Roleplaying Admin

[Zurkiba]

It has become apparent that Graal 2002 is in need of a roleplaying admin to keep the kings in check.

When you do not have a person higher then a roleplaying king to keep the kings in check then what you get is, well you get the roleplaying condition of 2k2. Instead of Kingdoms, 2k2 now has four guilds that can upload weapons to a server.

So please install a roleplaying admin to oversee the kingdoms of 2k2. And make sure that the person can roleplay and doesn't run around screaming "LOL IT'S A GAME".

[Nappa]

I'm pretty sure this has been tried MANY times. I know that I once signed a little "petition" for one, but I'm not sure how far that got.

[Kaimetsu]

Got any candidates in mind?

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Got any candidates in mind?

Gryffon or Chris are my only candidates personally.

Then again that would mean Chris would have to quit his leadership position.

Edit// Ooh lets get Vermain back

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

Ooh lets get Vermain back

For once we agree.

[--Chris--]

I agree.

Pre-written RP would be a good idea to help enforce this. RP admin can supervise and gets basic EM powers such as the team control (warp players) and monster (summon) control.

Date - Event - If (example in war) <Kingdom> is Victorious then <Result - New Event> else <Result - New Event> - Repeat.

[GoZelda]

How about me?!

[i]Hahaha who am I kidding[/b]
[b]Wren, Zoe etc. would never let me be because they could never give out items for no reason or win wars purely on powerplaying.[i/]

[Discharge]

All right, let us stop with the same people all the time, they get all the goodies. How about someone that has never had an opportunity and is well qualified? For example, me. All I ever do is role-play and is what I love doing as you are all aware of.

I happen to be one the greatest advocates of role-playing to the point of even getting censored by the powers that be.

[GoZelda]

Originally Posted by Discharge

All right, let us stop with the same people all the time, they get all the goodies. How about someone that has never had an opportunity and is well qualified? For example, me. All I ever do is role-play and is what I love doing as you are all aware of.

I happen to be one the greatest advocates of role-playing to the point of even getting censored by the powers that be.

Yeah, you'd be a good RA.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by discharge

All right, let us stop with the same people all the time, they get all the goodies

This isn't a matter of sharing "goodies" between the players. If a certain person is more qualified then they should get staff positions more often. The fact that you think of these jobs as prizes rather than responsibilities doesn't inspire confidence.

Originally Posted by Discharge

How about someone that has never had an opportunity and is well qualified? For example, me

Merely stating that you are qualified doesn't count for much.

[GoZelda]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

This isn't a matter of sharing "goodies" between the players. If a certain person is more qualified then they should get staff positions more often. The fact that you think of these jobs as prizes rather than responsibilities doesn't inspire confidence.

Kai, please. You know very well that most of the goodies are spread amongst the 'powerplayers' and staff who very often or horrible at their tasks.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by GoZelda

You know very well that most of the goodies are spread amongst the 'powerplayers' and staff who very often or horrible at their tasks.

Again, not goodies. And yes, staff positions are often poorly assigned, but that doesn't validate Discharge's logic. A person shouldn't be passed over just because they've had staff positions in the past, or given preferential treatment if they haven't.

[GoZelda]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Again, not goodies.

Okay, fine. Not goodies.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

And yes, staff positions are often poorly assigned, but that doesn't validate Discharge's logic. A person shouldn't be passed over just because they've had staff positions in the past, or given preferential treatment if they haven't.

Still, the new staff positions often are assigned to ex-staff, current staff and buddies of staff or terrible kingdom leaders even though they have proved themselves incompetent several times before.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by GoZelda

Still, the new staff positions often are assigned to ex-staff or people who still are staff even though they have proved themselves incompetent several times before.

Irrelevant. If they are incompetent then they shouldn't be staff, regardless of their employment histories. It is not a factor here.

[GoZelda]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Irrelevant. If they are incompetent then they shouldn't be staff, regardless of their employment histories. It is not a factor here.

Actually it is (in my opinion). There are several people who would be much more fit for a staff position but they are shoved aside and what you could call veterans are chosen instead of them. Sure, if they are incompetent they shouldn't be staff - but they are.

[Discharge]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Again, not goodies. And yes, staff positions are often poorly assigned, but that doesn't validate Discharge's logic. A person shouldn't be passed over just because they've had staff positions in the past, or given preferential treatment if they haven't.

