why kill v5

[kia345]

My favorite part about Tim's posts is that they only seem like applicable responses when they're in the form of tired memes

[Tim_Rocks]

Originally Posted by kia345

My favorite part about Tim's posts is that they only seem like applicable responses when they're in the form of tired memes

[kia345]

That's subjectively better.

[Tim_Rocks]

Originally Posted by kia345

That's subjectively better.

<3

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Scoper

But you probably also wouldn't like thousands of trial hackers running around messing up your gameplay.

The only hacks that ruin our gameplay on Zod apparently still work on v6.

Originally Posted by Scoper

Furthermore, new updates (generally?) meant newer/more scripting options, which means the developers can do more stuff. For you.

Right, because v5 was totally pushed to its limit.

Originally Posted by Scoper

What's more important, a good game, or a good shell around it?

A good game, obviously.

[ilovegirlzz]

so basically...the admins like the updates because it reduces the amount of work they have to do. and the players dislike the updates because it doesnt do anything. v4 FTW..

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by ilovegirlzz

so basically...the admins like the updates because it reduces the amount of work they have to do. and the players dislike the updates because it doesnt do anything. v4 FTW..

No.

[WillaWonka]

Originally Posted by ilovegirlzz

so basically...the admins like the updates because it reduces the amount of work they have to do. and the players dislike the updates because it doesnt do anything. v4 FTW..

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

No.

In terms of the staff getting something done, turns out less work for the admins because they already did it.... usually what happens yes. You are trying to make it sound like a bad thing, no? I personally love the updates, especially v6, as soon as it came out, graal finally started to do more then 5fps for me and i was able to pwn noobs liek dis kid.

[shrimps]

Originally Posted by Tim_Rocks

You sound like a man/women? who needs a time machine.

Don't know about you guys, but I saw this and thought "I would love a time machine".

[Supaman771]

Originally Posted by shrimps

"I would love a time machine".

I'd go back like 10 years and hook up w/ Avril Lavigne when she was still hawtaf.

Either that or get 1985 Micheal J. Fox and film our adventures for lulz.

What was the topic again?

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by WillaWonka

In terms of the staff getting something done, turns out less work for the admins because they already did it.... usually what happens yes. You are trying to make it sound like a bad thing, no?

Because he makes it out as though v6 makes it so staff can be lazy and everything is easier... and it's not even remotely close to that. It simply gives devs the ability to do more.

[Cow2001]

Originally Posted by Scoper

Visually and aesthetically, perhaps you're right. But you probably also wouldn't like thousands of trial hackers running around messing up your gameplay.

'hackers' were never that big of an issue, even before p2p.
i never minded them much really. they never really ruined the game for other players, and it was sometimes fun to see some guy come on and do some cool effects

Originally Posted by Scoper

Furthermore, new updates (generally?) meant newer/more scripting options, which means the developers can do more stuff. For you.

only potentially. look at graal some years ago and look at it now, can you really say we have more quality content in total than before (with 'inferior' scripting.

Originally Posted by Scoper

What's more important, a good game, or a good shell around it?

the game, but the shell is still very important

Originally Posted by Scoper

Finally..while I agree that for a non-staff player, development is a background thing, don't think for a second it doesn't directly affect you. To think so would be incredibly dumb

it may potentially affect the players, but not necessarily to a large enough extent to be more important than how the client feels. but anyway as i said i don't think regular players should concern themselves with it.

[Scoper]

Because of hacks and exploits, Era has been shut down multiple times over the past year..some of those times were for close-to 24 hour periods. You like your friendly little hackers? Screw off, they're not all nice. There's a difference between 'cool effects' and blatant server destruction

I can say we have the ability for a lot higher quality content, sure. The content itself comes from the developers who use it. You think older servers were better? Blame better staff, or your own bias.

You're right. The shell is important. But not as important as the game itself.
So, since the game carries a greater value than the shell around it, updates that increase the value of the overall game content but decrease (and again, this decrease is only YOUR opinion, so from an objective point it's hard to even argue it's there) how pretty the shell around it is should be totally acceptable.

Since you haven't really stopped being you, it's pretty obvious you're not going to believe that you're wrong here. As such..there's no point in arguing this. This thread should be in general discussion or something anyway

[kia345]

Originally Posted by Scoper

Since you haven't really stopped being you, it's pretty obvious you're not going to believe that you're wrong here. As such..there's no point in arguing this. This thread should be in general discussion or something anyway

I especially like the part where you ignore all of everyone's valid points, while claiming they're wrong for ignoring your own less valid points.


Cow presents an important perspective, and you vastly blow Graal's issue with hackers out of proportion. Your opinion is built out of some light involvement with a server that's broken itself more often than hackers have, and somehow you're using that minor involvement to constitute an air matter-of-factness that you truthfully shouldn't have.

Graal has seen numerous successful servers in the past, without the updates later versions of the client have brought. Arguably, the changes that came with Graal are even in some cases responsible for killing them off (Delteria being one example).

Delteria also makes a nice example of how irrelevant your hacker argument is, but I'll leave that one alone.

