New Server

[myth-simba]

Most of all graal's servers are similar hack and slash or run and shoot games.
Any ideas on a brand new server idea?
Feel free to post them and it would give those new server owners something to create in the future.

My server would be a racing server but with many modes and weapons.
A bit like F-Zero GX with their fast spaceship gears and so on.
Also i would introduce new racing modes such as Team racing where guilds could participate against other guilds and also battle mode. Where you fly around at high speeds blasting each other with your powerups.

I would include vast courses requiring quite a degree in driving skill as you will be flying over ramps, looping in twisting roads and even have obstacles in your way even including npc traffic.
Each player can choose his/ her racing machine and can later improve it on money earned through victory. players can bet money on particular matches and even play a pinkslip challenge. A pinkslip challenge is where you can take your opponent's vehicle if they lose. Its a very high stalke but very rewarding. Players can store up to 5 machines but can sell a machine for money.
If you lose your car you lose all parts purchased on it so if you do the pinkslip challenge make sure you got a reserve machine or you'll end up with the same craft you did at the beginning.

[UberModeKappa]

Graal 3D

[Crono]

Graal has too many servers.

Valikorlia is semi-dead
Maloria is semi-dead/close to dead
Delteria is dead (lucky if 10 people manage to login)
Atlantis is dead (lucky if 10 people manage to login)

[Magadal]

Originally Posted by Gerami

Graal has too many servers.

Valikorlia is semi-dead
Maloria is semi-dead/close to dead
Delteria is dead (lucky if 10 people manage to login)
Atlantis is dead (lucky if 10 people manage to login)

There were like 30 players on Atlantis in the last few days.

[myth-simba]

The reason they are dead is because the gameplay is nothing new.
An traditional graalian leveling up, hack 'n' slash simply cannot compete with today's advanced games such as world of warcraft, oblivion online (coming soon) and even the classic Diablo 2 games. These simply cannot compete against these so i think a new gameplay type should be adopted. Racing is ideal. Servers like zone where it is 100% skill cannot be challenged. Games like battlefield 2, vietnam. These are also 100% skill still cannot keep players away. I play battlefield 1942 and battlefield 2 but i still play zone on graal. But if i was playing maloria apposed to diablo 2 i would never visit maloria again. Do you understand what i am getting at? New gameplay needs to be adapted in the new upcoming servers.

Reason why these rpg stat games keep players away if you find a better version of it , is because the gameplay is exactly the same but the game with better graphics always wins. But if its a skill game online you may have lots of fun on it with or without high-tech graphics.

[jonnyrocks2]

oblivion online

Did I read correctly?
OBLIVION ONLINE?! I think I died and gone to heaven.

Where can I few updates regarding this sexy sounding game of graphic intensive ownage with a sword?

[myth-simba]

It is an upcoming patch hidden somewhere on some site.
no further info on that though, Best google search some info on it.

[Elk]

i cant wait for graal 3d

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Magadal

There were like 30 players on Atlantis in the last few days.

ok so semi-dead

[Twinny]

Oblivion Online..... man that's going to be so awesome

[zell12]

Too many servers, should of started one thing at a time to keep building players.

[UberModeKappa]

Originally Posted by Elk

i cant wait for graal 3d

I've been oh so tickled for it ever since that old,old, graal 3d thing Stefan made. When it comes out i'm dropping wow and upgrading my accounts and bringing friends.

[Tyhm]

The trouble isn't a lack of inspiration but a lack of cooperation. There's no good reason for anyone to help you make Your racing server - you get a good NAT/LAT, they work their tails off, then one of 'em says there should be...I dunno, a Chocobo knockoff. You say no, he says yes, you forbid it, he uploads it anyway, you delete it and fire him, and keep his work, he tries to make his own but the PWAs won't let him use "stolen" work from your server even though he made it. No, much better for ChocoBoy to just make his own server from the outset.

Solve this issue, and Graal shall live forever.

