Miscellaneous Kingdom Discussion

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by GoZelda

Roleplaying wasn't 'made'... And I doubt that the origins were solely 'made' for fun.

Uh, roleplaying was made as a form of entertainment, its a form of immersive dynamic storytelling. But do tell, what factors of roleplaying are more important than having fun? If you just have fun doing whatever and don't follow any rp rules, well of course that's not RPing, but when it comes to RPing, what is more important than having fun while you are rping?

[GryffonDurime]

If the majority of RPers are humans that would hate Zormites for being another race, why haven't they jumped up and slaughtered the infidel Elves of the Forest?

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by GryffonDurime

If the majority of RPers are humans that would hate Zormites for being another race, why haven't they jumped up and slaughtered the infidel Elves of the Forest?

I missed that - why would the human's hate zormites for being another race?

If zormites were human hating and genocidal then it would be cause for concern. My problem with them reverting to fish now is that it would undo GK history retroactively, which whether sad or not, is the only rp history we've been building for the last few years.

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

I missed that - why would the human's hate zormites for being another race?

If zormites were human hating and genocidal then it would be cause for concern. My problem with them reverting to fish now is that it would undo GK history retroactively, which whether sad or not, is the only rp history we've been building for the last few years.

And you step on your own feet here!
You fail to listen to me -_-

Just as we cant forget 2k2 history, they cant forget 2k1 history. And according to the timeline 2k1 set about there is no Zormite Republic.

So this is what you do. You rename it! GASP! The Zormites established a colony on an island but a tribe of primative humans attacked the settlements and the Zormites gave up on colonizing it.

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

And you step on your own feet here!
You fail to listen to me -_-

Just as we cant forget 2k2 history, they cant forget 2k1 history. And according to the timeline 2k1 set about there is no Zormite Republic.

As you said yourself, the two histories are inconsistant with each other. Since 2k2 history is far more relevant (it is contemporary, is played, and is directly tied to the active server), it takes priority, naturally.

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

As you said yourself, the two histories are inconsistant with each other. Since 2k2 history is far more relevant (it is contemporary, is played, and is directly tied to the active server), it takes priority, naturally.

No, no it doesn't...

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

No, no it doesn't...

Then explain why.

2k1 hasn't been played in years, 2k2 is being played as we speak and has been played for years. The interruptions caused by the changes that occured between 2k1 and 2k2 were years ago, and changing 2k2's history now to resemble 2k1 better would create new interruptions now.

This isn't superstring theory, its rather basic logic 101. So explain with some logic just why.

How can 2k1's history be more relevant to players than the history those very players have been a part of creating for the last several years?

[fireedragn]

Zurk, you're right. 2K2 Zormites are supposed to be fishes. However if you made a strong case for retaining Zormite's fishiness way back when, then maybe something could have been done about it. Unfortunately, now it's just too late. I'd love to see Zormite become fishes again, but it won't happen. I agree with you that Zormite needs to change it's name because, in reality, it isn't even Zormite anymore.


Anyway, I agree that CP started to decline just as, or right before, Ghost Pirate left. GK was at it's high point when the highest level was 10ish. Now, GK is just a rotting, disease-ridden, smelly carcass. GK needs to die before it can live again. We need a server reset, dammit.

P.S. The original kingdom leaders were probably the best. I wish they'd come back.

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

Then explain why.

2k1 hasn't been played in years, 2k2 is being played as we speak and has been played for years. The interruptions caused by the changes that occured between 2k1 and 2k2 were years ago, and changing 2k2's history now to resemble 2k1 better would create new interruptions now.

This isn't superstring theory, its rather basic logic 101. So explain with some logic just why.

How can 2k1's history be more relevant to players than the history those very players have been a part of creating for the last several years?

I'll give you an answer when you supply me a question, a real question. You are a hypocrite and you obviously want the Zormites to remain human.

Like I said before, because a book is never read doesn't mean there is no story.

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

I'll give you an answer when you supply me a question, a real question. You are a hypocrite and you obviously want the Zormites to remain human.

Like I said before, because a book is never read doesn't mean there is no story.

Um

Originally Posted by busyrobot

How can 2k1's history be more relevant to players than the history those very players have been a part of creating for the last several years?

I never said 2k1 didn't have a story or that it was never read, just that regardless of whether its been read or not, why do you claim it is more relevant to players than the history those players have been a part of creating for the last several years?

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

I never said 2k1 didn't have a story or that it was never read, just that regardless of whether its been read or not, why do you claim it is more relevant to players than the history those players have been a part of creating for the last several years?

Wow, you did too say 2k1 didn't have a story. '2k1 is dead so it doesn't count', along those lines.

You said that it doesn't count... so if there is no book then there is no story.

And the German soldiers fought for Germany in WWII, not to kill the Jews. But when you see their flag that is what you see. If people are misinformed then they build from that misinformation. If I say that I have proof that the world is cubical then some scientist could say 'I have proof that the angles are perfect 90 degree angles'... it just builds ontop of each other, but in the end it is -wrong-.

People write stories to correspond to an overall story. If I were to write a book, lets say a fantasy book, then I would not put in 'OMGZ NE1 GOTZ 1?'. No, if you want to include that information then you would word it differently.

This is Zen's story: Revolution against Toran - Rise of the Archist Party.
Here is the real story: Revolution against Toran - Zen does traditional stuff - Makes it into Zormite Republic

He rewrote the story to follow a better roleplaying book.

