

I did it becausse it was needed. Old bombs and bows dont work on gmaps properly, so to get those working hit detection needed to be redone. the only way to disable the old hit detection was with disabledefmovement, and hence movement had to be redone. With the other comments, your confusing making minor tweaks/improvements with making somthing totally different with 3d terrain, friction, jumping and other fancy stuff.

[-Ramirez-]

Originally Posted by Polo

Old bombs and bows dont work on gmaps properly

Why was a gmap necessary?

so to get those working hit detection needed to be redone

You couldn't simply script bombs/bows that hit players appropriately without rescripting swords as well? That doesn't make much sense.

the only way to disable the old hit detection was with disabledefmovement, and hence movement had to be redone

Refer to previous statement.

With the other comments, your confusing making minor tweaks/improvements with making somthing totally different with 3d terrain, friction, jumping and other fancy stuff.

wtf? Where did you get that from? According to a previous post, making the movement system was "laborious" for you. Yet on RC:
Stormie: I did movement in like an afternoon or two

That sure doesn't sound like a "laborious" job to me.

Then there's the problem of you saying you're trying to emulate the default movement as "close as possible". If you were trying to do that, why are you reluctant to fix minor issues to make it more similar? Oh, that's right, because it would have to be fully redone! If that's the case, why didn't you make it identical from the beginning? I don't get it.

[Polo]

You dont get it because you dont know all the facts and try to make up stuff to fill the gaps.

1) GMaps were necessary. I asked Stefan and was told I had to use them.
2) Using the old hit detection but with new style hit detection bombs and bows is just borky and stupid, why try and integrate 2 systems when one will do the job much better. Youd have like 2 different levels of lag, it would be so wierd.
3) I did the main part of the movement in a few afternoons, but that doesn't include the carying and hiding under things and little details like that. Also doesn't include any of the hit detection stuff.
4) When doing the movement I did wall checking by iterating through increasing distances until either a wall was found or the max speed is reached. It was only in a later conversation with Stefan that I found out the original wall checking works by moving the player the max distance, then moving them back wards until they are on a wall. This causes a very minor difference between the two in certain situations, and would require rewriting most the movement to change. (I refrain from using the term correct, as I dont believe either behaviour is better). I dont believe its reasonable to expect me to know exactly how the original movement was coded first time round.
5) It is laborious in the sense of making sure that key combinations behave the same, cliff jumping moves you the exact same distance as before, etc... If I was designing a system from scratch, these details could simply be made up.

[Shaun]

I'm working on Hide & Seek, a level for Kevin, and my house, all of which are on classic, all of which will be completed in that order.

My house will likely be the last levels I do for Graal; Everworld's going astonishingly well, giving me a small bubble of opportunity to finish up these loose ends.

[jake13jake]

Hey Storm, I made a normal movement system in gc_movement.nw that works like yours except fixes the corner bug. I still haven't made it dynamic movement yet, I have to fool around a little bit with the wall check. Right now I'm focusing on the sliding off of edges, which I can get to work completely except for where you got stuck! I can't get diaganol sliding ... It's just so hard to guess what Stefan did there considering the movement gets all choppy.

And of course Evil and GrowlZ get free reign. Nobody trusts me! Especially Storm's closest admins!!!

Just to add:
I could probably do the diaganol thing manually, but I don't think that's the best way. (Manual meaning writing out all the script per case)

10:34 PM
I've definitely fixed it to have dynamic speed now! Still haven't figured out the diaganol stuff yet. Yes, it supports speeds up to 1.00 as far as I know, but most of the past hour has been spent pondering diaganols.

[-Ramirez-]

Originally Posted by Polo

You dont get it because you dont know all the facts and try to make up stuff to fill the gaps.

...where has this been done?

I asked Stefan and was told I had to use them.

He told me you two AGREED to it and that he didn't FORCE you to do anything, so I don't know where you got this from.

Using the old hit detection but with new style hit detection bombs and bows is just borky and stupid, why try and integrate 2 systems when one will do the job much better. Youd have like 2 different levels of lag, it would be so wierd.

I see, so changing the hit detection to be significantly different than everyone has been playing with for 5+ years is better? I'm sure people would much rather have been able to hit other players the way they always have and had laggy bombs/arrows, rather than laggy BOTH.

When doing the movement I did wall checking by iterating through increasing distances until either a wall was found or the max speed is reached. It was only in a later conversation with Stefan that I found out the original wall checking works by moving the player the max distance, then moving them back wards until they are on a wall. This causes a very minor difference between the two in certain situations, and would require rewriting most the movement to change. (I refrain from using the term correct, as I dont believe either behaviour is better). I dont believe its reasonable to expect me to know exactly how the original movement was coded first time round.

Why would you need to know EXACTLY how it was coded? I never once suggested that it should be CODED identically, at least that wasn't my intention. It's really not that difficult to go about coding it yourself and having the result be identical.

It is laborious in the sense of making sure that key combinations behave the same, cliff jumping moves you the exact same distance as before, etc...

I guess the laborious part is just a matter of opinion on both sides.

[Polo]

Your just being stupid now. If two chef's cook a souffle you dont expect them to be exactly identical as both chefs will do things slightly differently. Similarly, you cant expect two people to make movement exactly the same when they have done somthing slightly differently. Now please go away, your getting repetetive and boring.

[-Ramirez-]

Originally Posted by Polo

Your just being stupid now.

Thank you for the insult!

