Extremist or offensive Guild names..

Milkdude99 · #1 05-11-2002, 06:29 AM

Someone posted this on the Npulse Boards , his name is on it , as well as what I replied to him.... If you have an opinion , post it....

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by FoamyBoa
If you wont let that person make a guild named Satanic, because you say it is offensive......then you are very ignorant bigoted people.
Satanism is a valid religion, they do NOT worship the devil as some of you more ignorant people may think.
They dont believe in God, or the Devil, they believe in total freedom(anarchy).
Anyone who says they do needs to be smashed in the face with an ironing board.
If you wont let someone use that name, or something close to it, then, im offended by guilds having the word Holy, and Heaven, and anything related to them in their name.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is an extremist group and not 'socially accepted "And as the Graal Rules states, the rules are for the majority and will not please everyone , and they will not try to as we won't.Graal is not a place for "political statements" as a guild of that name would be, so it is your right of course to have that view , it just will not be allowed on the Game, for this game is not a political arena for soapbox opinions , if that is what you wish , then I suggest you take it elsewhere, this Game is not a democracy but a game run by Graal and its rules , you follow them or you don't play; its that simple...

Mman · #2 05-11-2002, 07:01 AM

I think you are wrong.

I've played graal for quite a while now.
I've seen plenty of people use names like "demon" or "devil". Those are considered satanic, should those ppl have to change their names? No. Not a damn thing is said to them. As for "offending" people, if they are offended they can take a long walk off a short pier w/ weights on their backs.

Spark910 · #3 05-11-2002, 05:28 PM

Thats not offensive to me but some out there are offensive mostly on P/w's that dont have to sign up officialy as you can have what eva you want..

Milkdude99 · #4 05-12-2002, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mman
I think you are wrong.

I've played graal for quite a while now.
I've seen plenty of people use names like "demon" or "devil". Those are considered satanic, should those ppl have to change their names? No. Not a damn thing is said to them. As for "offending" people, if they are offended they can take a long walk off a short pier w/ weights on their backs.

Not talking about the names like Demon or Devil and they are free to use them , but the use of a Guild name that refers to a "cult" will not be that is the difference...
Like KKK is not allowed for obvious reasons..

Milkdude99 · #5 05-12-2002, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spark910
Thats not offensive to me but some out there are offensive mostly on P/w's that dont have to sign up officialy as you can have what eva you want..

WRONG all PW's have to follow the Graal rules and their own rules that are added MUST follow along thoses same guildlines...

LOA--Paul · #6 05-12-2002, 12:19 AM

satanic doesn't have to be a "cult" it CAN BE a religion, although i am not one, Im catholic, I see it's for the game, and if you take offense to it on this game you need to get a breath of real life.

You can't disallow it because of your religious beleifs. If it is something politically extremist OR hateful- say like "CANADIAN KILELRS" or "TALIBAN" or something of that order it should be not allowed/blacklsited.

Terazel Tenjin · #7 05-12-2002, 03:16 AM

Things like these are a moot issue to decide. I honestly don't know where we should draw the line. This is the kind of stuff that have courts running mad all the time. If you live in the U.S., I'm sure you've heard about the "atheist" license plate again. It was a pro-religion state, so that probably got taken down. Same with baseball team names on license plates that were apparently offensive to Native Americans (the guy intentionally DUG through DMV records to find something to be offended about, yeesh).

Say I was personally offended when I saw something with "God" on someone's license plate. Am I going to win a case? No. It's just as offensive to an atheist as a religious person seeing "There is no God" somewhere, so why won't I win? I have no found the answer yet. And money, what if I say I don't want U.S. money to have any mention of God because I don't want freaking divine intervention in MY money? Won't win because people argue it's tradition. Bull to me, but that's their plead.

In any case, should just crack down on biggotry like racism in guild tags, as well as other obviously offensive names such as names of murderous gangs/organizations. I suppose the list will get bigger as people come up with more stuff. Time will tell.

Milkdude99 · #8 05-12-2002, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LOA--Paul
satanic doesn't have to be a "cult" it CAN BE a religion, although i am not one, Im catholic, I see it's for the game, and if you take offense to it on this game you need to get a breath of real life.

You can't disallow it because of your religious beleifs. If it is something politically extremist OR hateful- say like "CANADIAN KILELRS" or "TALIBAN" or something of that order it should be not allowed/blacklsited.