[Yen]

Originally Posted by Tyhm

The trouble isn't a lack of inspiration but a lack of cooperation. There's no good reason for anyone to help you make Your racing server - you get a good NAT/LAT, they work their tails off, then one of 'em says there should be...I dunno, a Chocobo knockoff. You say no, he says yes, you forbid it, he uploads it anyway, you delete it and fire him, and keep his work, he tries to make his own but the PWAs won't let him use "stolen" work from your server even though he made it. No, much better for ChocoBoy to just make his own server from the outset.

Solve this issue, and Graal shall live forever.

Yeah.
You have to either pay your scripter or give your scripter management, or things won't work.

[Sulukra]

Originally Posted by Gerami

Valikorlia is semi-dead

Slightly true, but to its credit Val had 64 players on yesterday.

And nothing was even happening.

[excaliber7388]

Actually, a racing server could be really cool.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

Actually, a racing server could be really cool.

been thinking about this since 2003 or something =o

and one dedicated to being like world cup soccer from NES :P

[z4nz0k3n]

What, the soccer field from Bro's House (Classic) isn't good enough for you?? =P I wouldn't mind playing on something like that actually. Seems that faster, pick-up-and-play servers are becoming more and more popular now that we have like 15 or so RPGraals to choose from. ^_^

I'm curious to see how a racing server would work, I just can't picture it right now. But then again I never thought about a Zone-like game working on Graal either.

To be honest I would just like to see a server that had a traditional Zelda feel to it, as that's what got me to Graal in the first place. All the servers sway away from that.

[Galdor]

Originally Posted by z4nz0k3n

To be honest I would just like to see a server that had a traditional Zelda feel to it, as that's what got me to Graal in the first place.

yea! same here

[Infernix]

I forgot delteria existed lol.

[excaliber7388]

Really.
Someone could make a Mario Cart like server for Graal.
Until graal 3d is released, it could use the normal graal view, have some nice controls, rpg elements (buying parts, powerups, etc)...this idea could really work

[Tyhm]

I'd be worried about little things. Level links, how fast you can really go across Graal with loadscreens, etc. Then again, with flying technology, anything's possible.

Originally Posted by Yen

Yeah.
You have to either pay your scripter or give your scripter management, or things won't work.

Right, exactly. And it's all fine to say that managers should wise up and be more flexible, give their staffers a say equal to their work in the shared product, as well as share any hypothetical future profits from said work, but they're under no default obligation to - "it's MY server you've poured your sweat and blood into, and if I say it's going to throw nukeshots and lizardswords to people at random, you have to live with it!"
Disenfranchised, that's the word.
So do we by default say they can take their work with them? They have to let the admin keep a copy, but they can open their own server and try to make it work? Then we have two servers branching in two directions - they insist they're irreconcilably different directions, so they should be two vastly different servers, right? But each wants the other to fail so they can swipe their opponent's playerbase...

I think that's the whole problem right there - Graal shares a small pool of players, and everyone competes over the Graalians. Graal really needs to release these customizable frontends, so Delteria can release a Delteria client (which is just a customized Graal) on the Delteria website (which is just a template hosted from graal.net) and start bringing in Delterians (which are just newbies who haven't realized their Delteria account works on all these other servers yet, and for the same price)...then maybe we'll see servers that stand alone, servers that are worth upgrading for "Just for Zone" instead of "Well, I DO get access to all 10 servers for this price..."

[_Z3phyr_]

Originally Posted by Infernix

I forgot delteria existed lol.

You know, if you people would help work for Delteria all of this crap could be fixed sooner.

[Galdor]

Originally Posted by _Z3phyr_

You know, if you people would help work for Delteria all of this crap could be fixed sooner.

uhh delteria is just a classic copy >.> fix classic instead i say.