So how do we solve this? The Zormites say their history was fish OR they just cut all ties from Zormite and make a new kingdom. A rose is not a tulip no matter how long you look at it. What's so wrong with becoming the Booga Republic or what ever? Would it really take that much work? If it would then I would personally do the work.

Padren, final request. Start to be logical and stop being a damn hypocrite

[Nappa]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

So how do we solve this? The Zormites say their history was fish OR they just cut all ties from Zormite and make a new kingdom. A rose is not a tulip no matter how long you look at it. What's so wrong with becoming the Booga Republic or what ever? Would it really take that much work? If it would then I would personally do the work.

This is all that I want. I am not forcing you guys to do anything else. You guys have already thrown away the fact that the entire 2k1 Zormite existed, cut all ties with them and change your name. Your name is Zormite because you know, it has to do with the fact that you are (supposed to be) fishes.

http://img105.exs.cx/img105/3043/winky.gif

[GoZelda]

I'd just like to state the following:
On 2k1, the Zormites hated humans. Correct?
So, when they got blasted away from 2k1 and had to sail to some stupid island, they ofcourse still hated the humans - the moon probably was their fault somehow.
So, when some settlers come on their island, they're just gonna take it?
Like wtf. Even if you don't hate a certain race you won't just let them take your ground. The Zormites would have to be slaughtered, or the humans.
So, if the Zormites won, how the bloody hell comes they aren't fishes?
So, if the humans won, how the bloody hell comes they're call themselves Zormites?

There. Go write a new pathetic attempt at covering up your kingdom's ineptitude at RPing.

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by GoZelda

So, when they got blasted away from 2k1 and had to sail to some stupid island, they ofcourse still hated the humans - the moon probably was their fault somehow.

Techincally the Zormites never left the 2k1 island. They were the only kingdom to remain behind, they did establish a small colony though. Then the metor hit and communications were lost for a short time.

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

Wow, you did too say 2k1 didn't have a story. '2k1 is dead so it doesn't count', along those lines.

You said that it doesn't count... so if there is no book then there is no story.

It has a story but it is dead, and when you weight two equal RP disruptions, one being zormite going human, and the other of zormite going to fish, you have to weigh which distrupts the past and what disrupts the present to determine which is of greater importance.

Look, I am not being hypcritical. If Zormite started out as human, but became fish the moment GK started - I would be arguing they need to stay fish. If 2k1 had gone with a human zormite dispite your wishes, and changed to fish at the start of 2k2, I doubt you'd be arguing for a change of them to humans now.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

And the German soldiers fought for Germany in WWII, not to kill the Jews. But when you see their flag that is what you see. If people are misinformed then they build from that misinformation. If I say that I have proof that the world is cubical then some scientist could say 'I have proof that the angles are perfect 90 degree angles'... it just builds ontop of each other, but in the end it is -wrong-.

Um, I don't understand what you are saying here. The German soldiers fought for Germany and the extermination of the Jews, and I suspect their families back home would feel reprocussions if they defected, so you can throw that into the mix too.
What do you mean by their flag - the **** flag? Yeah...that pretty much stands for all the goals of the 3rd Reich. What are you getting at?

The world is not cubical and that is a demonstratable fact. You build on something faulty it falls apart. I assume you are implying that I am building on some element of false logic, but I have agreed with all your factual points, such as that Zormite of course was a fish kingdom on 2k1 and was a human kingdom at the start of 2k2. What other 'mis'facts do you think I am wrongly building on?

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

People write stories to correspond to an overall story. If I were to write a book, lets say a fantasy book, then I would not put in 'OMGZ NE1 GOTZ 1?'.

... ... gooood

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

No, if you want to include that information then you would word it differently.

This is Zen's story: Revolution against Toran - Rise of the Archist Party.
Here is the real story: Revolution against Toran - Zen does traditional stuff - Makes it into Zormite Republic

Elements like 'Zen does traditional stuff' are exceptionally vague - you can't expect that to mean anything to anyone who doesn't know what it references in your head.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

He rewrote the story to follow a better roleplaying book.

I think that GK as a whole staff wise, is responsible for the 'zormite of humans' thing.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

So how do we solve this? The Zormites say their history was fish OR they just cut all ties from Zormite and make a new kingdom. A rose is not a tulip no matter how long you look at it. What's so wrong with becoming the Booga Republic or what ever? Would it really take that much work? If it would then I would personally do the work.

On GK the Zormites have never had a history of fish. On GK they have always been the Zormites, and your strange obsession with making some perfect matchup with 2k1 may make sense to you but has a high cost to GK and does no real good.

So, you want to say, that Zormite has been fish all along, and when they fought along side us they were actually killing us for being ebil humans, and everything that has happened in the entire history of GK just doesn't matter?

It is not logical to put more value on 2k1's history than on 2k2's history, when 2k1 has been out of the loop of graal for years and has nothing to do with any of the modern events in GK other than a conceptual seed at the origin of GK.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

Padren, final request. Start to be logical and stop being a damn hypocrite

Get over yourself. Your logic is flawed. As I said, if zormite started out as humans and changed to fish at the start of GK, I'd be arguing they should stay fish. I am consistant and not being hypocritical at all. Look up the word if you have to.

[Moonite]

Could u Guys Stop?
Im Not Going to Read this anymore -_-

[Nappa]

Padren, don't you see that noone here is buying your crappy arguements but yourself ?

God, you need to stop being so airheaded.

[Nappa]

Originally Posted by Moonite

Could u Guys Stop?
Im Not Going to Read this anymore -_-

Noones forcing you to read anything. Go to another forum if you don't want to read it.