Graal is no place to launch Religious Beliefs or try to make an issue of it on the Game , like I said before it is not the place for a poliical Statements of what one believes , you can believe what you want , just leave it off the Game , I would not allow "advertising of Devil worship " or converting someone to being a Jew or Chirstan on the Game , this is no place to make "political soapbox " controversey , just play the game and leave out the politics of your beliefs.

Mman · #9 05-12-2002, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Milkdude99
Not talking about the names like Demon or Devil and they are free to use them , but the use of a Guild name that refers to a "cult" will not be that is the difference...
Like KKK is not allowed for obvious reasons..

No, making a "KKK" guild is making a guild named after a racist group. Whether or not it was a cult means absolute zero.

Guilds named after cults is not illegal, guilds named after groups that did horrible things is.

Terazel Tenjin · #10 05-12-2002, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mman

No, making a "KKK" guild is making a guild named after a racist group. Whether or not it was a cult means absolute zero.

Guilds named after cults is not illegal, guilds named after groups that did horrible things is.

What if there was a guild called Crusaders? Would that be bad because of how many they have slaughtered in the past in the name of religion?

Milkdude99 · #11 05-12-2002, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Terazel Tenjin

What if there was a guild called Crusaders? Would that be bad because of how many they have slaughtered in the past in the name of religion?

There were many Crusaders not only the ones on the "Holy Wars" which as you pointed out was nothing more than an excuse to murder people who had a different belief from them, but all this ia a mute point and could go on forever , this is a Game with rules and you follow the rules as laid out by the Admins of the Game , no matter whether you agree or not; to play the Game you have to follow them.As I stated already , this is no place to make an issue or mute points of your beliefs, just play the game. Offensive or illegal Guild names will be up to the Admins to what is allowed or not , this is the way it is setup on the Game and what you agreed to when you signed up for an account , so to bicker with an Admin over a name for your Guild would get you nowhere and pointless. Just enjoy the Game as it is set up and don't try to nit pick it to death..

Mman · #12 05-12-2002, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Milkdude99
There were many Crusaders not only the ones on the "Holy Wars" which as you pointed out was nothing more than an excuse to murder people who had a different belief from them,

That's true, for a Christian, they may not seem that bad, but for a Muslim they may be as horrible as the Holocaust.

Milkdude99 · #13 05-13-2002, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mman

That's true, for a Christian, they may not seem that bad, but for a Muslim they may be as horrible as the Holocaust.

I agree....

supersaiyanja · #14 05-15-2002, 10:19 AM

SATANISM IS NOT A CULT
it IS a religion moon god, i dont care if you like it or not.
it should be allowed, if not, then i dont EVER want to see a guild with the name holy or heaven, or anything like that in their names

this is FoamyBoa incase you didnt know

moon god, you are the most opinionated person i have ever talked too, you wont allow anything just because you think its evil, or extremist. you didnt even bother finding anything out about satanists, you just said no, i dont like it, so it cant be here.

you also said that it doesnt matter because it is a minority, and you only care about pleasing the majority peoples.
why dont you just say "NO BLACK PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY ARE A MINORITY, AND SOME PEOPLE MIGHT BE OFFENDED BY THEM PLAYING"

dont try saying its different, because its not, and you know it.

Necronut · #15 05-15-2002, 12:21 PM

I agree with Foamy there Moongod.
Satanism is not a cult but a belief or religion as you would call it.
and by saying its a Minority and that you only care about majority opinions. then that makes you lower than low and makes you a bigot. as Foamy said its like saying Black people or Mexican people or Indians are Minorities then they are not allowed to play because of that. come on it is not the 1960's anymore it is the 21st Century and I think its about time you live in this century and start thinking about the present and the future not the Past.

and this is Frodo.
I am a Catholic but I do think every Religion has there own beliefs and after all alot of people that play the game are Americans and it is in the declaration of independance that there is a ammendmant called Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Speech.

Milkdude99 · #16 05-16-2002, 05:33 AM

I am by no means a bigot , it seems you ppl have missed the point entirely... but all this ia a mute point and could go on forever , this is a Game with rules and you follow the rules as laid out by the Admins of the Game , no matter whether you agree or not; to play the Game you have to follow them.As I stated already , this is no place to make an issue or mute points of your beliefs, just play the game. Offensive or illegal Guild names will be up to the Admins to what is allowed or not , this is the way it is setup on the Game and what you agreed to when you signed up for an account , so to bicker with an Admin over a name for your Guild would get you nowhere and pointless. Just enjoy the Game as it is set up and don't try to nit pick it to death..