[_Z3phyr_]

Oops I meant Delteria Dev which will replace Delteria so wait nvm I didn't mess up there

[The Evil Within]

Originally Posted by Tyhm

I think that's the whole problem right there - Graal shares a small pool of players, and everyone competes over the Graalians. Graal really needs to release these customizable frontends, so Delteria can release a Delteria client (which is just a customized Graal) on the Delteria website (which is just a template hosted from graal.net) and start bringing in Delterians (which are just newbies who haven't realized their Delteria account works on all these other servers yet, and for the same price)...then maybe we'll see servers that stand alone, servers that are worth upgrading for "Just for Zone" instead of "Well, I DO get access to all 10 servers for this price..."

That could potentially be a great idea, however, I don't think it would do all too well. Cyberjours barely pays for advertisement for themselves, this would basically have them asking classic servers to pay for their own advertisement. Just putting up a download link on the Delteria website wouldn't help too much, of coarse they have the most active forums of any Graal server, but that's because of players from the passed, and some players from other servers meaning the only people who would see the link on the Delteria website are people who already know about Graal. Not to mention the fact that it could potentially disuade certain players from playing Graal at all, especially using Delteria as an example.

Let's say Delteria payed gamefaq's for advertising space and a bunch of people downloaded the "Delteria Client." I dunno if you've logged on to Delteria lately, but unless you already know what Graal is, it has nothing to offer right now. It's purely a spar/pk server, players log on and start with 10 hearts and a level 2 sword with no quests to do (although I think quests may be reinstated on the server sometime soon, with the possible addition of some new quests for a level 3 sword and an extra heart). This is also ontop of the fact that it averages a playercount of 0 - 10 so there's not even anybody to talk to. If I had never played Graal before and was introduced to the game with Delteria I would probably never play the game again.

However for servers such as Zodiac, Unholy Nation, and Era this idea would be amazing to attract new players, however I doubt they'd be as motivated as Delterians to pay for their own advertisement. I know that there are people on Delteria (myself being one of them) that would shell out a few bucks and pool in with other player/staff to advertise to try and raise the playercount, hell the Dev server for Delteria is hosted by players not management, but there's no need for the servers with better content to do so because they already have a playercount.

I think it would be a good idea for Cyberjours to pay a few bucks to get a banner put somewhere on gamefaq's, especially with the release of the new Zelda game there's gonna be a lot of Zelda fans surfing the gaming sites in the coming months. I would also like to see links from the graalonline website to individual server sites, these things would help the playercount of all servers, and although Cyberjours may claim that they "can't afford advertisement" I really think that they'd pull in more money from new accounts than they would be spending on a few months of advertisement. Even if they only got 20 new p2p subscribers, that's $600 which is more than enough to pay for a couple of months of advertising space, and that's if Graal is still only $30 for an account.

[_Z3phyr_]

Holy Christ, $30???

Mine was $19.

Inflation sucks.

[The Evil Within]

Originally Posted by _Z3phyr_

Holy Christ, $30???

Mine was $19.

Inflation sucks.

I payed $19 for my 6Burning6Church6 and Grease_Man2 account back in 2000/2001...whenever they put in that stupid ghost stuff...But I'm pretty sure I payed $29 for this account right here in 2004.

[Tyhm]

*shrugs* Maybe Delteria was a bad example. So let's call this Hypothetical Server "Hypothetica". Say Billy makes a server and names it Hypothetica. It competes with all the other Graal servers, and he's reduced to pandering to the lowest common denominator, trying to make his server the "coolest" to the existing Graal playerbase - but bear in mind, this is not the same as making a Good server, it just means that on his server everyone can be Vejita with an uzi at first level. Hypothetica fails to evolve, Graal suffers as all servers introduce their own take on the "Vejita has an uzi" technology.
On the other hand, say every server's given the opportunity to court their own playerbase. Billy decides the "Vejita Has An Uzi" cop-out sucks, deletes it, rebuilds his server so it's actually presentable as, I dunno, a MegaMan themed server, and advertises it on BobAndGeorge.com at $20 for a month. All the Megaman fans jump on Hypothetica, which grows AWAY from the standard-issue Classic Clones and flourishes as a game all on its own(A). A few Megaman fans get bored of jumping around and blasting the same 3 robot masters on Hypothetica, which is still on its growth spurt, go back to the server list, and...hey, Zone's got guns too, let's see if that's any good. Thus, while Hypothetica gets first crack at their own players (maybe the first time you play a server's client the serverlist doesn't even come up), eventually everyone profits from the increased playerbase, and all it took was Hypothetica getting the word out on an indy webcomic.