[Zurkiba]

Padren, I'm not even going to reply to that. Much like I wont stare at a pile of dog crap.

You dont realise that you are wrong. And no, that's not my opinion. If you came in here and said 2+2=5 then I would slap you and then find your teachers and slap them and then I would tell you that you are wrong. Same situation here.

Edit//
and 2k1 and 2k2 are directly linked. Read the storyline. 2k1 kingdoms moved to 2k2.

[Nappa]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

Padren, I'm not even going to reply to that. Much like I wont stare at a pile of dog crap.

They are both almost the same thing anyway.

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

Padren, I'm not even going to reply to that. Much like I wont stare at a pile of dog crap.

You can't reply to it, you're arguments have fully broken down and you are left only with weak insults.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

You dont realise that you are wrong. And no, that's not my opinion. If you came in here and said 2+2=5 then I would slap you and then find your teachers and slap them and then I would tell you that you are wrong. Same situation here.

Except that in this case, I am saying 2+2=4. Get your math right

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

Edit//
and 2k1 and 2k2 are directly linked. Read the storyline. 2k1 kingdoms moved to 2k2.

Never said they weren't.
All I said, is that when you have a discrepency that occured years ago, and the only way to fix that discrepency is to create a new one now of at least equal size, it is better - since you'll have one either way - to leave the discrepency in the past instead of create a new one that messes up current affairs.

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

You can't reply to it, you're arguments have fully broken down and you are left only with weak insults.

Except that in this case, I am saying 2+2=4. Get your math right

Never said they weren't.
All I said, is that when you have a discrepency that occured years ago, and the only way to fix that discrepency is to create a new one now of at least equal size, it is better - since you'll have one either way - to leave the discrepency in the past instead of create a new one that messes up current affairs.

The fact of the matter is this, I've already ANSWERED your "arguements" (if that's what you want to call them) and you're just filibustering now.

My arguements have not been broken down, I'm just not going to repeat myself to bicker over the internet.

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

The fact of the matter is this, I've already ANSWERED your "arguements" (if that's what you want to call them) and you're just filibustering now.

My arguements have not been broken down, I'm just not going to repeat myself to bicker over the internet.

Then do quote your words of wisdom and put me in my place. So far all I have seen is you say "Zormite is fish" dispite the fact it has clearly not been, that "Nappa is a true Zormite" when no one in Zormite would consider him one and he fails any meaningful test of what it is to be Zormite.

You have said that "2k1 is more important than 2k2" without giving any reason why. You have made the -decent- point that the sequential story line of 2k1 to 2k2 is broken by the shift to humans, and I never disagreed with that. I have not seen you make any argument though how preserving that story line at the expense of GK history is in GK's better interest or serves the interests of why 2k1/2k2 had a storyline in the first place.

I cannot filibuster as there is nothing you can do that I would block. Everyone in Zormite and the probably most other active players in GK consider the idea cracked.
Even if you convinced Stefan to force a change against the people of Zormite's own will, that is not something I can effect and therefore still can't be considered filibustering against.

You have not given any reason why 2k1's history, is more important than 2k2's history. You have stated that it makes a story, and that the story is better preserved by ratifying 2k2's history. But if you are going to ratify the story at all, why not ratify the 2k1 history instead, since no one has been playing with the derivations that set that history apart from GK...for the entire history of GK? That would have a much smaller (zero actually) impact on players today, yet would fix the discrepency that bothers you so much.

Personally, I think that the hiccup in the history, should be worked around in a way that preserves both histories the best, but I guess I am sentimental that way. I suppose if you are really die hard set on having a consistent storybook style history, it would not bother me if you changed 2k1 to fit 2k2's history, but I suspect it would bother a lot of old players, and if that was the case I'd still end up arguing it should be left alone or the impact minimized.

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

Then do quote your words of wisdom and put me in my place. So far all I have seen is you say "Zormite is fish" dispite the fact it has clearly not been, that "Nappa is a true Zormite" when no one in Zormite would consider him one and he fails any meaningful test of what it is to be Zormite.

I never said any of those (excluding the Zormite are fishes part)

Obviously YOU do not know what it is to be Zormite

And I am not going to go through this thread because you're too lazy to use your damn finger. You want everyone to do the work for you because you're just damn lazy.

Originally Posted by busyrobot

You have said that "2k1 is more important than 2k2" without giving any reason why. You have made the -decent- point that the sequential story line of 2k1 to 2k2 is broken by the shift to humans, and I never disagreed with that. I have not seen you make any argument though how preserving that story line at the expense of GK history is in GK's better interest or serves the interests of why 2k1/2k2 had a storyline in the first place.

Have I really stated 2k1 is more important than 2k2? Doubtful, so stop putting quotation marks around stuff I've never said.

I've already answered the rest of your question in a previous post.

Originally Posted by busyrobot

You have not given any reason why 2k1's history, is more important than 2k2's history. You have stated that it makes a story, and that the story is better preserved by ratifying 2k2's history. But if you are going to ratify the story at all, why not ratify the 2k1 history instead, since no one has been playing with the derivations that set that history apart from GK...for the entire history of GK? That would have a much smaller (zero actually) impact on players today, yet would fix the discrepency that bothers you so much.

It would be similiar to if Lord of the Rings came out, then the Two Towers had Jean-Luc and the Enterprise attacking the Klingons. It just doesn't work. The same for this situation.

About the change 2k1 history, no. If that happens then Graal Kingdoms is dead and the rest are retarded. It would be as if you took Shakespere and spit on it, then you rewrote it all.