What Spock, you want to pick a fight with me using your logic?

Yea it shouldn’t but it happens. Since I started role-playing it seemed apparent that there was a circle of certain people that usually were selected as staff personnel.

Yea, I know simply stating I’m qualified doesn’t mean I’m qualified to be in that position. You have to show evidence as to why you are qualified. My evidence is the role-playing community who I have been role-playing for awhile now. I’ve been role-playing for good long time and people have seen that I really am devoted in what I do. I am a person who really likes to role-play and this is a perfect opportunity for me to finally get everyone to start role-playing. I really don’t know why you just got to come in here and bust my chops.

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by Discharge

What Spock, you want to pick a fight with me using your logic?

Yea it shouldn’t but it happens. Since I started role-playing it seemed apparent that there was a circle of certain people that usually were selected as staff personnel.

Yea, I know simply stating I’m qualified doesn’t mean I’m qualified to be in that position. However, I’ve been role-playing for awhile now and people have seen that I really am devoted in what I do. I am a person who really likes to role-play and this is a perfect opportunity for me to finally get everyone to start role-playing. I really don’t know why you just got to come in here and bust my chops.

Yeah sorry, I just got those two off the top of my head. I havn't been in contact with you atall but you obviously do know how to roleplay and should be added to my candidate list there.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by GoZelda

There are several people who would be much more fit for a staff position but they are shoved aside and what you could call veterans are chosen instead of them

So what exactly is your solution? We ape the Americans and rule that nobody is allowed to serve in more than x staff positions?

Originally Posted by Discharge

What Spock, you want to pick a fight with me using your logic?

That is about the worst sass ever. It is like saying "Hey intelligent guy, you want to help me look stupid?"

Since I started role-playing it seemed apparent that there was a circle of certain people that usually were selected as staff personnel

Refer to my previous arguments. If they are being hired despite lack of competence then there is something very wrong with the system - something far more worthy of consideration than your share-the-goodies complaints.

My evidence is the role-playing community who I have been role-playing for awhile now

So, within this context, you have no evidence.

I really don’t know why you just got to come in here and bust my chops

Because you're making fallacious arguments. Duh.

[GoZelda]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

So what exactly is your solution? We ape the Americans and rule that nobody is allowed to serve in more than x staff positions?

No, we should evaluate everybody's level of skill and appropiaty and pick our staff based on those factors, not on how good/long we've known them.

[Lance]

Originally Posted by GoZelda

No, we should evaluate everybody's level of skill and appropiaty and pick our staff based on those factors, not on how good/long we've known them.

Hey, attitude and trustworthiness are factors, too.

[GoZelda]

Originally Posted by Lance

Hey, attitude and trustworthiness are factors, too.

True.

[Discharge]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

So what exactly is your solution? We ape the Americans and rule that nobody is allowed to serve in more than x staff positions?

Give someone else who does not have a history of being a staff member and is qualified a chance. Simple as that.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

That is about the worst sass ever. It is like saying "Hey intelligent guy, you want to help me look stupid?"

That’s your opinion if you think it’s the worst. I’m just sick and tired of you trying to cause problems because you enjoy arguing with people by using your “logic.”

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Refer to my previous arguments. If they are being hired despite lack of competence then there is something very wrong with the system - something far more worthy of consideration than your share-the-goodies complaints.

Yea we already know there’s something wrong. That’s why I’m complaining and so is Gozelda that we would like someone out of this circle of people.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

So, within this context, you have no evidence.

My evidence is my good reputation as good role-player as you can obviously see by the posts of people recommending me as a role-playing admin. (Thank you for recommending me I appreciate it) You’re/were a scripter whatever guy staff person because you were good at it. It’s only “logical” to give the position of role-playing admin to someone who is good at role-playing.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Because you're making fallacious arguments. Duh.

No because you like to argue a lot and never shut the hell up. Simple as that.

Edit: This is just going to go on and on. Do us all a favor and stop arguing with me. Think of some people who could be good role-playing administrators because your just wasting my time.

[fireedragn]

Originally Posted by Lance

Hey, attitude and trustworthiness are factors, too.

Which is exactly why friends/former staff members/etc get the job. "Attitute and trustworthiness" is sometimes the only requirement it seems.

You're just going around in circles. I think we can all just admit that fairly new people are screwed, and unless they have friends in high places they are going to stay that way.