Naturally, this requires a few more steps than this - the website needs to be revamped, Hypothetica needs a smooth website interface, ideally the restrictions on passwording newbies could be relaxed - Newbies can save via password, as long as the password's sufficiently annoying that they'll want to upgrade someday...you know, so we can start calling Graal a shareware game again...

(A) Optionally: In fact, other servers who DON'T consider themselves Megaman Clones join in a partnership with Hypothetica, and cooperatively develop scripts for baddies, music players, rescripted buddy lists, etc: on Hypothetica all the baddies are cyborgs of the baddies on "Wiki-man", on Wiki-man they're all 3D-Gradiented versions of the Classic baddies, etc. But of course, under the current situation nobody wants to SHARE work, as that'll benefit "the competition". Because all the servers are basically the same.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Galdor

uhh delteria is just a classic copy >.> fix classic instead i say.

not really but i dont expect you to see the difference

[The Evil Within]

Originally Posted by Tyhm

*shrugs* Maybe Delteria was a bad example. So let's call this Hypothetical Server "Hypothetica". Say Billy makes a server and names it Hypothetica. It competes with all the other Graal servers, and he's reduced to pandering to the lowest common denominator, trying to make his server the "coolest" to the existing Graal playerbase - but bear in mind, this is not the same as making a Good server, it just means that on his server everyone can be Vejita with an uzi at first level. Hypothetica fails to evolve, Graal suffers as all servers introduce their own take on the "Vejita has an uzi" technology.
On the other hand, say every server's given the opportunity to court their own playerbase. Billy decides the "Vejita Has An Uzi" cop-out sucks, deletes it, rebuilds his server so it's actually presentable as, I dunno, a MegaMan themed server, and advertises it on BobAndGeorge.com at $20 for a month. All the Megaman fans jump on Hypothetica, which grows AWAY from the standard-issue Classic Clones and flourishes as a game all on its own(A). A few Megaman fans get bored of jumping around and blasting the same 3 robot masters on Hypothetica, which is still on its growth spurt, go back to the server list, and...hey, Zone's got guns too, let's see if that's any good. Thus, while Hypothetica gets first crack at their own players (maybe the first time you play a server's client the serverlist doesn't even come up), eventually everyone profits from the increased playerbase, and all it took was Hypothetica getting the word out on an indy webcomic.

Naturally, this requires a few more steps than this - the website needs to be revamped, Hypothetica needs a smooth website interface, ideally the restrictions on passwording newbies could be relaxed - Newbies can save via password, as long as the password's sufficiently annoying that they'll want to upgrade someday...you know, so we can start calling Graal a shareware game again...

(A) Optionally: In fact, other servers who DON'T consider themselves Megaman Clones join in a partnership with Hypothetica, and cooperatively develop scripts for baddies, music players, rescripted buddy lists, etc: on Hypothetica all the baddies are cyborgs of the baddies on "Wiki-man", on Wiki-man they're all 3D-Gradiented versions of the Classic baddies, etc. But of course, under the current situation nobody wants to SHARE work, as that'll benefit "the competition". Because all the servers are basically the same.