It is also illegal to put "I am going to commit sucide! " Or I will rape you, or other nonsense like this and this comes from Stefan , the rules we enforce like I said are the Guide lines set by Graal not us. The point of the Game is to have FUN not make some stupid polital soapbox out of it . Graal setup the Game to please "the Majority " because it is impossible to please everyone, so to call me a bigot is also calling Graal a bigot because it is Graal that sets the rules. You know you guys can just nitpick this to death and try to make it impossible to run or play the Game , but what you still don't sem to realize is "this is the rules your agreed to when you signed up so why don't you guys just play it and quit the nonsense?

Milkdude99 · #17 05-16-2002, 05:37 AM

And if I am so narrow minded why would I post it here?Why would I even bother?

Mman · #18 05-16-2002, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by supersaiyanja
SATANISM IS NOT A CULT
it IS a religion moon god, i dont care if you like it or not.
it should be allowed, if not, then i dont EVER want to see a guild with the name holy or heaven, or anything like that in their names

this is FoamyBoa incase you didnt know

moon god, you are the most opinionated person i have ever talked too, you wont allow anything just because you think its evil, or extremist. you didnt even bother finding anything out about satanists, you just said no, i dont like it, so it cant be here.

you also said that it doesnt matter because it is a minority, and you only care about pleasing the majority peoples.
why dont you just say "NO BLACK PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY ARE A MINORITY, AND SOME PEOPLE MIGHT BE OFFENDED BY THEM PLAYING"

dont try saying its different, because its not, and you know it.

I agree, just because you are offended doesn't mean everyone will be. I'm sure there is a large majority that wouldn't give a ****.

Mman · #19 05-16-2002, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Milkdude99
I am by no means a bigot , it seems you ppl have missed the point entirely... but all this ia a mute point and could go on forever , this is a Game with rules and you follow the rules as laid out by the Admins of the Game , no matter whether you agree or not; to play the Game you have to follow them.As I stated already , this is no place to make an issue or mute points of your beliefs, just play the game. Offensive or illegal Guild names will be up to the Admins to what is allowed or not , this is the way it is setup on the Game and what you agreed to when you signed up for an account , so to bicker with an Admin over a name for your Guild would get you nowhere and pointless. Just enjoy the Game as it is set up and don't try to nit pick it to death..

It is also illegal to put "I am going to commit sucide! " Or I will rape you, or other nonsense like this and this comes from Stefan , the rules we enforce like I said are the Guide lines set by Graal not us. The point of the Game is to have FUN not make some stupid polital soapbox out of it . Graal setup the Game to please "the Majority " because it is impossible to please everyone, so to call me a bigot is also calling Graal a bigot because it is Graal that sets the rules. You know you guys can just nitpick this to death and try to make it impossible to run or play the Game , but what you still don't sem to realize is "this is the rules your agreed to when you signed up so why don't you guys just play it and quit the nonsense?

In that case, Graal is a bigot, and so is anyone who agrees w/ the rules

supersaiyanja · #20 05-16-2002, 08:44 AM

the only people ive talked to that have a problem with a guild using that name are you and moon goddess, which makes you the minority.
so therefor, you must allow this as the majority of players so far has no problem with it.

how can satanism be a minority when millions of people are members of that RELIGION?

moon god, i say you are opinionated because you outright attacked satanism calling it extremist, and a cult.

you never even bothered finiding anything out about it.

LOA--Paul · #21 05-16-2002, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Milkdude99
this Game is not a democracy but a game run by Graal and its rules , you follow them or you don't play; its that simple...

The rule against non offensive things? Everything on Graal is opffensiveto at leastone person or group. What about the guild JF, you need to go out on them too. What about the church in Graal City on classic, must it be removed just because someone found it offensive? This reminds me of the South Park Episode where evryone was offended by Christmas, and soon the children's play consisted of them twirling in black shirts saying "HAPPY, HAPPY, HAPPY, EVERYBODY HAPPY"

