I'm very disapointed

TheJames · #1 03-19-2010, 06:16 PM

I'm let down about the fact that there is no support for graal anymore. It seems to me Stefan and Unixmad have stopped giving us PC players updates. I feel that they are in it for the money now. Everything that they are doing anymore, is aiming to attract new short-term players. I have not seen a PC update in over 6 months now. Not to mention the fact that the global team can not even be reached. The support for consistent players is unconsistent. There is no support center, and you cant reach a global unless you email them. There is no site/information to email these people unless you already have their email. To me, Stefan and Unixmad have given up on updates for us pc players and whatnot. They may say they are working on things, but I have yet to see anything.

Everything they are doing is for money. I understand its a business but they need to incorporate us. Its extremely hard to get a server to the classic list aswell. How do they expect new players to come when we havn't seen a new classic server in over 2 years. Us old timers are getting sick of this. Graal used to be exciting but its the same old thing nowadays. iPhone has an average of 536 players usually, to us.. that seems like a "success" but with over 2 million i-phone users, I dont see that "success". I like their efforts though to attract new players, but it doesn't seem to be helping us. Even if an i-phone user was to download the game client, primarily they would have 4 options on servers to play. GK, UN, Era, and Zodiac. On witch all the items are extremely hard to obtain, and isnt noob-friendly. Only UN and Zodiac have a noob-friendly base it seems. We need change to our playerworlds, we need new servers to be able to make classic a little easier, and we need new globals. Stefan and Unixmad need to have concern for us players that have been with them through thick and thin and all these years, or he's going to loose our support, like alot of other players already. Stuff needs change, and it needs to happen, not just talk about it.

I could rant on this for a while, but I figure i'll keep it short and simple and just comment off peoples posts.

KrimsonSky · #2 03-19-2010, 06:39 PM

I 80% Agree

salesman · #3 03-19-2010, 06:47 PM

The only thing I really agree with is that it's bull**** how the support center has been down for so long. You can't charge ridiculous prices and then deny customer service. AT LEAST put contact information on the website and maybe even the login screen

.

As for everything else, I'd say wait for v6...Stefan is only one man. He has also hinted at some changes to subscriptions and what not with it's release.

TheJames · #4 03-19-2010, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by salesman

The only thing I really agree with is that it's bull**** how the support center has been down for so long. You can't charge ridiculous prices and then deny customer service. AT LEAST put contact information on the website and maybe even the login screen

.

As for everything else, I'd say wait for v6...Stefan is only one man. He has also hinted at some changes to subscriptions and what not with it's release.

Very true. I liked the support center, but it still took months sometimes to answer. I don't even know how to apply for hosted =/

Liberated · #5 03-19-2010, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheJames

I don't even know how to apply for hosted =/

Contact the PWA i'd say, probably Bell.

Elk · #6 03-19-2010, 07:50 PM

[sarcasm]use the support center[/sarcasm]

1% Agreed.

its in our hands what we do with graal now

...

fowlplay4 · #7 03-19-2010, 08:12 PM

The support center thing is definitely a problem considering many of us still know the link as http://support.graalonline.com (apparent in signatures) The least they could do is have that redirect to the global contacts thread with a small explanation. This was previously suggested and discussed in: http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...hp?t=134258138

Side note: Obtaining a decent end-game set of gear on Zodiac isn't that hard at all (even on a trial) and can be done in a realistic amount of time unlike on GK (Lack of Content, and the USD problem with equipment on there still exist).

Edit: Actually read the post, New Globals wat? Also Graal is just one of Eurocenters products now I'd say and Stefan seems to have a few other products.

LordSquirt · #8 03-19-2010, 08:24 PM

Same thing with Era.

The only thing you need is a gun, but you don't even need a good gun. If a players good he can beat anyone not matter what gun they are using. I wouldn't consider myself a bad sparrer, but someone like Wil can beat me with handguns.

cbk1994 · #9 03-19-2010, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by salesman

The only thing I really agree with is that it's bull**** how the support center has been down for so long. You can't charge ridiculous prices and then deny customer service. AT LEAST put contact information on the website and maybe even the login screen

.

I'm not sure if they're even looking for a support center anymore. Tig has proposed several to Stefan and they were all turned down. My guess is Stefan/unix's security paranoia is preventing it (the last support center was coded by a team of monkeys; the passwords were "encrypted" by base 64 encoding them which is why anti-Graal has them now). I've also offered Era's support center to at least one of the PWA, who expressed interest in using it, but that was most likely shot down by Stefan as well, if it was even proposed.

KrimsonSky · #10 03-19-2010, 08:39 PM

R.I.P Support Center <3

LordSquirt · #11 03-19-2010, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrimsonSky

News to Squirt, Wil's stats are rigged [or was].. I think everyone and there mother knows that

What do you mean by stats?

KrimsonSky · #12 03-19-2010, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordSquirt

What do you mean by stats?

offtopic :P i'll tell you in a pm

Spark910 · #13 03-19-2010, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbk1994

the last support center was coded by a team of monkeys

lol! It was my suggestion to use it, although I know nothing of security. At least it lasted long enough to be of use for the time it was online and not abused.