[Lance]

Originally Posted by fireedragn

You're just going around in circles.

I am? That's strange, I thought I only made one post in this thread.

I think we can all just admit that fairly new people are screwed, and unless they have friends in high places they are going to stay that way.

I think that we can all admit that if someone proves themself as being skilled, trustworthy, and with a proper attitude, they will go places. I would consider myself a fair example of such a person.

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by Lance

I am? That's strange, I thought I only made one post in this thread.



I think that we can all admit that if someone proves themself as being skilled, trustworthy, and with a proper attitude, they will go places. I would consider myself a fair example of such a person.

Indeed, you show a trait of loyality that is unmatched, your sparring skills are also superb

[fireedragn]

Originally Posted by Lance

I am? That's strange, I thought I only made one post in this thread.

That was a new paragraph. You know, it signals the beginning of a completely new thought.

Originally Posted by Lance

I think that we can all admit that if someone proves themself as being skilled, trustworthy, and with a proper attitude, they will go places. I would consider myself a fair example of such a person.

I agree. Unfortunately though, it's a popularity contest. Unless that someone has been playing for a while, their skills are likely to go unnoticed.

Anyway, I admire the fact that you all want RP to be a bigger part of this game, and I wish you the best of luck.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by GoZelda

No, we should evaluate everybody's level of skill and appropiaty and pick our staff based on those factors

Right. So the number of staff positions held in the past actually isn't a factor.

Originally Posted by Discharge

Give someone else who does not have a history of being a staff member and is qualified a chance

Why do you make inexperience a factor? If we are able to judge a person's qualifications then we should simply give the job to whoever scores highest.

I'm just sick and tired of you trying to cause problems because you enjoy arguing with people by using your "logic"

"Cause problems"? I am discussing this topic just as anybody else here. The only major difference between your conduct and mine is that you're throwing insults without provocation, while I'm merely arguing the pertinent on-topic points.

Yea we already know there’s something wrong. That’s why I’m complaining

Read the rest of the text, dude. It's all about priorities. If you want to show that there's something wrong with the current system then you have to demonstrate some failing in the evaluation of potential staff members. If you achieve that then the major problem is already solved, and the whole number-of-staff-positions thing boils down to petty jealousy.

My evidence is my good reputation as good role-player as you can obviously see by the posts of people recommending me as a role-playing admin

Only two people so far have agreed with your self-recommendation. If we're really gonna treat this thing as a popularity contest then those votes might count for something, but not until you poll for opinions on the other candidates.

It's only "logical" to give the position of role-playing admin to someone who is good at role-playing

In an indirect fashion, yes. But such a claim doesn't help your case until you show that the someone is you.

No because you like to argue a lot and never shut the hell up

Then why did I choose your post instead of somebody else's?

Edit: This is just going to go on and on. Do us all a favor and stop arguing with me

Hahaha. It's always fun to see hypocritical peacemongers in action. If you wanted the argument to stop, why did you make a post perpetuating it?

[Lance]

Originally Posted by fireedragn

That was a new paragraph. You know, it signals the beginning of a completely new thought.

How am I to know just by your paragraph structure that you are not still speaking to me...? Some other quote or separator should be used.

[FenixTheBanished]

Face it, most people on Debug get it because of other people, eg, Ana, Nayoko. Nayoko because of Bjorn, Ana, well, I'll leave that to the smart people. z.z

Jobs are usually handed to people staff know, trust, etc. Not always are they incompetent, and I don't think you can show an example of an incompetent staff that was vouched for by x staff.

I think James got up there himself though.. o-o


~

Anyways, an RP admin would be ignored.. What'r you going to do? Force people to RP? Doubtful. All you could do is rally the RP'ers, and show the non-s that RPing is good, and not just 'zomg peoples r getting itams 4 rping?!!", that's the only problem I see.

[xAndrewx]

Yea, I agree with Fenix, What would he do? Order people to RP? I would rather let the kingdom leaders start wars than have a RP admin do it.

[Zurkiba]

You fail to understand what a RP Admin does.

He keeps the kings in check. If a kingdom leader is bad, then that leader is removed. If a kingdom leader can roleplay. Then that leader is removed.

Well not just removed, the RP Admin would work with the kingdom leader to fix the problems.

If there is no check over the kings, then they turn into guilds that dont roleplay.