Necronut · #22 05-16-2002, 11:42 AM

I don't really think you are understanding what we are saying either MG. We are also trying to prove a point.
you may think its an extremist group or a cult but its NOT it is a recognized Religion. Maybe not the religion I like but it is a religion. and as I stated before and Im pretty sure everyone else that agrees with it. Are you gonna refuse a guild with the name Minority just cause its called Minority? No I don't think so. and don't say you would cause you know you would be lying.
I don't claim to be perfect or not a part of a Minorty even though Im most likely not. and I may Be catholic but I dont put anyone down for there religion. thats like me saying to a jewish person that practices the religion that they have the wrong religion. It may be just a game but some ppl try to make it fun by making varios different guilds with various different names. take the guild NOOBS for instance us oldbies on Npulse call ppl that use NPCs nOObs does that mean we are making fun of them no. and by calling them nOObs we are actually trying to point out to them that they shouldn't even use NPCs in a fight but thats off subject still the same they are considered a Minority though as the game goes. just something to make you think.

Milkdude99 · #23 05-17-2002, 05:44 AM

The point is , this is a Game NOT a arena for politcal or religious beliefs of any kind , I would no more allow a Satianist Guild anymore than I would allow a Holy God guild why? Because it has NO PLACE on the game for this , kids do not get on here to be "preached at " by someone on their beliefs nor to listen to any political opinions or views.. You guys fail to realize , Graal is in your home and others do NOT have the right to intrude on your privacy, no more than if they were on your doorstep trying to get in.... So Graal keeps everything "netural" in this respect and does not takes sides with any of it nor allow it to be on the Game because of that fact. It is not because I am for or against it because it is up to you what you believe in on Religion or politics and not appropriate in any form on the Game , this is how is must be to remain netural in these matters , in other words Off the Game..This Game is Fantasy Not reality so just keep the reality off the game... and just have fun for crying out loud sheesh

Milkdude99 · #24 05-17-2002, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by supersaiyanja
SATANISM IS NOT A CULT
it IS a religion moon god, i dont care if you like it or not.
it should be allowed, if not, then i dont EVER want to see a guild with the name holy or heaven, or anything like that in their names

this is FoamyBoa incase you didnt know

moon god, you are the most opinionated person i have ever talked too, you wont allow anything just because you think its evil, or extremist. you didnt even bother finding anything out about satanists, you just said no, i dont like it, so it cant be here.

you also said that it doesnt matter because it is a minority, and you only care about pleasing the majority peoples.
why dont you just say "NO BLACK PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY ARE A MINORITY, AND SOME PEOPLE MIGHT BE OFFENDED BY THEM PLAYING"

dont try saying its different, because its not, and you know it.

Foamy if you had bothered to look on the Npulse site you would know how absurd this statement is ..... My Granddaughter is half black and her pic is on a mouse over the pic of me... Her or anyone else's color to me makes no differance to me at all.....

AlkarenHyralt · #25 05-17-2002, 06:07 AM

What may not be offensive to you may be offensive to someone else.

BEsides it's the Guild Admin's decesion.

Mman · #26 05-17-2002, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlkarenHyralt
What may not be offensive to you may be offensive to someone else.

BEsides it's the Guild Admin's decesion.

Not many people would be, as shown in this quote

Quote:

the only people ive talked to that have a problem with a guild using that name are you and moon goddess, which makes you the minority.
so therefor, you must allow this as the majority of players so far has no problem with it.

Evidently most players don't really care. Anyone who is not mature enough to see a (satanic) tag and not be offended by it is not mature enough to play Graal. Offending people is no excuse to prohibit guilds from having certain names. I believe censorship as a whole is stupid, I can't believe people go to such extremes to avoid "offending" people.

Necronut · #27 05-17-2002, 12:29 PM

MG you need to open your eyes. The Majorty of the players of the game are ok with the damn guild's name and I have seen 2 ppl that has anything wrong with it and that is you and your wife.
you say you care about the Majority of the players but in actuallity you are puttiong out a double standard by not going with the majority and going with the minority opinions. just let the guild become official. after all if ppl can't be mature enough to understand that its just a game then why the hell are they playing the game?

Necronut · #28 05-18-2002, 12:34 AM

the following post is actually from supersaiyanja(FoamyBoa) since he can't post here for some reason.
Moon God, you need to read my posts a little better.
I did not say you are racist, I said you are opinionated (not the same thing).
What I said about not letting black people play was an example of what you are doing.

Not letting black people play is the same as not letting a name like satanic be an official guild name.

The only reason you wont let this be official, is because YOU don't like it.

The rules for Graal 2001 say no OFFENSIVE names. from everyone else's
reactions to all of this, id say the only person getting offended is you.

You don't know a damn thing about Satanists...