If you would actually open your mind you would've understood the misinformation part. But no, you're too ignorant and stupid to understand any of it.

Originally Posted by busyrobot

Personally, I think that the hiccup in the history, should be worked around in a way that preserves both histories the best, but I guess I am sentimental that way. I suppose if you are really die hard set on having a consistent storybook style history, it would not bother me if you changed 2k1 to fit 2k2's history, but I suspect it would bother a lot of old players, and if that was the case I'd still end up arguing it should be left alone or the impact minimized.

Read above.

----

I'm getting tired of fighting with you. You just cant argue. It would be if you were to be in a quizbowl with a mentally handicaped person who has never been in school.

So stop repeating yourself and if you want to post here then post logical things. And listen to me when I tell you that you are wrong.

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

I never said any of those (excluding the Zormite are fishes part)

You did say that nappa is a true zormite and the fact he is not on the member list does not mean he's not a member.

So when you say 'any of those except the one' and we are discussing two points, the second of which you also actually did say, sorry, what the heck are you talking about?

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

Obviously YOU do not know what it is to be Zormite

Exactly what it means to be Dustarian or a Forest member or a CP etc: to be on the member list and generally considered a member of that kingdom by its own member base. If a kingdom leader lets you join, then regardless of what the members say, you are a member and they can take it or leave it. If you get kicked out but most of the members consider you a member still, that is a gray zone. If you are not on the list and no one in that kingdom considers you a member, that means you are obviously not a member.

I don't know why you have trouble with such a simple concept, you really do get thick headed.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

And I am not going to go through this thread because you're too lazy to use your damn finger. You want everyone to do the work for you because you're just damn lazy.

I actually have gone to the effort of debating you when most others say not to bother, you are a tard that won't change your opinions regardless of any amount of logic and will never conceed regardless of any amount of evidence you are wrong. I hardly would say I am lazy.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

Have I really stated 2k1 is more important than 2k2? Doubtful, so stop putting quotation marks around stuff I've never said.

Everytime I have stated the obvious, that the integrity of 2k2 has priority over the integrity of 2k1, you have said "no" and quite clearly stated 2k1 takes priority. Read your own words before you claim others are putting words in your mouth.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

I've already answered the rest of your question in a previous post.

Your answers have been heavily flawed, read below.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

It would be similiar to if Lord of the Rings came out, then the Two Towers had Jean-Luc and the Enterprise attacking the Klingons. It just doesn't work. The same for this situation.

The goal of the Lord of the Rings is to tell a story, 2k1/GK is a roleplaying server, where the goal of telling a consistant story is a minor factor in trying to aid roleplaying.
Your example also has no bearing on time, which is a critical component of this debate. The break in the story line occured long in the past, and a different storyline has been played out ever since, that is consistent and has been consistent with itself ever since.

You cite an example where all sense breaks down at that moment and nothing can make sense going forward whatsoever, which is very different than the situation on GK.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

About the change 2k1 history, no. If that happens then Graal Kingdoms is dead and the rest are retarded. It would be as if you took Shakespere and spit on it, then you rewrote it all.

First, explain how that would kill GK - you make statements as if they are facts, you could add fruitloops to 2k1's history for all I care and it would not change one thing on 2k2.

As to Shakespere, explain such a bizzare comparison. 2k1 is no Shakespere, nor is its purpose supposed to be vaguely similar. It was a server that people played to have fun and roleplay, but it is not used anymore. It was used as the basis for GK's story, but clearly history shows it was not used entirely and some elements were dropped.
No one is going to write a tolkienesque book about 2k1/2k2 and if they did, they would have to modify much of it just for it to be entertianing - which would be entirely fine anyway. RP servers are supposed to be played and have fun roleplaying on, but you seem to act like they have to be intransient from conception to death, and the original storyline must be maintained at all costs, regardless of whether you have to destroy years of contemporary history or not. The storyline only exists to contribute to the fun and interest of an RP server, and if you have to change the storyline due to some problem with it, it does - sorry to say it - make more sense to change the past then the present. You act as if 2k1 stumbled on some sort of holy RP perfection - it did not. It is just a storyline like any other.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

If you would actually open your mind you would've understood the misinformation part. But no, you're too ignorant and stupid to understand any of it.

Who is being close minded?

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

Read above.
----
I'm getting tired of fighting with you. You just cant argue. It would be if you were to be in a quizbowl with a mentally handicaped person who has never been in school.

So stop repeating yourself and if you want to post here then post logical things. And listen to me when I tell you that you are wrong.

You are being a fool Zurk. You spend all your time being beligerent and not even trying to debate, so of course you are getting tired. You have a handful of concepts about RPing and this server especially, that are rather flawed and not shared by the general community at large.

I would not bother to debate you at this point but I am rather sick and tired of the long since settled fish issue coming up when it has so long since been put to death.
I cannot help the fact you did not get your way back when GK was first started, there was a chance for your ideas to work had they been implemented then.

However, you continue to push the point, I mean, sorry, you lost it a long time ago, and your arguments have less basis now than they did when GK was first constructed.

Gore lost the 2000 election - even if he got more votes. That is a long settled issue, but do Gore supporters drag every dumb thread off into how 'everything will suck until it is fixed that....' and stuff? No, and if they did, they'd meet as much resistance as you do now.

Friendly advice: Your ideas failed, move on. Improve GK based on GK, and get over your old ideas that only made sense if they were implemented when GK was first launched.

[LordZen]

Zurkiba himself helped me form a logical bridge between 2k1 and 2k2's history gap. I read a thread a long time ago, I believe in the 2k1 forum, and used what happened on 2k2 to help explain the new state of a kingdom on 2k1 when that server was to be revived. He said "until the rise of the Archist Party".