[GryffonDurime]

Exactly- for proof of what a great RP Admin does, look at Vermain's history on 2k1! A good RP Admin not only creates a necessary power able to check the Kings and Queens, it also introduces someone able to keep interkingdom conflict and politics flowing: IE, Samurai basically said they refused to RP with Zormite and Dustari when they revolted the day Reiko was in charge. A Kingdoms admin can't FORCE them to RP, but he can make the consequences dire if they don't. Destruction of kingdom property, etc

[Discharge]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Why do you make inexperience a factor? If we are able to judge a person's qualifications then we should simply give the job to whoever scores highest.

Well here is the thing, we have been giving the same people staff positions and Graal Kingdoms is not looking to good as far as role-playing goes. We have these GK staff folks making bogus items such as the “Mail of Might.” If we allow someone out of this circle of people then there is a good chance for somebody to improve the role-playing atmosphere. Chris is a staff member already but they still want to nominate him for another staff position. Let him focus on forest, while another person who doesn’t have any other staff obligations to focus on the role-playing. There can possibly be a real good administrator out there that we won’t find out unless we allow some other folks who have never had the opportunity.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

"Cause problems"? I am discussing this topic just as anybody else here. The only major difference between your conduct and mine is that you're throwing insults without provocation, while I'm merely arguing the pertinent on-topic points.

Your not, you are mostly arguing with me about my reasons for becoming a Role-playing Administrator rather then listing other prospective RP Administrators and listing the reasons why they would be a good role-playing administrator. I really don’t know why you are so concerned when you don’t role-playing in Kingdoms. (I don’t care about your reasons for not role-playing)

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Only two people so far have agreed with your self-recommendation. If we're really gonna treat this thing as a popularity contest then those votes might count for something, but not until you poll for opinions on the other candidates.
In an indirect fashion, yes. But such a claim doesn't help your case until you show that the someone is you.

It’s not about popularity contest; I was using those two to show my evidence as a good role-player. Of course you wouldn’t know that I’m a good role-player because you’re not currently in the role-playing community. If you ever did role-play then it must have been something you did every once in awhile. My evidence is not sufficient for you because you don’t role-play in Graal Kingdoms and I really don’t remember seeing you role-play in Graal2001. I don’t need to provide any more extensive evidence for my qualification besides my reputation in the role-playing community. You see, those who are involved in role-playing know me. As a result, my reputation is sufficient enough to provide evidence of a qualified person to be a role-playing administrator.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Then why did I choose your post instead of somebody else's?

I’m not you; I don’t know why you picked me or picked any other person from other threads to argue with.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Hahaha. It's always fun to see hypocritical peacemongers in action. If you wanted the argument to stop, why did you make a post perpetuating it?

Ha-ha, real funny, I’m laughing my ass off too.

It’s just my natural reaction in response to someone who wishes to contend with me. However, I don’t enjoy prolonging an argument because they are very time consuming. I know for you it’s something of a mental sport which you take part in pleasure. However, since you want to drag it on so be it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Where is Vermin?

[GoZelda]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

If a kingdom leader can roleplay. Then that leader is removed.

Eh?

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by Discharge

we have been giving the same people staff positions and Graal Kingdoms is not looking to good as far as role-playing goes
If we allow someone out of this circle of people then there is a good chance for somebody to improve the role-playing atmosphere

Why, because the majority of people make good roleplaying admin candidates? You're assuming that we have some means for evaluating a person's competence and reliability, and if do then we can already eliminate the bad apples. If we don't, how do we know that the new person won't be a hundred times worse?

There can possibly be a real good administrator out there that we won’t find out unless we allow some other folks who have never had the opportunity

So now you're saying it's impossible to know how good somebody will be until they've been given the "goodies"?

Your not, you are mostly arguing with me about my reasons for becoming a Role-playing Administrator

Of the eight paragraphs in my previous post:

3 discussed the general principles of staff selection without any reference to you
2 challenged your claims of suitability
3 addressed the attacks you made on my character

Two out of eight doesn't seem to qualify as "mostly".

In any case, if your self-nomination was on-topic then so are my comments thereon.

I really don’t know why you are so concerned when you don’t role-playing in Kingdoms

I may not play Kingdoms, but I do want to see Graal prosper. Weak administrators don't much help that goal.

It's not about popularity contest; I was using those two to show my evidence as a good role-player

So the only reason somebody could vote for you is that you're a good roleplayer? And if somebody else got more votes, it would be logical to assume that they're better?