To be blunt, and play on your dumb shell vs. game stance; the "shell" has sharply fallen with later releases, while the "game" (read: background processes) has only slightly risen - and quite slowly, given v6's long wait. That's hardly a worthwhile trade off.

[Minoc]

Originally Posted by Tim_Rocks

Uh, would you still rather be using GS1??

I would.
While GS2 has its advantages, its introduction has had some significantly negative results.
GS2 scripts can't be used in offline editors. This pretty much killed the prospect of player-created content (as opposed to LAT-created), which in my opinion contibuted a lot to the spirit of the game.

Also, forcing completed servers to convert all of their scripts first to support an NPC Server and then to GScript2 unfortunately had a few casualties.

[Crow]

Originally Posted by kia345

the "shell" has sharply fallen with later releases, while the "game" (read: background processes) has only slightly risen - and quite slowly, given v6's long wait. That's hardly a worthwhile trade off.

That's something I can agree with.

[bloodykiller]

stop criticising v6. the 1st v6 beta sucked obviously but now it has way more functionalities than v5 and the glitches have been fixed..not to talk about the massive difference in fps lag
name 1 relevant advantage that v5 has over v6? don't post though if your computer is 5 years old or something retarded like that

[Crow]

Originally Posted by bloodykiller

stop criticising v6. the 1st v6 beta sucked obviously but now it has way more functionalities than v5 and the glitches have been fixed..not to talk about the massive difference in fps lag
name 1 relevant advantage that v5 has over v6? don't post though if your computer is 5 years old or something retarded like that

I assume your computer is at least as old as well, since I have no performance issues with either v5 or v6 on my very low end laptop. The image of Graal in general and the client has degraded over the years, that's a fact. It's not only about performance and features, you know?

[bloodykiller]

my computer is 2 years old and i'm gonna change it soon. i only encountered fps problems on v5 when i had chrome open and was playing ulms, gang events or at unstick. but i see loads of players having fps issues (on v5) even with only a dozen players on the same level
any computer with 4gb ram will give you issues on v5 if you're using your browser at the same time you're using graal. on v6 if u want to get fps lag you really need to try hard

[Crow]

Originally Posted by bloodykiller

any computer with 4gb ram will give you issues on v5 if you're using your browser at the same time you're using graal.

I only recently upgraded to 8 GB of memory and had 4 GB before that, and was happily running Graal v5, Opera, another popular MMO with more than 10 million subscriptions, Photoshop, a music player and some other crap without any performance issues. Maybe you should face the fact that your hardware might just suck. Especially if you make it dependant on RAM alone, of which Graal doesn't even use a whole lot.

[ilovegirlzz]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Because he makes it out as though v6 makes it so staff can be lazy and everything is easier... and it's not even remotely close to that. It simply gives devs the ability to do more.

youre right im not even remotely close..the staff were already lazy to begin with you can tell that this game was made with minimum effort..sure they added more ways to make money and update the gmap but the gameplay is still horrible pretty horrible, the server changes every other week so no ones ping is consistent. And it doesnt help that era is so anti v5.."you can only play this event if you have v6" what type of discrimination is that. my ancestors fought hard so i can use the internet and play this game that was made on paint

Even with all of that it's no point because stefan is just going to force everyone to update and delete v5..then when v7 comes well be complaining again. the vicious cycle i tell you

[Crow]

Originally Posted by ilovegirlzz

Even with all of that it's no point because stefan is just going to force everyone to update and delete v5..then when v7 comes well be complaining again. the vicious cycle i tell you

Your vicious cycle, that is. You belong to the type of players we developers hate from the bottom of our heart, the type that complains about whatever you do, be it good or bad. If it's change, it's automatically bad; just like when I released the small spar with the added automatic queue on Era back then.

[CaptainSkittles]

Originally Posted by ilovegirlzz

youre right im not even remotely close..the staff were already lazy to begin with you can tell that this game was made with minimum effort..

Are you referring to the entire roster of staff across the history of Era, or are you just talking about the current team? Era, like any playerworld, has been a collaborative effort spanning many staff teams. Be more specific in your criticism if you're going to make such a strong generalization.

Originally Posted by ilovegirlzz

sure they added more ways to make money and update the gmap but the gameplay is still horrible pretty horrible

The core gameplay of Era hasn't changed since its inception. If you don't like it now, you wouldn't like it then. And the question is, what are you doing complaining and playing a game in which you think the entire gameplay is horrible? Are you a masochist? There's actually quite a bit more to do than there was in the past. The economy is actually leveled out thanks to the pawn shop system. Gun stats are a bit out of control, but they've been that way for years. Wil's changes were starting to counter that, but we've again regressed. So what's your point? What specifically makes the gameplay bad?

Originally Posted by ilovegirlzz

the server changes every other week so no ones ping is consistent.

Perhaps that's an overstatement? Cite sources or refrain from making these bold claims.

Alright, let's recap:

• Avoid generalizations, get specific in your critiques
• Cite sources to back up your argument if you're going to argue factual "evidence".
• Clean up your grammar.
• If you're going to complain, please be specific or shut the **** up. (Getting a theme here?)

ilovegirlzz, this was pretty bad, even by standards of a rough draft. Perhaps written communication just isn't your thing. It's okay, you can always fashion your own language of grunts and gesticulation instead. Bloodykiller would love some company.

