Pirates at the big 5 meeting.

[xAndrewx]

Originally Posted by StrykerTFFD

Honestly, Events are what screwed up Kingdoms, more importantly the items as rewards.
Before those, RPing was the thing to do. It was fun. Then once the overpowered items showed up...it was screwed.

This is clearly the case as there were attempts to tone down the items. Everyone remember the period of time where you won Trophies? I have so many trophies from back when I was EM(I was allowed to keep them as they really do NOTHING).

But those attempts failed as people were given a taste of 'l33tness' and they wanted more. So back to the overpowered items we go. Now we're in a period of event coins and trying to find the next Exp Bug. Yay.

Well, this is GK. We can't change it, you can try. But you'll fail...like the rest!
*plays a theme tune*

[Butz]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

Well, this is GK. We can't change it, you can try. But you'll fail...like the rest!
*plays a theme tune*

You're quite the pessimist for someone whose job it is to help promote RP on Graal Kingdoms.

[Zxion]

Originally Posted by StrykerTFFD

Honestly, Events are what screwed up Kingdoms, more importantly the items as rewards.
Before those, RPing was the thing to do. It was fun. Then once the overpowered items showed up...it was screwed.

This is clearly the case as there were attempts to tone down the items. Everyone remember the period of time where you won Trophies? I have so many trophies from back when I was EM(I was allowed to keep them as they really do NOTHING).

But those attempts failed as people were given a taste of 'l33tness' and they wanted more. So back to the overpowered items we go. Now we're in a period of event coins and trying to find the next Exp Bug. Yay.

I 100% agree with you, ever since the "leet" event items came out, RPing went out the window. It's never been the same since and that's a very sad thing. The only way to fully have RPing as something capable on this server is to reset it and not give out super-powered items for events, fix the bugs that let you to get insane amounts of exp and make events involve more fun that doesn't involve "leetness" (i.e. like the events on event island, they can be won by anybody).

[Butz]

Originally Posted by Zxion

I 100% agree with you, ever since the "leet" event items came out, RPing went out the window. It's never been the same since and that's a very sad thing. The only way to fully have RPing as something capable on this server is to reset it and not give out super-powered items for events, fix the bugs that let you to get insane amounts of exp and make events involve more fun that doesn't involve "leetness" (i.e. like the events on event island, they can be won by anybody).

Alternative to a reset, you could always limit EAing to +3 or +4. That way, people wouldn't have ungodly AC, but could have enough to protect from monsters.

[Raziel]

Originally Posted by Butz

Alternative to a reset, you could always limit EAing to +3 or +4. That way, people wouldn't have ungodly AC, but could have enough to protect from monsters.

Or players could level up their physique more so they would have enough wc to break the "ungodly" ac. Then the "ungodly" ac wouldn't be so "ungodly" anymore.

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by StrykerTFFD

If only pulling up old old old omg that's old posts were possible.

http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...ad.php?t=35130


As for Andy's comment:

Originally Posted by www.graalonline.com

Welcome to Graal
Graal Kingdoms is an adventurous massively multi player online roleplaying experience. Explore 3-D terrain in a 2-D environment, while battling monsters, forging friendships, and collecting treasures.
Interact with in-game characters and creatures, role play and chat with other players from around the world. Graal Kingdoms allows players to become a part of the story. Players can build houses, protect kingdoms, battle in tournaments, compete in events, and much more!

-------

Originally Posted by Zxion

I 100% agree with you, ever since the "leet" event items came out, RPing went out the window. It's never been the same since and that's a very sad thing. The only way to fully have RPing as something capable on this server is to reset it and not give out super-powered items for events, fix the bugs that let you to get insane amounts of exp and make events involve more fun that doesn't involve "leetness" (i.e. like the events on event island, they can be won by anybody).

No, the only way to make everyone happy is if Graal Kingdoms installs a K-mode again:
http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...ad.php?t=59647

[StrykerTFFD]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...ad.php?t=35130

You really deserve a cookie.

[Googi]

Hybriding RP and PK a bit is okay, and even good. Valikorlia, where there was no actual fighting in RPing, sucked. The only problem is that everyone needs to be on an equal level during the fighting, like it was on 2K1. That's why there should be a kingdom mode.

[Cheops]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

Who actually said G2k2 was for roleplayers?

Originally Posted by StrykerTFFD

Before the server went up, Stefan said it plenty of times.

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

I'd like to see some evidence for this if possible. I don't think GK was mainly for the RPers..

Originally Posted by StrykerTFFD

If only pulling up old old old omg that's old posts were possible.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

http://forums.graalonline.com/forum...ead.php?t=35130

Originally Posted by StrykerTFFD

You really deserve a cookie.