Of course you wouldn't know that I’m a good role-player because you’re not currently in the role-playing community

My personal experience is pretty much irrelevant here. I merely asked if you could present any substantial evidence for your claim, and it seems that you cannot.

I'm not you; I don’t know why you picked me or picked any other person from other threads to argue with

And yet you seem perfectly comfortable in telling me my reasons for posting here. One moment you can read my mind, the next you can't?

It’s just my natural reaction in response to someone who wishes to contend with me

Congratulations on your lack of self-control. It must be a fantastic trait for an administrator to possess.

[Discharge]

My list for possible role-playing administrators would be:

Gryffon
Zurkiba

Reasons, well I’ve role-played with them and they can role-play. In addition, to my knowledge they don’t have any other staff obligations allowing them to focus completely on Role-playing administrating. Maybe more will come to my mind.

ADD:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Why, because the majority of people make good roleplaying admin candidates? You're assuming that we have some means for evaluating a person's competence and reliability, and if do then we can already eliminate the bad apples. If we don't, how do we know that the new person won't be a hundred times worse?

There’s a pool of people who can be potential excellent role-playing administrators. I’m just saying lets give the opportunity to someone who has not held a staff position. It’s possible that a fresh new person may not be a good role-playing administrator. Simply you just remove him and replace him.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

I may not play Kingdoms, but I do want to see Graal prosper. Weak administrators don't much help that goal.

When did you become so benevolent?
So all of sudden you are concerned with role-playing?

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

So the only reason somebody could vote for you is that you're a good roleplayer? And if somebody else got more votes, it would be logical to assume that they're better?

My personal experience is pretty much irrelevant here. I merely asked if you could present any substantial evidence for your claim, and it seems that you cannot.

You see, in your opinion it’s not substantial evidence because you don’t role-play and therefore don’t know my reputation. Any additional evidence is not necessary. Your experience is relevant because your ignorance does not allow my evidence to be sufficient for you only.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

And yet you seem perfectly comfortable in telling me my reasons for posting here. One moment you can read my mind, the next you can't?

It’s known that you enjoy arguing. What no one can predict is who you pick to argue with.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Congratulations on your lack of self-control. It must be a fantastic trait for an administrator to possess.

Yea, I’m real out of control huh?

[GryffonDurime]

[QUOTE=Discharge][FONT=Palatino Linotype]My list for possible role-playing administrators would be:

Gryffon
Zurkiba

Reasons, well I’ve role-played with them and they can role-play. In addition, to my knowledge they don’t have any other staff obligations allowing them to focus completely on Role-playing administrating. Maybe more will come to my mind.
[/QUOTE=Discharge][/FONT=Palatino Linotype]

Actually, I'm Kingdom Administrator+ of Graal2001, and RP Admin and Project Manager of...

Something Else

As for Candidates, my list is:

Zurkiba
Discharge
Grirahan
John
Vlad
Tupper

Those are people who I've seen RP for a fact, who can catalyze change, and who know what they're doing.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by Discharge

There’s a pool of people who can be potential excellent role-playing administrators. I’m just saying lets give the opportunity to someone who has not held a staff position

I know what you're saying, but I'm still waiting for you to explain why inexperience should be considered a positive factor.

So all of sudden you are concerned with role-playing?

I understand that English is not your first language, but it doesn't grant you license to misinterpret so spectacularly. I'm concerned with Graal, and Graal's success is tied with the quality of roleplaying on its servers. There is nothing "sudden" about this.

You see, in your opinion it’s not substantial evidence

No, it's not substantial evidence because it's not substantial evidence. You can allude to some fantastic talent and reputation but, whether or not it exists, you haven't demonstrated it here. You may claim that you have demonstrated it elsewhere, but that doesn't count for much.

It’s known that you enjoy arguing

With people like you? Not really. Even if I did, it would be but a single factor. It wouldn't support the claim that I'm only here for an argument.

And do you expect people to take your reasoning seriously when you are the one to have driven the thread off-topic with accusations and ad hominems?

Yea, I’m real out of control huh?

Repeating somebody's claim with a "huh?" on the end is not a particularly strong argumentative tactic.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Lance

Hey, attitude and trustworthiness are factors, too.

yeah thats about the time i start getting ruled out for things

[zell12]

Haha brad. :P

Oh, and Discharge > all !me