So, anyways, I think the histories are easily connected. The way in which we retell history about these servers is not that we make it up as we go. But rather, we take the events that actually happened, and add background to it based around those events, so that the true history can be retold as a good story. That is of course, the goal.

So, when I read that, it made me think. And I believe I have a great way to link the histories and explain the situation of 2k2's Zormite, while still being true to the histories that actually happened.

Near the end of the 2k1 era, a meteorite came crashing down, killing many and throwing the human kingdoms into disarray. The Dustarian kingdom was most affected, as that was the site of impact, while the Zormite kingdom was least affected, as they had the water to retreat to, etc.

So, groups of humans left their old home which was still very much in chaos and ruin, with the intention of colonizing a new group of islands. The Zormite kingdom, with their own interests in mind, obviously wanted a foothold of their own in this new region, having the most population to spare and of course not wanting to be at some sort of disadvantage in the future. So, even though they were least needing, a group of Zormites were dispatched and settled in the North Western area of the new region.

All of the colonies were very distant from their homeland, and communication between the old and new worlds were few and far between. The Zormite colony was originally set up to mirror the government of its homeland, with an appointed Regent at its head.

The conflicts and tensions of the old world were not that of the new world. The colonials had no reason to bicker between one another on behalf of their motherland. Even if a kingdom was at war with another, the colonies would have no way of knowing it. As a result, the Zormite and Dustarian colonies formed warm diplomatic relations which survived throughout most of 2k2's history.

Also, since there was originally 4 human colonies and 1 zormite colony, with time the pace of procreation of the human race outmatched that of the zormite race by far. The zormite colony was finding it difficult to maintain itself and began to worry about defense issues being so sparsely populated in contrast to all other colonies. With this in mind, the Zormites of the colony saw little reason to hold steadfast to their archaic xenophobic principles. Instead, they chose to allow humans to settle on their island, have families, fill the gaps, and be integrated into colonial Zormite society.

The first zormite appointed to govern the colony by the homeland, was Hippie. He oversaw the colony's early development, but was quickly replaced. A replacement was sent from the homeland before Hippie was even able to officially take the title of Regent. It was thought that the mood back in the old world had changed suddenly, and the leadership felt that more of a hardliner was necessary to run the colony. Torkanansu was their answer.

He often left management of the kingdom to others, and retreated to his villa and enjoyed the fruits of his position. His power, and the absence of a superior watching over him regularly, got to his head, and began to disregard the wants and needs of the colony's people. During Torkanansu's reign, was also the time in which humans were allowed to come to the island and settle. They were already beginning to gain a significant voice within the colony.

One, Zen Archigos, formerly captain of the Santa Maria, settled on the Zormite island when the ban on immigration was lifted. He made a modest living serving as the colony's ambassador in its early days, which was naturally given to him even though being a Human, because no zormites had adventured far off of the island, and this Zen Archigos had extensive knowledge of the waters and lands of the new world (having been a sea captain, and all).

The Regent Torkanansu elevated Zen Archigos's status from ambassador to Elder, having proven his loyalty with earlier service to the government, and needing a representative of the human population in his colonial government. After this point, there was 2 Elders, one Human and one Zormite. However, when the Elder representing the Zormite population fell ill and died, Torkanansu saw little reason to replace him, being a zormite himself, and not trusting many others to begin with.

A popular rebellion sparked later, as a result of Regent Torkanansu's continued distaste for becoming involved with the day-to-day dealings of government. The figurehead representing the Zormite motherland was dethroned. Zormites and Humans alike rallied together removing Torkanansu from power. The rebellion, of course, got out of hand, all realized that their actions constituted war against an established power of the old world, and the human populations started accusing zormites of being loyalists. The zormite's decision to lay down their xenophobic ways ultimately backfired, as the humans they accepted into their realm became xenophobic themselves, fearing that zormite citizens might attempt to send word to the homeland of what had taken place. So, a slaughtering of zormites took place in the absence of a governing authority. Within days of Torkanansu being thrown off of the island, genocide was taking place. The new human majority feared a retaliation by the Zormite homeland before getting a chance to organize a defensive force to counter it. As a result, a minority of those humans systematically wiped many of them out before the new governing authority was able to set up a militia and cease the practice.

Zen Archigos, took the title of emperor, and attempted to preserve the traditions and culture that the humans of the island had been assimilated into over the years. At first, his new government mirrored that of the style in which the Zormite hierarchy operated within. Humans found guilty of the genocide, where executed, and those found aiding in the practice were imprisoned. The remaining Zormite population was not allowed to leave the island for some time, largely forced into house arrest in most instances, until the threat of being easily reconquered dwindled.

Zen Archigos established his bloodline as a new line of nobility, and sought to maintain that his royal bloodline would continue to govern this new Zormite "kingdom". He continued to rule the island under a monarchial system until unrest grew to such a point that he willingly allowed for a constitution to be drawn up and withdrew his mandate to rule. The National Archist Party of Zormite (NAPZ) took the reigns from this point onward, and established itself as the only legal political party within the new republic. Zen Archigos managed to regain power due to popularity and the fact that the Archist party was a group of loyalist citizens, who sought to put the royal Archigos bloodline back in power, even without the former mandate that name once carried.