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Crow

I only recently upgraded to 8 GB of memory and had 4 GB before that, and was happily running Graal v5, Opera, another popular MMO with more than 10 million subscriptions, Photoshop, a music player and some other crap without any performance issues. Maybe you should face the fact that your hardware might just suck. Especially if you make it dependant on RAM alone, of which Graal doesn't even use a whole lot.

bloodykiller obviously has no idea what he's talking about, but some people do have weird issues that I can only blame on compatibility. I've known players who were able to run v5 flawlessly while v6 was hopelessly slow using both DirectX and OpenGL on modern hardware.

Originally Posted by ilovegirlzz

you can tell that this game was made with minimum effort..

Of course the game was made with minimum effort. None of the staff on Era are getting paid. It's only logical to try to maximize the benefit:time ratio when you're contributing in your spare time.

"you can only play this event if you have v6" what type of discrimination is that.

It's not discrimination. Try running the latest version of any popular program on Windows 95 and see how far you get. It takes more time and effort to support v5 users because you have to test everything twice and possibly spend lots of time working around flaws in v5. In some cases it's not even possible for a developer to use v5 because it's not supported on their platform anymore. When 95% of the playerbase is using v6, there's generally no point wasting significant amounts of time on the 5% who isn't.

Originally Posted by Crow

Your vicious cycle, that is. You belong to the type of players we developers hate from the bottom of our heart, the type that complains about whatever you do, be it good or bad. If it's change, it's automatically bad; just like when I released the small spar with the added automatic queue on Era back then.

+1, 100% agreement here.

[ilovegirlzz]

lol like im going to read all of that. im going to leave you guys with a little advice. Defeating a sandwich makes it tastier

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by ilovegirlzz

lol like im going to read all of that. im going to leave you guys with a little advice. Defeating a sandwich makes it tastier

Ah, great. You're shaping up to be one of those people on the forums absolutely everyone ****ing ignores.

[Crow]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Ah, great. You're shaping up to be one of those people on the forums absolutely everyone ****ing ignores.

Well, at least vBulletin does have an ignore feature.

[WillaWonka]

You can't have a argument then ignore everyone, we should strip you of your argument tag and throw you in the dungeons!

[Tim_Rocks]

Originally Posted by ilovegirlzz

lol like im going to read all of that. im going to leave you guys with a little advice. Defeating a sandwich makes it tastier

Even if you're in the wrong, keep arguing, it's more fun, trust me.

[bloodykiller]

Originally Posted by bloodykiller

my computer is 2 years old and i'm gonna change it soon. i only encountered fps problems on v5 when i had chrome open and was playing ulms, gang events or at unstick. but i see loads of players having fps issues (on v5) even with only a dozen players on the same level
any computer with 4gb ram will give you issues on v5 if you're using your browser at the same time you're using graal. on v6 if u want to get fps lag you really need to try hard

ur right i'm no computer geek, but what i'm tryna say is that my computer was medium-top tier when i bought it (september 2010) and AS OF NOW with v5 i'd get a shitload of fps lag. also many other players would have fps lag and now only few do
unluckily enough, my laptop broke down so i'm stuck on a computer which is like 5 years old, used as **** and not even portable lol, and i manage to get fps lag on v6 (in ulms/high action levels+random fps lag spikes which **** up my fire rate since i mostly use semi-auto guns)..running v5 on this computer barely allows me to move at unstick. so my theory is once again confirmed, and as a general theory it might not apply to that 1% which has weird compatibility issues.

[WillaWonka]

My computer is 5 years old and i dont get fps lag that much :/

mac mini ftw..

jk im getting a real game computer the end of this month finally.. arma ftw.

[Cow2001]

Originally Posted by WillaWonka

My computer is 5 years old and i dont get fps lag that much :/

mac mini ftw..

jk im getting a real game computer the end of this month finally.. arma ftw.

of course it should run on a 5 years old computer
graal used to run on computers from 1998 (and probably older)
and the graphics are about the same

[amf101]

Sometimes when I raid in vortex my fps freezes when I run through one of the levels in the gmap, pretty weird.

[Cow2001]

is it only in v6 or v5 too?

[WillaWonka]

Originally Posted by Cow2001

is it only in v6 or v5 too?

Why's rogue on your computer.

[amf101]

It's one of Rogue's offspring! :O

[Supaman771]

Originally Posted by amf101

It's one of Rogue's offspring! :O

We takin' Ovaaaaa!

[Tim_Rocks]

Guy's leave Rogue alone, she just got fixed and isn't feeling well.

[Cow2001]

Originally Posted by WillaWonka

Why's rogue on your computer.

???

[scriptless]

Well, if they don't force everyone to use new updates. They have to script things for 2 clients, or more.. and this can cause problems since some things are only possible now using V6.. so it's very problematic when people begin to complain things wont work in V5 that v5 is not even compatable with.. =/

Whats so wrong with V6 other then the lack of UDP, im rather curious how v5 is considered better to you guys.