TheJames · #14 03-20-2010, 03:22 AM

Well does anyone notice that there isnt much new stuff/support for us oldbies? We still have the same ol stuff.. we need to protest this..we need updates/support/new servers.. what shall we do?

Stephen · #15 03-20-2010, 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheJames

We still have the same ol stuff.. we need to protest this..we need updates/support/new servers.. what shall we do?

Develop. You're just as capable as anyone else.

Sure, Graal is a product and we're purchasing it... but get real - it's always been this way and isn't going to change soon. Bitching and moaning doesn't produce anything.

TheJames · #16 03-20-2010, 03:47 AM

This is true Stephen. Not to just as capable, I actually do develop, you know that. Its hard to make a server all by yourself though. Its rough enough finding developers nowadays.

Stephen · #17 03-20-2010, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheJames

This is true Stephen. Not to just as capable, I actually do develop, you know that. Its hard to make a server all by yourself though. Its rough enough finding developers nowadays.

The development community is diluted.

Hiro · #18 03-20-2010, 05:21 AM

make them give me a copy of armageddon so i can finish it and release it to classic already, seriously ):

Tigairius · #19 03-20-2010, 05:57 AM

I really do wish we still had a support center. It is very difficult to keep our support responses organized and such when we're all replying to separate emails, etc.

Demisis_P2P · #20 03-20-2010, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigairius

I really do wish we still had a support center. It is very difficult to keep our support responses organized and such when we're all replying to separate emails, etc.

Google Wave would be perfect for this, if only it were public.

Demisis_P2P · #21 03-20-2010, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen

The development community is diluted.

That's like buying a smaller pool every time some water evaporates, instead of just refilling the pool.

Limiting projects isn't going to solve the problem. And with such a small pool of projects (5) and no possibility to start their own new project, there is a very real possibility that developers might just be put off.

papajchris · #22 03-20-2010, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigairius

I really do wish we still had a support center. It is very difficult to keep our support responses organized and such when we're all replying to separate emails, etc.

Why not just set up an email address for example such as gmail and then just create different folders for each division. Then when emails pop up in the inbox, if you open one and see it's for say account issues, put it in w/e folder and mark it as unread. Then whoever's job it is can read it. When responding to emails you'd just have to put a signature so people know who is responding. Much more difficult than a support center, but better than nothing at all.

Imperialistic · #23 03-20-2010, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordSquirt

Same thing with Era.

The only thing you need is a gun, but you don't even need a good gun. If a players good he can beat anyone not matter what gun they are using. I wouldn't consider myself a bad sparrer, but someone like Wil can beat me with handguns.

after 3 weeks of poking trash with a stick, and 4 days of digging shells.. VOILA you now have enough to buy the cheapest gun.

TSAdmin · #24 03-20-2010, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imperialistic

after 3 weeks of poking trash with a stick, and 4 days of digging shells.. VOILA you now have enough to buy the cheapest gun.

If it takes you 3 weeks and 4 days to get $200, ur doin it rong!

Dnegel · #25 03-20-2010, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSAdmin

If it takes you 3 weeks and 4 days to get $200, ur doin it rong!

Yeah, lol.

I used like one whole shovel too get like 150-250 $ in 10 minutes (shovel did break).

MrName · #26 03-20-2010, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dnegel

Yeah, lol.

I used like one whole shovel too get like 150-250 $ in 10 minutes (shovel did break).

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheJames

I don't even know how to apply for hosted =/

There is a whole list with rules to get Hosted / Classic in the Playerworlds Main Forum, All you have to do is make sure you follow these rules, make sure you have everything done and send a Forum PM to one of the PWA’s.
http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...91#post1468891

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imperialistic

after 3 weeks of poking trash with a stick, and 4 days of digging shells.. VOILA you now have enough to buy the cheapest gun.

Like TSA & Dnegel said, If you take a month getting like $200 you are doing something weird, Since it takes like 5 to 10 Minutes shoveling to get $500 I think.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Why i think that Graal is going dead..

The new trial system, This really sucks and this needs to be changed back to the old system. The time i started playing we had this old system, When you logged off you lost everything. This made me play Graal much as possible, i kept walking to my PC while dinner to move my character a little bit so i wouldn't log off. I kept trying to get better and better, Finally i got mad of it and it made me buy gold.
If i started again right now, I wouldn't even consider paying for Graal. Why should i? I can just play as a trial, Why do i have to buy gold? For those few extra things? I wouldn't do it for that.
Another problem which this new system gives, When you lose your gold you just get to keep all your items and when you buy gold you still have them. So you don’t even have to keep playing. When you lose your items when your gold runs out, you have to keep playing and paying. And since you don’t want to lose your items you will keep paying.

That was the Trial system, Now let’s get to the Playerworlds.