In Zen Archigos's early days as a sea captain aboard the Santa Maria, he dropped anchor in Dustari many times, having spent most of his sailing time in the region of ocean between the Zormite and Dustarian islands. It was later discovered that a lady he had a short romance with on the Dustarian island was a Sagesun, and had given birth to a daughter out of wedlock. The Archist Party jumped at this opportunity, and made arrangements to have this Wren Sagesun "Archigos" come to the Zormite island and become involved with its government, so that when Zen's time to step down came, the Archist party could form a more permanent union with their closest ally in the new world (Dustari) and at the same time keeping true to their loyalist principles.

I could have filled in more at the end but this is getting long and the primary objective was to link 2k1 and 2k2, not explain -everything-. Thats the official history that I will be sticking to.

[Zurkiba]

Nice story, doesn't explain the fact that they'd keep the Zormite name and how the people would be assimiliated into the culture after like 5-20 years or what ever. How come the Zormites aren't a mix of Samurai, Dustari, and Pirates?

How come the humans wouldn't have elfs as workers too?

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

Nice story, doesn't explain the fact that they'd keep the Zormite name and how the people would be assimiliated into the culture after like 5-20 years or what ever. How come the Zormites aren't a mix of Samurai, Dustari, and Pirates?

How come the humans wouldn't have elfs as workers too?

Not sure about what the official explination is, but there are lots of very good possible reasons.


For example, it is actually very common, that when people of lesser development (often illiterate, poor farming techniques, etc) are drawn into a rich and more educated culture, they very quickly adopt to many of those cultural elements - specifically the ones that increase their ability to live well.
It is quite plausable that in one generation (20 years is a modern generation, but in ancient times people had children certianly by 15) human children will have been taught to read and write zormite as their first language, and the zormite religions would often have appeal as it would be the religions of their great benefactors. Going from such a low level of society to a much better one would likely give the humans reason to take pride in being part of zormite, and even if many of the humans engaged in the bloodier parts of the revolution, the nation as a whole would not specifically just abandon the old name.
It wouldn't be the most affluent humans of the lands that would have colonized on Zormite afterall.
France was not renamed during the French Revolution, so why should Zormite?

Anyway Zurk, why not be constructive and find solutions instead of problems with things like this - it solves that whole thing that bothered you so much about the historical split.

[LordZen]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

Nice story, doesn't explain the fact that they'd keep the Zormite name and how the people would be assimiliated into the culture after like 5-20 years or what ever. How come the Zormites aren't a mix of Samurai, Dustari, and Pirates?

How come the humans wouldn't have elfs as workers too?

As written, it was the new emperor himself who took special care in preserving the traditions of the Zormite culture. So even if you do want to maintain that the humans did not accept the Zormite way of life after living that way of life exclusively for decades, then it could be argued that since the new ruler made special efforts to keep things more or less unchanged during the transition at first, the status quo was maintained and the populus was given just that much more time to "adopt" this way of life (which they had already grown acustomed to).

I beleive in the story, the Zormites lifted the ban on immigration of -humans-. Comeon, that was already a stretch considering their past, and humans were much more well known to zormites than some other smaller species which they woudl have had even less contact with. They decided to be less xenophobic..but they didnt let go of their preconvictions completely.

Besides, why would elves want to immigrate? There is not a big enough population of them to be scampering everywhere, either. If they even still exist on Forest.

Come to think of it, how do you explain the timeline of Forest? What happen to all of the elves during the reign of Astri? And how do you explain every single viking being wiped out and disappearing during the transition back to Forest?

Strange, it sounded like my story satisfied you before when I first told you it, because as you said then, its fine for Zormite to consist primarily of humans as long as there is still a few zormites around, because you objected to the idea of zormites completely disappearing, and wanted an explaination as to why the population diminished so badly.

Your complaint then was, there was never an explaination as to why humans took over.

[Nappa]

Originally Posted by LordZen

long story here

I don't understand. Zormites live hundreds of years AND have more babies then humans due to they lay eggs like fish. Why are they being outpaced by humans ?

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

Anyway Zurk, why not be constructive and find solutions instead of problems with things like this - it solves that whole thing that bothered you so much about the historical split.

READ MY DAMN POSTS DAMN IT. I've already given you an answer
Archigos Republic

---

Zen, you've changed your story since then.

I fail to understand why you want Zormite to be a human kingdom. 'Because people want to rp as a human'? Well they can join Samurai, Dustari, or Pirates.

A teacher once told me that the only constant of the universe is truth. Which is why I say that Padren is wrong. But Padren has failed to understand this.

The whole arguement isn't why aren't there Zormites on 2k2. Far from it. It's why are you calling people Zormites when they're not. 2k2 has taken one of the best organized and played traditions of Graal and taken a big stinking crap on it. Why's that?

What's so hard about just renaming it to the Archigos Republic? It fits the theme.

If the current Zormites are following the 'old' traditions then how come they're not following the traditions of the Zaeri? Not to mention, the Zormite Fascism has already denounced the previous history.

The elfs are plenty, before the kingdoms took their colonies the elf peoples owned the six islands.

As stated in previous roleplayings the Elfs were enslaved and/or jailed. Most were killed in the prisons. Samurai later attacked Astri and found a single jail with some elven within. They were set free while the Astrians died in a last stand and Erik killed himself.

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

READ MY DAMN POSTS DAMN IT. I've already given you an answer
Archigos Republic

You have given no historical reason why a nation known as the Zormite Republic would suddenly change their name to the Archigos Republic, it seems they've liked their name so far, why change now? That would be ignoring the truth of the name they have held for all of GK.