Ironically, the link provided directs you to a post by *unixmad NOT on how GK is for the RPers, rather the topic is game mechanics.

[StrykerTFFD]

Either you didn't read the second quote in Zurk's post...or are blind. It addresses the RP sense GK is suppose to have. So the first link provided, although about game mechanics, lists a great deal of things that are suppose to better the RP feel. They are also things that were promised and not delivered!

Have a...nah you don't deserve a cookie.

[Cheops]

I'm ignoring your insults, but I'll take you up on the dissection of the second quote, here goes:

Originally Posted by www.graalonline.com

Welcome to Graal
Graal Kingdoms is an adventurous massively multi player online roleplaying experience. Explore 3-D terrain in a 2-D environment, while battling monsters, forging friendships, and collecting treasures.
Interact with in-game characters and creatures, role play and chat with other players from around the world. Graal Kingdoms allows players to become a part of the story. Players can build houses, protect kingdoms, battle in tournaments, compete in events, and much more!

"...battling monsters..." monsters give you exp
"...collecting treasures..." plat, diamonds, items, just guessing here
"...role play and chat..." let me draw your attention to the word *chat* right after role play
"...protect kingdoms, battle in tournaments, compete in events..." hmmm tournaments, fun! I'd best go lvl so I have a chance of winning! Events, yippee! Hope the prize is a nice item
"...and much more..." [self explanatory]

I don't see "this server is for the RPers" in the quote.

[Googi]

Originally Posted by Cheops

I don't see "this server is for the RPers" in the quote.

The idea that 2K2 is meant primarily for RP originates from the promotional temporary release around December of 2001, where you could only travel around to the kingdoms. Also, a long time ago there was a kingdom mode used for RP. If you go back and look at old posts on 2K2 from 2001/2002, especially before the Beta release, you can see that it was generally assumed to be an RPing server. It is, however, true that I don't think any staff member said so explicitly.

[Raziel]

I agree with GK being for RP, but that does not mean that we should all be equal in strength. Obviously, this is not the case irl now and it has never been. We don't want GK to be Valikorlia, and we don't want to be Communist, har har, so why shouldn't certain people be stronger if they work harder for it instead of sitting on their asses and begging for everyone else to be brought down to their level?

[Zxion]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

No, the only way to make everyone happy is if Graal Kingdoms installs a K-mode again:
http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...ad.php?t=59647

Oh yea, sorry, I forgot about that. (Don't know why I did when I posted, probably lack of sleep.) I also agree that the K-mode should be installed again, that would greatly help with RPing.

[Discharge]

Originally Posted by MadScience7

I think he's just mad because Kilik owned him. But there's no doubt the Pirates can use some improvement in RP, that's a valid point. We are trying, with a training program for new members. So I hope you see some improvement next time we cross paths.

Governor Alan Steele - Crescent Pirates

You've been trying for an awful long time. Role-playing is very simple; they don’t need training, they need to follow the rules of role-playing.

Note: Response may be delayed because of account status.

[xAndrewx]

Originally Posted by Cheops

I'm ignoring your insults, but I'll take you up on the dissection of the second quote, here goes:
"...battling monsters..." monsters give you exp
"...collecting treasures..." plat, diamonds, items, just guessing here
"...role play and chat..." let me draw your attention to the word *chat* right after role play
"...protect kingdoms, battle in tournaments, compete in events..." hmmm tournaments, fun! I'd best go lvl so I have a chance of winning! Events, yippee! Hope the prize is a nice item
"...and much more..." [self explanatory]
I don't see "this server is for the RPers" in the quote.

Cheops beat me too it.
G2k1 is coming back, don't try to ruin a server for your own benefits.

[xAndrewx]

Originally Posted by Butz

You're quite the pessimist for someone whose job it is to help promote RP on Graal Kingdoms.

I promote RP on Graal Kingdoms, I speak for the players, if they don't want this, should they still get it?
Think of the playercount, not yourself.

[StrykerTFFD]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

I promote RP on Graal Kingdoms, I speak for the players, if they don't want this, should they still get it?
Think of the playercount, not yourself.

In the early stages of Kingdoms, we RPed. I can remember the fun I had in Zormite under Zen.

But now, RP is dead. You're on the RP Team, you should be defending it, not hurting it. If you're going to hurt RP, leave the RP Team and let somebody take your place who will defend what the server used to be about, and not the item/power hungry struggle it is today.

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

G2k1 is coming back, don't try to ruin a server for your own benefits.