If two chef's cook a souffle you dont expect them to be exactly identical as both chefs will do things slightly differently.

Suppose they use different ingredients and have the end result still taste the same. To the person eating it, they don't care what ingredients it contains as long as it tastes the same. (Haha, unless they're allergic to something, but I don't think people are allergic to scripting commands. )

Similarly, you cant expect two people to make movement exactly the same when they have done somthing slightly differently.

I very easily can. The built-in movement is NOT that hard to duplicate. It just takes time to do it. Again, nobody ever said the code has to be the same, only the end result.

Now please go away, your getting repetetive and boring.

Hostile, aren't we?

[jake13jake]

Originally Posted by Polo

Your just being stupid now. If two chef's cook a souffle you dont expect them to be exactly identical as both chefs will do things slightly differently. Similarly, you cant expect two people to make movement exactly the same when they have done somthing slightly differently. Now please go away, your getting repetetive and boring.

Storm, normally in the case of Mathematics one encounters multiple ways to do the same thing. I acknowledge that you are a better scripter than me, but I don't understand why you never look at what I offer you. Arguing with Kat accomplishes nothing. Your movement system is good, but I fear it has it's weaknesses. The one I dislike the most is the 1.9 player width. You have explained your reasons for having the 1.9 player width and I understand now, but I have used onwall2 to make a nearly identical movement system. It might have some bugs that I haven't been able to look at yet, but right now, all that I can see is that it works like yours with less bugs save for the bug that is the lack of the diaganol-sliding feature, which I can't really fix until I know why it's not working. I've made a quest that you keep on not looking at. I don't quite understand. I really think, though, that you should look at my script because you might get some ideas from it.

[jake13jake]

LMAO.... fixing the diaganol sliding thing was a lot easier than I thought. I was trying to solve a bounce-backwards when running into players thing when I realized that I only needed to assure that the calculation to the wall was in the direction the player was walking. A simple abs(calc) * (this.dir - 2), for the x calc (or change 2 to 1 for the y). That also eliminated the diaganol sliding bug. So Storm, yea, that took me not so long, I bet it would take you less time.

[p2p_Sir_Link]

Instead of using a gmap, why not use something more friendly like a .TXT file to link levels together. It's not very difficult, if you know level placement in the area. Besides, GMAPs and scripters didn't get along at first, and scripters adjusted to it. The GMAP should have been perfected before release, and the terraingenerator is crap. =(

[Polo]

There are [more than] 2 ways of doing wall checking, and whilst the end result is 'nearly' identical for them all, in some veryi infrequently encountered situations it is not. This is whats causing the differences between the old and new movement. To our average taster, the two souffle's will taste the same. To the chef the two will taste slightly different, but both are still yummy and wholesome.

Massokre : I already told you that onwall2 did not exist when I did the movement and that I plan to redo it with the width fix included.

[maximus_asinus]

Notice the steady decline in playercount over the passed two weeks?
I fear Storm is going to get classic shutdown.

[jake13jake]

Originally Posted by Polo

Massokre : I already told you that onwall2 did not exist when I did the movement and that I plan to redo it with the width fix included.

I know, I wasn't trying to use that against you. I have one little bug I have to work out in my movement still that I just found. It is an offspring of the bug I evaded by adding a rounding script to playerx,playery. I will have to make sliding have it's own wall check which I tried to avoid.

Okay, It was just replacing variables from the regular onwall check into the slide onwall check so it's fixed now. If only my internet would stop breaking on intervals so I could actually post this edit.. I would hope that my movement supports all corner-sliding variables up to 1 now.

Nope, that didn't work yet, although it worked in one direction so if I find out why it worked for one direction I can find how i can get it to work for the other directions.

[jacob_bald6225]

Simply put, I belive the average player does not care what the bombs look like, the arrows, or the movement and you guys are all wasting your time spreading douchbagitry on the forums for some big problems that nobody but the people arguing care about, we need stuff to do on the server. If you guys get Storm to make a perfect movement system then we will have an empty playerworld with REALLY sweet movement.

Edit- Revised screenshot, massokre was innocent.

[maximus_asinus]

Why is there only one person online in the screenshot but there is four people visiable?

[jake13jake]

Oh, go figure, I fixed the sliding over walls bug, but I fixed it more than I was supposed to. Maybe I should be checking one tile and not two.....

Well, that did the same thing as if I checked for the value of normal distance traveled... which works... but... it makes going through diaganol sliding awkward

[-Ramirez-]

Originally Posted by jake13jake

Arguing with Kat accomplishes nothing.

Making random negative comments about someone you dislike doesn't accomplish very much either.

Originally Posted by Polo

To our average taster, the two souffle's will taste the same. To the chef the two will taste slightly different, but both are still yummy and wholesome.

Yes, the corner thing and other minor issues with the movement AREN'T that big of a deal. However, the hit detection IS. EVERYONE can see the difference with that, and I've seen a great deal of them complain.

Originally Posted by jacob_bald6225

Simply put, I belive the average player does not care what the bombs look like, the arrows

When was what they LOOK like ever an issue?

that nobody but the people arguing care about

Since you vouch for every single player that ever enters the server, I guess we should take your word for it.
However, as I said earlier, I agree that the movement things aren't the biggest problem here.

If you guys get Storm to make a perfect movement system then we will have an empty playerworld with REALLY sweet movement.

How do you come to that conclusion? You mean it'd take him an indefinite period of time to make the movement system and that he could never do anything else because of it?