Like I said this could be a good idea for any server if the server decides they want to put out the money, but the only servers willing to do so are those which are lacking in players, and they're usually lacking in players for a reason (although other than the newly added spar system, UN has had a reason to have a low playercount for years yet it thrives so well). Let's put Hypothetica back as Delteria. Right now Delteria sucks, and people would put out the $20 to advertise for it, but in around a year when the new overworld is completed (This is the same as the revamp of Hypothetica) the playercount is going to thrive again due to old players returning and new players from other servers coming out to check what is new just from word of mouth. After this happens Delteria is going to have an average playercount of atleast 70 again, and as I said before once a playerworld reaches a semi-high playercount they really don't feel the need to personally advertise. Staff and players have already spent somewhere around $180 in the passed year and a half in total to just host the Dev server of Delteria, there are other servers who are spending the same amount of cash for their Dev servers, I highly doubt that after 2 years of shelling out money just to get the server done that anybody is going to want to pay money to try and get new players to come and give more money to cyberjours unless their server is a total wash out with the current Graal community, which usually happens for a reason.

I really don't see how this could hurt at all, it would definately help get some new subscribers to cyberjours, it may even also get a few more players on some of the more inactive servers, but I still believe that Graal would be doing better if Unixmad or Stefan put out the money to advertise Graal instead of asking people to do it for them, however, Classic servers to get a free ride when it comes to hosting so perhaps suggesting that they advertise for themselves isn't really asking much? :shrugs: I dunno why I'm arguing against this idea, like I said there is really no downside to it, I just don't really see any of the servers utilizing the option to promote themselves.

[Galdor]

Originally Posted by Gerami

not really but i dont expect you to see the difference

fine might be other npcs and sign texts.

[The Evil Within]

Originally Posted by Galdor

fine might be other npcs and sign texts.

There's also the fact that it has a functioning spar arena, unless Classic finally decided to add one...You also may be forgetting that Delteria designed the spar arena design used on all the servers based around sparring now, and was also the first server to introduce a weekly (or monthly for you UTC fans) Spar Tournament, and also came up with the idea for giving a statue for a prize. They also are the first server to introduce a PK arena, although the idea of the PK Arena never took off until it was brought over to UN.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that Delteria is not "just another classic rip-off" but that every classic server is "just another Delteria rip-off". I'm pretty sure that the rip-off's will not stop there either, once new Delteria is finished and released I believe that it is going to yet-again revamp what is thought necessary to consider a server "good". Delteria may not have had any recent updates which is why the playercount is lacking, but this is mainly because we are busy pushing the limits of Graal again as we have done countless times in the passed, too busy working on completely new, innovative gameplay to bother making redundant updates to an outdated server.

[_Z3phyr_]

[UberModeKappa]

Graal 3D PLEASE

[Tyhm]

Originally Posted by The Evil Within

Let's put Hypothetica back as Delteria.

Could we not? I deviated from the discussion of whether or not Delteria sucks because it's utterly irrelevant to the discussion of whether or not servers should advertise for themselves verses trying to steal each others' players.

Originally Posted by The Evil Within

due to old players returning and new players from other servers coming out to check what is new just from word of mouth.

See above - this is not a GOOD thing, Delteria stealing UN and Maloria and Classic and Hypothetica's players. Before: Graal has 100 players evenly distributed. After: Graal has 100 players, and 70 of them are on Delteria. Not a win. It's rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.

Originally Posted by The Evil Within

Staff and players have already spent somewhere around $180 in the passed year and a half in total to just host the Dev server of Delteria, there are other servers who are spending the same amount of cash for their Dev servers, I highly doubt that after 2 years of shelling out money just to get the server done that anybody is going to want to pay money to try and get new players to come and give more money to cyberjours unless their server is a total wash out with the current Graal community, which usually happens for a reason.

That's rather a seperate issue, but nonetheless a solid one: Why the hell does Graal require each developer to have an upgraded account? I'd see that abolished first and foremost. It's money better spent drawing traffic.

Originally Posted by The Evil Within

I dunno why I'm arguing against this idea, like I said there is really no downside to it, I just don't really see any of the servers utilizing the option to promote themselves.

In retrospect I think I have overlooked a key element to this: Graal would have to actually get on that whole "And the server gets 10% of each upgrade originating from their site" theory. If 100 Graalians go to GraalOnline.com and upgrade, good job Unixmad and Stefan, money for the servers, money for paying off old debts, money for developing G3D. If 10 Graalians go to Hypothetica.Graal.Net and upgrade, good job Billy, that's $20 for you - put it towards advertising, or upkeep, or hire that goth kid in your art class to design the new vampire-mech graphics, or whatever. I daresay that would encourage people to bring in the newbies.