Kingdoms IS ruined. Like I said, when it first started, it was all about the RP. Now, it's all about items/power/exp bugs. Which is better? The way it started, so technically the way it is now, is the ruined state.

[xAndrewx]

Originally Posted by StrykerTFFD

But now, RP is dead. You're on the RP Team, you should be defending it, not hurting it. If you're going to hurt RP, leave the RP Team and let somebody take your place who will defend what the server used to be about, and not the item/power hungry struggle it is today.

Kingdoms IS ruined. Like I said, when it first started, it was all about the RP. Now, it's all about items/power/exp bugs. Which is better? The way it started, so technically the way it is now, is the ruined state.

Just because I'm in the RP Team doesn't mean I need to defend RP. I speak the truth, RP isn't what is used to be. Items and levels rule this game.
Why do you level? <--to be better then the rest.
It's not a game flaw, I bet you guys loved the new level system. Since you're not one of the top players anymore, you decide to bash it.

[lordbosh]

Kingdoms turned this way because players cried about things so much that they were changed. If you take a graal that was never modified from its original system you would have a much better game.

Examples. Look at Vitrol, it was made to screw your armor enchantments up. Cancellation was made to cancel your enchantments, ever tried dispel magic in d&d on an area? EA's and IWD's also ruined things, people kill things too easily. Lords should be so hard to kill that you need a team to do it. No one should be able to do brutals period.

The entire system is screwed. And it has been becuase of player complaints or bad ideas that were implemented. Now we get to enjoy the fruits of our labor, enjoy.

[Draenin]

If you do this,

Originally Posted by lordbosh

If you take a graal that was never modified from its original system you would have a much better game.

This is the result.

Originally Posted by graalonline.com

Role play and chat with other players from around the world. Graal Kingdoms allows players to become a part of the story.

If this wasn't way things would've been done on GK,

Originally Posted by lordbosh

The entire system is screwed. And it has been becuase of player complaints or bad ideas that were implemented.

This would be what we'd be doing.

Originally Posted by graalonline.com

Time is running out... The alien bomies are also building up their civilization. The crashing of the moon has awakened evil deep within the world. It won't be long before the evil spreads to take your land for its own. You must help reclaim the island that was once called home.

I can't agree with you more, Bosh.

[Discharge]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

I promote RP on Graal Kingdoms, I speak for the players, if they don't want this, should they still get it?
Think of the playercount, not yourself.

During the early developing stages of Graal Kingdoms where role-playing was at its highest, the player count was far higher. Most role-playing enthusiasts left Graal Kingdoms like Aftershock. As a result, the non-role-playing enthusiasts are dominant in the game currently. If you want good player count like +100, then making role-playing a primary objective would be beneficial and correcting the game enviroment/mechanics.

[GryffonDurime]

Originally Posted by Discharge

During the early developing stages of Graal Kingdoms where role-playing was at its highest, the player count was far higher. Most role-playing enthusiasts left Graal Kingdoms like Aftershock. As a result, the non-role-playing enthusiasts are dominant in the game currently. If you want good player count like +100, then making role-playing a primary objective would be beneficial and correcting the game enviroment/mechanics.

Shh, Discharge. Don't remind them that Roleplaying can lead to high playercounts. That's 2k1's schtick, now. Let 2k2 sink down into the abyss from whence it came; the hellacious pit of Power Leveling, 1337 gear, and general stupidity.

[xAndrewx]

I'm sure alot more players would still play GK. G2k1 going gold?

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by Raziel

I agree with GK being for RP, but that does not mean that we should all be equal in strength. Obviously, this is not the case irl now and it has never been. We don't want GK to be Valikorlia, and we don't want to be Communist, har har, so why shouldn't certain people be stronger if they work harder for it instead of sitting on their asses and begging for everyone else to be brought down to their level?

I dont think you understand...
I did work hard, I worked my ass off.

I had iron plate mail with an iron horned helmet. I had a simple diamond sword complete with some shield I dont remember. I remember making boots. None of these were enchanted or had special powers, it was all a fairly balanced system.

For exp you had the following to kill:
Shell Bomies (most exp)
Bomies
Evil Bomies
Bunnies
Mushrooms
and Battle Potatoes

That was -it-.

You couldn't take two of these creatures on at a time, else you would die. It would take a while to even hit a shell bomy, much more to actually kill it. I have 159597 exp and I'm at level 8. I entered the haunted houses when they were released, I was around level 7.

Now adays your friend can give you a sword that kills everything in the room in a second. Or a spell that can take everything out. I see people online with 10-20 hours and they're level 8.

So before you go off and start to say that the people who are pushing for everything to be equal havn't worked hard, you need to think again.