A teacher once told me that the only constant of the universe is truth. Which is why I say that you are wrong. But you have failed to understand this.
---

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

I fail to understand why you want Zormite to be a human kingdom. 'Because people want to rp as a human'? Well they can join Samurai, Dustari, or Pirates.

Who are you to tell people they can't be human in Zormite? Zormite has had humans for years - and thats the truth, which is the only constant of the universe.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

The whole arguement isn't why aren't there Zormites on 2k2. Far from it. It's why are you calling people Zormites when they're not. 2k2 has taken one of the best organized and played traditions of Graal and taken a big stinking crap on it. Why's that?

Meh, honestly the old zormite doesn't sound that interesting, I mean, come on, if you want to play with any of your friends or trade etc, you have to be ooc or kill their human butts. How can you have a xenophobic race in a game where all trade and resources are gathered in one giant middle island?

Of course, if they were that way on 2k2 from the beginning, I would be defending their right to be that way.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

What's so hard about just renaming it to the Archigos Republic? It fits the theme.

Not really, they are kinda proud of being zormites actually.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

If the current Zormites are following the 'old' traditions then how come they're not following the traditions of the Zaeri? Not to mention, the Zormite Fascism has already denounced the previous history.

We could bicker down the details to the point of explaining every little nuance in a satisfactory way, at which point you'll ask why so and so had oatmeal for breakfast when bacon and eggs were so common.

The real question is where do you get off being judge and jury? We are just humoring you afterall. My point is that every single question you are asking is about the details of evolution zormite culture, but not one of your questions actually challanging the plausability, which is your intention. You hope that no plausable explaination is possible, and somehow, boom, zormite will become fish people or change their name. Your line of questioning has ceased to challange the plausability though, so I think you are more or less filibustering at this point (based on your use of that word).

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

You have given no historical reason why a nation known as the Zormite Republic would suddenly change their name to the Archigos Republic, it seems they've liked their name so far, why change now? That would be ignoring the truth of the name they have held for all of GK.

I have too given you reason, they were built on misinformation and I were to write a book about RPing on 2k2 I wouldn't have Soldier selling newbs of (Dustari) screaming 'ne1 gotz a swerd be +6?'

Originally Posted by busyrobot

Who are you to tell people they can't be human in Zormite? Zormite has had humans for years - and thats the truth, which is the only constant of the universe.

That's your flaw, Zormites AREN'T HUMANS!
You failed to understand the quote -_-

Originally Posted by busyrobot

Meh, honestly the old zormite doesn't sound that interesting, I mean, come on, if you want to play with any of your friends or trade etc, you have to be ooc or kill their human butts. How can you have a xenophobic race in a game where all trade and resources are gathered in one giant middle island?

Yeah, because we know to make things more interesting we add a human nation which is almost exactly like Dustari only we change the rank names. So instead of kingdoms that are unique we have just one kind of kingdom. OH MY DEAR LORD THE FUN INSUES.

Outside relations were allowed when the circimstances allowed (eg: Dustari Conquest of Zormite, Zormite conquest of Samurai). But no Human would be allowed.

Originally Posted by busyrobot

Of course, if they were that way on 2k2 from the beginning, I would be defending their right to be that way.

According to Zen's storyline it was. And according to Zen it's the 'official story'

Originally Posted by busyrobot

Not really, they are kinda proud of being zormites actually.

Kind of like how people in Siberia can be proud of being Martian right? I would agree with you if they were Zormites. But they're not.

A tulip is NOT a rose no matter how long you look at it.

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

I have too given you reason, they were built on misinformation and I were to write a book about RPing on 2k2 I wouldn't have Soldier selling newbs of (Dustari) screaming 'ne1 gotz a swerd be +6?'

The history of 2k1 was well known at the start of 2k2, and the fact that an element of misinformation caused a discrepency a few years back is no reason to create new discrepencies with all the history since then.

And based on Zen's post, I would hardly say your misinformation comment is that well founded.

And good show about the book writing, however no one has asked you to write a book with that comment or any similar ones.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

That's your flaw, Zormites AREN'T HUMANS!
You failed to understand the quote -_-

That is your flaw, zormites have been human for all of GK's history.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

Yeah, because we know to make things more interesting we add a human nation which is almost exactly like Dustari only we change the rank names. So instead of kingdoms that are unique we have just one kind of kingdom. OH MY DEAR LORD THE FUN INSUES.

I have no interest in playing in a republic, but I do in a kingdom. Nor am I interested in samurai or pirating. I don't really want to be an elf. Some people do want to be elves, or pirates, or samurai, or even be in a republic, or in a monarchy. I am glad GK is so diverse, I hope no one ruins it.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

Outside relations were allowed when the circimstances allowed (eg: Dustari Conquest of Zormite, Zormite conquest of Samurai). But no Human would be allowed.

Conquerors and the defeated don't exactly have warm relationships as a general rule, that is why you failed to take over the world and samurai 'betrayed' you remember?

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

According to Zen's storyline it was. And according to Zen it's the 'official story'

By which I obviously meant, if the 2k1 zormite had humans and it had been changed to fish for 2k2 around the time of its inception, I would defend their right to be fish and fight your attempts to change it against their will.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

Kind of like how people in Siberia can be proud of being Martian right? I would agree with you if they were Zormites. But they're not.

They have been zormites for all of GK, why can't you accept the truth of that?

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

A tulip is NOT a rose no matter how long you look at it.

Exactly, and no matter how long you stare at GK, zormite will never be fish people.

[Zurkiba]

Padren, do you even read the posts?

According to your own words you are now supporting me. So thanks I guess.

But if you support me then why do you continue to hassle me?