[Galdor]

Originally Posted by Tyhm

or hire that goth kid in your art class to design the new vampire-mech graphics, or whatever.

lol xD

[The Evil Within]

Originally Posted by Tyhm

In retrospect I think I have overlooked a key element to this: Graal would have to actually get on that whole "And the server gets 10% of each upgrade originating from their site" theory. If 100 Graalians go to GraalOnline.com and upgrade, good job Unixmad and Stefan, money for the servers, money for paying off old debts, money for developing G3D. If 10 Graalians go to Hypothetica.Graal.Net and upgrade, good job Billy, that's $20 for you - put it towards advertising, or upkeep, or hire that goth kid in your art class to design the new vampire-mech graphics, or whatever. I daresay that would encourage people to bring in the newbies.

That's actually not a half-bad idea and would probably get a lot of servers who have faith in their projects to do some hardcore advertising. I don't agree with the developers not having to pay for Graal though, possibly revert back to giving a server a designated amount of classic accounts (no more than 7) to distribute to developers (and only developers) as they please, but if you were to give a Manager the power to call somebody a developer on his server and have this persons account as a classic account I could see Graal possibly losing money.

I also think that the accounts should only work on their designated servers, if you develop for UN you shouldn't have a free ride to play on Zodiac, they should also only work if the account is computer ID locked to avoid the possible sharing of developer accounts, and of coarse the managers would need to be able to edit the accounts password so when a developer is fired the account does not go with him. These accounts should not be able to be upgraded at all either, if a developer wants to upgrade an account he makes a new one, this would be to avoid any claims from a developer saying that he wasted X hours on Zodiac on his Delteria_Developer1 account, because no information would be saved on any server other than the server he was just fired, or quit from.

Btw, my main reason for saying they limit the amount of "Developer accounts" is because most people who spend their time learning GS2 and playing with the level editor enough to make a decent level have already upgraded their own account. If you were talking about making it so classic accounts could log onto hosted servers as long as they are given access as a developer by the Manager then I actually completely agree, it is pretty bad to ask people to pay for gold/vip so they can work on a server after the Manager already payed $60 - $100 to get that server hosted, it also makes it near impossible for hosted servers to find decent staff. This would have to be monitered though, which wouldn't be hard, if all of a sudden there's a hosted server with 45 players on it, a PWA would just have to log on and look at the developers list to realize what's going on.

[UberModeKappa]

Originally Posted by Tyhm

Why the hell does Graal require each developer to have an upgraded account? I'd see that abolished first and foremost. It's money better spent drawing traffic.

PRECISELY!!!

The way i see it, if you have your own playerworld, you should be able to make a list of accounts that can connect to the playerworld regardless if it is not upgraded. Currently, the developers are basically paying its employer to produce content.

[Tyhm]

and most importantly, Graal will make more money from PWs bringing in new players than it'll lose from the developers not having to go Gold, and from the 10% going to the PW Owners, and even from the occasional player who chooses to keep a huge list of 28-character passwords rather than upgrade...because instead of Unixmad and Stefan being the only ones who care if the servers turn a profit, suddenly every serverop cares really a lot.

I don't even get why developers need Gold or Upgrade in the first place...so what if their account resets every time they log off? It gives them perspective.

As to letting developers either assign anonymous Staff accounts or a list of accounts to be treated as staff on their server, I say the latter. If Hypothetica has 90 staff entries, that's their own dumb fault, and their own security breach. If Hypothetica wants to do something with serverstrings to emulate saving accounts without passwords, that's money out of Billy's pocket too...and it'll suck for him in a year, when Graal decides to charge him for another year of hosting, since he's just freeloading as it stands.

Ain't perfect, but it beats what we're doing now.