Equality in battle means that combat is based around skill rather then that sword of +1337 (slay Newb, everyone else lawlz)(Attacks: physical, heavenly) or whatever. Granted it still does not make Raziel the Shoemaker weaker then Elder Zurkiba Zaeri by RP means, but it's better then the levels and item system.

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

I'm sure alot more players would still play GK. G2k1 going gold?

A Normal day when Jeff was the manager of Graal 2001 when it was Gold:

[xAndrewx]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

I dont think you understand...
I did work hard, I worked my ass off.

I had iron plate mail with an iron horned helmet. I had a simple diamond sword complete with some shield I dont remember. I remember making boots. None of these were enchanted or had special powers, it was all a fairly balanced system.

For exp you had the following to kill:
Shell Bomies (most exp)
Bomies
Evil Bomies
Bunnies
Mushrooms
and Battle Potatoes

That was -it-.

You couldn't take two of these creatures on at a time, else you would die. It would take a while to even hit a shell bomy, much more to actually kill it. I have 159597 exp and I'm at level 8. I entered the haunted houses when they were released, I was around level 7.

Now adays your friend can give you a sword that kills everything in the room in a second. Or a spell that can take everything out. I see people online with 10-20 hours and they're level 8.

So before you go off and start to say that the people who are pushing for everything to be equal havn't worked hard, you need to think again.

Equality in battle means that combat is based around skill rather then that sword of +1337 (slay Newb, everyone else lawlz)(Attacks: physical, heavenly) or whatever. Granted it still does not make Raziel the Shoemaker weaker then Elder Zurkiba Zaeri by RP means, but it's better then the levels and item system.:

I still don't understand what you're suggesting now.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

A Normal day when Jeff was the manager of Graal 2001 when it was Gold:

How long ago was that?
The graal community has changed. The playerworld with the most players is Unholy Nation. I don't think G2K1 can replace it.

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

I still don't understand what you're suggesting now.


How long ago was that?
The graal community has changed. The playerworld with the most players is Unholy Nation. I don't think G2K1 can replace it.

I'm not suggesting anything with the top, merely rebuttling against Raziel in his comment of 'I worked hard for my level, you can too'

That was in 2003.
And I've been in the Graal Community longer then you, and long enough to know that it has not changed that much. And any continuation of the change of Graal into a ruined piece of work will be due to people like you who let it pass by saying
'Things change'

[xAndrewx]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

I'm not suggesting anything with the top, merely rebuttling against Raziel in his comment of 'I worked hard for my level, you can too'

That was in 2003.
And I've been in the Graal Community longer then you, and long enough to know that it has not changed that much. And any continuation of the change of Graal into a ruined piece of work will be due to people like you who let it pass by saying
'Things change'

Zurk, what other servers do you log on, other then Graal Kingdoms?
Obviously things change, you can't stop them from changing!

[Raziel]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

I dont think you understand...
I did work hard, I worked my ass off.

I had iron plate mail with an iron horned helmet. I had a simple diamond sword complete with some shield I dont remember. I remember making boots. None of these were enchanted or had special powers, it was all a fairly balanced system.

For exp you had the following to kill:
Shell Bomies (most exp)
Bomies
Evil Bomies
Bunnies
Mushrooms
and Battle Potatoes

That was -it-.

You couldn't take two of these creatures on at a time, else you would die. It would take a while to even hit a shell bomy, much more to actually kill it. I have 159597 exp and I'm at level 8. I entered the haunted houses when they were released, I was around level 7.

Now adays your friend can give you a sword that kills everything in the room in a second. Or a spell that can take everything out. I see people online with 10-20 hours and they're level 8.

So before you go off and start to say that the people who are pushing for everything to be equal havn't worked hard, you need to think again.

Equality in battle means that combat is based around skill rather then that sword of +1337 (slay Newb, everyone else lawlz)(Attacks: physical, heavenly) or whatever. Granted it still does not make Raziel the Shoemaker weaker then Elder Zurkiba Zaeri by RP means, but it's better then the levels and item system.


A Normal day when Jeff was the manager of Graal 2001 when it was Gold:

If you go back to my earlier post, you can see that I acknowledged your level as hard work for back in the day. But times change. You have a souped up Model T and want to race with the McLarens and Lamborghinis.

[Draenin]

This topic has gotten screwed up since someone mentioned people not being on bmode at the event. We're approaching 10 pages, and the original issue here has already been addressed.

[xAndrewx]

Originally Posted by Draenin

This topic has gotten screwed up since someone mentioned people not being on bmode at the event. We're approaching 10 pages, and the original issue here has already been addressed.