For you too say it is a cult, or it is extremist, is just you showing how much of a bigot you are.

Stop saying that Graal is no place for this kind of argument.
because as long as things like this continue too happen, it will be.

FoamyBoa

Mman · #29 05-18-2002, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Necronut
Not letting black people play is the same as not letting a name like satanic be an official guild name.

No, it is the same thing as not letting a guild called Blacks be official. This is just as low however, and I still consider him a bigot from all this, him and everyone else who makes the rules on Graal. He was wrong and he should know it by now.

Milkdude99 · #30 05-18-2002, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mman

No, it is the same thing as not letting a guild called Blacks be official. This is just as low however, and I still consider him a bigot from all this, him and everyone else who makes the rules on Graal. He was wrong and he should know it by now.

Define "bigot"

Necronut · #31 05-18-2002, 01:25 PM

Definition of Bigot
big·ot
n.
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

and that is exactly what you are MG.
So I think you should rethink your decision about the guild cause you are committing bigotry by refusing it just because of its name cause it is a Religion.

Necronut · #32 05-18-2002, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Milkdude99

Define "bigot"

this is from FoamyBoa again
my definition of a bigot, is someone who judges something with out having any knowledge about whatever it is he is judging

which is what you did moongod
you ASSUMED it was evil, without any knowledge of the religion at all.
to me, that makes you a bigot.

you are a very ignorant person moongod.

the real definition is

One who is intolerant of those who differ. (and it has become painfully obvious that you are)

Terazel Tenjin · #33 05-18-2002, 01:38 PM

Eh, surprised this is still going on. I'll just quickly jump in and say this.

As with any public services, the ones in charge usually aim to keep the "public morals" as a primary issue, while respecting the opinions of the minority views. Public morals is basically the majority belief (ie. don't go around killing people, don't kick puppies, don't jump old people in wheelchairs, et cetera), so that will always be upheld, obviously. Minority views aren't going to win (ie. human sacrafices are a-okay), but their beliefs will be noted. Since the point is to please as many possible, majority rules.

Mman · #34 05-18-2002, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Terazel Tenjin
Eh, surprised this is still going on. I'll just quickly jump in and say this.

As with any public services, the ones in charge usually aim to keep the "public morals" as a primary issue, while respecting the opinions of the minority views. Public morals is basically the majority belief (ie. don't go around killing people, don't kick puppies, don't jump old people in wheelchairs, et cetera), so that will always be upheld, obviously. Minority views aren't going to win (ie. human sacrafices are a-okay), but their beliefs will be noted. Since the point is to please as many possible, majority rules.

The majority is not offended, therefore the guild should get tags.

Milkdude99 · #35 05-19-2002, 02:15 AM

I will get in touch with Stefan and get him post on this subject... and maybe it will put this nonsense to rest ....

albus777 · #36 05-19-2002, 02:16 AM

Why are you guys only complaining abuot SS when there are guilds like Blitzkreig and Ak47?

Milkdude99 · #37 05-19-2002, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Necronut
Definition of Bigot
big·ot
n.
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

and that is exactly what you are MG.
So I think you should rethink your decision about the guild cause you are committing bigotry by refusing it just because of its name cause it is a Religion.

Since I do not belong to any religion or group , I cannot be partial to one , I just go by the guidlines set by Graal in all that we do on Npulse , if you have a problem with a Server that follows rules, I suggest you go to one of the PW's that don't ...

Milkdude99 · #38 05-19-2002, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by albus777
Why are you guys only complaining abuot SS when there are guilds like Blitzkreig and Ak47?

AK47 is a gun... and not even a Guild on Npulse , its like naming a guild after an object , like a Football and would be allowed ... so whats the point?

albus777 · #39 05-19-2002, 02:26 AM

Oh but this gun was used to kill so many people!!!!!!!

And what about Blitzkreig?!?!

LOA--Paul · #40 05-19-2002, 03:16 AM

MG Having a Satanic tag is not "preaching" at anybody. That's like saying someone wearing a shirt that says I love jesus or something is preaching, no, they are expressing THEIR oppinion, and you cannot stop them jsut because you don't beleive the same as them, are they forcing YOU to do it? no.

Also you say you don't want any names with Holy or God in them.. very hypocritical (sp?), look at YOUR name! People can be VERY offended if they don't beleive there is a god for the moon, or theycan be even MORE offended if they DO have one and they beleive you are disrespecting it

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