Read posts from now on Padren and you MIGHT be able to argue.

You dont get the quotes, you put them in obsurb replies. If I said 'In the beginning God made the heavens and the earth' you would go, 'Exactly that's why everyone should get one dollar from the government'.

You're not using your mind, and you're keeping it closed.

And no, I'm not close-minded. If I'm closed-minded then I guess all of your teachers are too because they teach the basics and the truth. If I told you that 1+1=2 and you tried to convince me that 1+1=3 then I am not close-minded.

[LordZen]

Originally Posted by Nappa

I don't understand. Zormites live hundreds of years AND have more babies then humans due to they lay eggs like fish. Why are they being outpaced by humans ?

If this is the case, Nappa, then explain why the Zormite race stayed in the minority vs the human race throughout the entire history of 2k1? 10 eggs does not garauntee 10 children, either.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

Zen, you've changed your story since then.

And what, pray tell, have I changed since then which has caused your newfound dislike for that presented line of history?

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

That's your flaw, Zormites AREN'T HUMANS!
You failed to understand the quote -_-

He is obviously refering to Zormite as a nation, not an ethnicity. But aside from that, I do not understand, you have even said yourself that humans were in Zormite in 2k1.

It really sounds to me like you are the one changing your story. This Archigos Republic idea is completely new, and you told me yourself that it was fine to call it Zormite as long as the storyline supported even only a few zormite people to still have survived. Your whole issue, a couple weeks ago, was that the zormites just disappeared and a proper acceptable explaination was never presented. Your position was previously, a Human majority in 2k2 Zormite was O.K.

[Nappa]

Originally Posted by LordZen

If this is the case, Nappa, then explain why the Zormite race stayed in the minority vs the human race throughout the entire history of 2k1? 10 eggs does not garauntee 10 children, either.

Because their was no reason to multiply their race. More people would require more people to feed, more expenses, etc.. So the people purposely didn't mate that often.

Why praytell don't humans have a baby every year in real life ? The same reasons.

However in the need of more zormites to preserve their way of life, I'm sure they would mate.

And as for humans being in Zormite and 2k1, either you read wrong or someone lied to you. We have said that their were none.

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by LordZen

If this is the case, Nappa, then explain why the Zormite race stayed in the minority vs the human race throughout the entire history of 2k1? 10 eggs does not garauntee 10 children, either.

With each kingdom comes an invisible kingdom. It's similiar to how Dustari continues to grow yet there may only be three females in the kingdom.

Originally Posted by LordZen

And what, pray tell, have I changed since then which has caused your newfound dislike for that presented line of history?

I dont dislike it, It could work but there are still flaws in it.

Originally Posted by LordZen

He is obviously refering to Zormite as a nation, not an ethnicity. But aside from that, I do not understand, you have even said yourself that humans were in Zormite in 2k1.

That's a negative. No Humans have been in Zormite. The closest thing was a Dustarian Governor, who didn't even get actual power.

Originally Posted by LordZen

It really sounds to me like you are the one changing your story. This Archigos Republic idea is completely new, and you told me yourself that it was fine to call it Zormite as long as the storyline supported even only a few zormite people to still have survived. Your whole issue, a couple weeks ago, was that the zormites just disappeared and a proper acceptable explaination was never presented. Your position was previously, a Human majority in 2k2 Zormite was O.K.

Granted, a few Zormits would be fine. It would actually support your storyline. But right now you have a storyline in which a person could just easily say *kills all humans with uber magic*, it has flaws.

But the fact is why in the hell would they have a second Zormite nation when it isn't really Zormite?

Last question: Why are you so intent on wanting Zormites to be human?

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

Padren, do you even read the posts?

According to your own words you are now supporting me. So thanks I guess.

But if you support me then why do you continue to hassle me?

Read posts from now on Padren and you MIGHT be able to argue.

You dont get the quotes, you put them in obsurb replies. If I said 'In the beginning God made the heavens and the earth' you would go, 'Exactly that's why everyone should get one dollar from the government'.

You're not using your mind, and you're keeping it closed.

And no, I'm not close-minded. If I'm closed-minded then I guess all of your teachers are too because they teach the basics and the truth. If I told you that 1+1=2 and you tried to convince me that 1+1=3 then I am not close-minded.

You are really loosing it Zurk, meltdown much?

I have been very consistent. You feel that since you feel there is a discrepency between 2k1 and 2k2, all of 2k2's history should be scratched to hold true to the 'truth' that was 2k1. I argue, to do that, you have to ignore the 'truth' of all of 2k2's history, and that doing that would have a deleterious effect on GK today.
No one is trying to deny any truth, there are two debates: 1) is the 2k1/2k2 timeine broken - something as Zen says, appears unlikely.
2) if it is, is it better to fix the break by saying the past was different, or saying the present is different. If condition 1 is true - I still contend that if you are to break one of the two history lines, the old one that has little to do with current events is the best to break. In the case of condition 2, the only real 'truth' is that there is a fracture in the history lines, and covering up either side amounts to going against 'the truth' so why break the truth in a fashion that hurts GK the most?

I am being perfectly clear, you are just loosing it Zurk.

[LordZen]

Some humans do have babies every year, consecutively for a while. lol

But here, how about this, Nappa, because the new Zormite colony was primarily set up because it was viewed as a strategic nessesity, most of the original colonizers were trained soldiers, males. And the few females that came along did not much like the idea of whoring themselves. Wow, that was hard.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

I dont dislike it, It could work but there are still flaws in it.

You claimed I had made changes in the story which changed your opinion about it. I asked you what they were.