I guess you're right, but the B'mode isn't what changed he subject.

[Cheops]

Originally Posted by Draenin

This topic has gotten screwed up since someone mentioned people not being on bmode at the event. We're approaching 10 pages, and the original issue here has already been addressed.

Is that really a horrible thing? We thoroughly discussed the original topic, then moved on, using the original topic as a springboard for an important dicsussion in which people have strong views. I know this is around the time Darlene pipes up saying, "stay on topic" but this is the way great conversations unravel: all over the place in 10 different new directions.

Originally Posted by Raziel

You have a souped up Model T and want to race with the McLarens and Lamborghinis.

(rolling on the floor, laughing)

[Lance]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

It's not a game flaw, I bet you guys loved the new level system. Since you're not one of the top players anymore, you decide to bash it.

That's a pretty bad assumption to make. I'll go into a bit more detail in ~1-2 posts from now.

[Lance]

Originally Posted by Draenin

This topic has gotten screwed up since someone mentioned people not being on bmode at the event. We're approaching 10 pages, and the original issue here has already been addressed.

Threads go off-topic, dude. It's part of their nature to evolve and change, and there's no rule against it. (It is noteworthy, however, that spam is not allowed.)

[xAndrewx]

Originally Posted by Lance

That's a pretty bad assumption to make. I'll go into a bit more detail in ~1-2 posts from now.

From Zurks post, it's practically true.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

I should be level 88 now eh?

[StrykerTFFD]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

It's not a game flaw, I bet you guys loved the new level system. Since you're not one of the top players anymore, you decide to bash it.

I can actually think of an exp bug that is abusable at this very moment...but for the sake of not ruining your paradise that is Kingdoms, I won't say it. And no, it's not alchemy and it's not the writing of scrolls.

[xAndrewx]

Originally Posted by StrykerTFFD

I can actually think of an exp bug that is abusable at this very moment...but for the sake of not ruining your paradise that is Kingdoms, I won't say it. And no, it's not alchemy and it's not the writing of scrolls.

Hey, let me just refer you to Lance's post:

Originally Posted by Lance

Threads go off-topic, dude. It's part of their nature to evolve and change, and there's no rule against it. (It is noteworthy, however, that spam is not allowed.)

[StrykerTFFD]

Uh..unless you're saying my post is spam, then what you just did makes no sense...
And since my post isn't spam, as it shows you the "new level system" is riddled with exp bugs...uh...I'll just leave it at that.

[Lance]

Okay, so I think there isn't enough attention to a core matter in this discussion so I'll take a little time to talk about it and share some of my views.

We have what are considered two totally different things on Graal Kingdoms, one being the game mechanics (HP, exp, levels, stats, items, etc) and another being RPing. Most of you in this thread possess a basic understanding of what Roleplaying is, but some fail to recognize an important distinction.

Roleplaying is roleplaying.
Game mechanics are game mechanics.

Roleplayers can/should utilize game mechanics when they assist the roleplaying. For example, I'll talk about something mundane like walking around. If we didn't have game mechanics for walking around, a lot of roleplaying wouldn't make sense. It'd be harder to figure out where people were, and there would have to be more explanation about where people are and stuff.

Let's move on to items and stats and stuff. Let's say we've got a level 5 guy and a level 100 guy. They both are interested in roleplaying, and they want to roleplay together. Let's even say they want to have a battle. Now, game-mechanic-wise, their battle would be one-sided. There would be no imagination, no thought, no creativity involved. In fact, they wouldn't even have to actually fight to know the outcome. It'd be a waste of both of their time if they had a game-mechanics fight. It also wouldn't really show anything about their roleplaying skills. "Hurr I can swing my level 100 self's sword" is not usually considered good roleplaying.

So here's what I'm saying: You have to separate in your mind roleplaying from game mechanics. They're two extremely distinct things, and if you let the latter dominate, then you won't have much of the former, or at least nothing really with quality. The latter's meant to be support, help, assistance...but certainly not for setting all of the rules for you. You are supposed to use your imagination, and I think most people would agree with saying that's what roleplaying is all about.

[Lance]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

Hey, let me just refer you to Lance's post:

Hey, let me just refer you to the forum rules. Relevant part bolded:

Posting of spam is not allowed. Spam is defined as any irrelevant or inappropriate message. Due to the nature of the forums, what is considered spam varies between threads. In other words: in some threads, small posts such as "..." are perfectly valid responses, whereas in other threads it is inappropriate. The context of the message is very important in this regard. It is the right and responsibility of the administrators or moderators to determine whether or not a message is spam and to take appropriate action if it is.

That's not you.