The player-owned playerworlds also don’t make it better. There are very much good developers on Graal, The problem is.. The good/pro developers don’t want to work on those small playerworlds, This way the playerworlds have to do it with bad/normal developers which makes if very hard to create a awesome new world. At the same time, I have been looking around to get some pro graphic artists on Noctorious. This was really hard, since the most are busy on the Classic/Gold servers or I had answers as ‘Sorry I don’t have time, I have to work for Stefan’.
If we had less playerowned server, But if we would have good developers there too we would have more new good servers.

But the playerowned servers are not the only problem, Have Zone as example. I personally think Zone is a very awesome server, When I started playing graal I only played Zone. And I kept playing Zone, Why? Because you always had fun there, there were players, events and lots of fun things. There was always something to do. But then Zone made some mistakes and the server went down, Lost a lot of players and now it’s pretty much ‘dead’.

While Zone has a lot of awesome developers working on their debug server, There aren’t any updates and no players. This server is actually taking away awesome developers for nothing right now. I don’t have anything against Zone, And I really love the server. I would love to see it back online having this awesome playercount. But it needs to make changes, which they won’t make. I can’t say that this is because of the Manager (Stephen) or the staff’s since I also heard that they always have to wait for Stefan to upload it to the main server. But if that is the problem, Give the Manager the rights to change those things Stefan.

Ofcourse I can keep going on like this, But I don’t want to..
The problem was created by Stefan, Unixmad but also by us. Don’t blame him for everything while the players also did things they shouldn’t have done.

I just think that we have to change some changes that Graal has made..
- Bring the old trial system back
- Remove this stupid Graal### system

And for Zone personally..
- Remove the Hotkey system
- Remove the Gelat Shop, Bring the good old zone money shop back.

xAndrewx · #27 03-20-2010, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P

Google Wave would be perfect for this, if only it were public.

I have some invitations if anyone wants them, it's strange though... I wouldn't recommend it for a support center

Spark910 · #28 03-21-2010, 01:43 AM

Couldn't they make their own in-client support centre system? I'm sure it wouldn't be THAT hard and at least they can control the security side of things. The previous version was fully of things that weren't used like news, downloads and FAQs (the latter used in the sense content was published but I'm not sure noobies went there for the answers to the questions). So literally a way to submit a message, within a category and have the relevant staff member view, respond and close a problem accordingly.

cbk1994 · #29 03-21-2010, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spark910

Couldn't they make their own in-client support centre system? I'm sure it wouldn't be THAT hard and at least they can control the security side of things. The previous version was fully of things that weren't used like news, downloads and FAQs (the latter used in the sense content was published but I'm not sure noobies went there for the answers to the questions). So literally a way to submit a message, within a category and have the relevant staff member view, respond and close a problem accordingly.

I've offered Era's, which is in-game and does all of that and more (permissions for each staff member, "hidden categories" to forward to other staff, works with community names flawlessly, etc), but apparently they're not interested in an in-game support center.

Stephen · #30 03-21-2010, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbk1994

I've offered Era's, which is in-game and does all of that and more (permissions for each staff member, "hidden categories" to forward to other staff, works with community names flawlessly, etc), but apparently they're not interested in an in-game support center.

Only Stefan could implement something like that across all of Graal Online. Stefan is currently developing the client, specifically for iPhone. Hold your breath on this one and tell me how it works out for you.

ffcmike · #31 03-21-2010, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen

Only Stefan could implement something like that across all of Graal Online. Stefan is currently developing the client, specifically for iPhone. Hold your breath on this one and tell me how it works out for you.

I'm sure they could do with a Support Centre for the iPhone!

Loriel · #32 03-21-2010, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spark910

Couldn't they make their own in-client support centre system?

Because that worked so well for the RC, gani editor, etc.

TSAdmin · #33 03-21-2010, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spark910

Couldn't they make their own in-client support centre system?

That wouldn't be very useful to people who couldn't access the client for one reason or another in the first place.

Pimmeh · #34 03-21-2010, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheJames

I feel that they are in it for the money now.

O RLY?
Damn dude, of course they're in it for the money. Kind of an obvious statement...

I do think that there should be easy support though, so for the rest I concur. But this statement was just.... Duh!

If you had a game that was played by a decent amount of people, would you want to make as much money out of it as you can? Or would you rather live hanging from your nails?

Inverness · #35 03-21-2010, 03:16 AM

Just because Graal has GUI controls doesn't mean its a good idea to make everything using them. In-game suppport center for anything but local server issues is a terrible idea.

Stephen · #36 03-21-2010, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inverness

Just because Graal has GUI controls doesn't mean its a good idea to make everything using them. In-game suppport center for anything but local server issues is a terrible idea.

Making the support center accessible via client? Great idea.
Making the support center only accessible via client? Bad idea.

We're at the stage where, if this weren't a fictitious scenario, we could make that decision.

Darklux · #37 03-21-2010, 03:39 PM

I still don't like that we are paying like customers, yet are treated like coworkers that can't expect any official updates from above.

If the support center is buggy - upload a mantis or flyspray. They are updated regularly by the development communities and seem to do their job quite well...

Umat · #38 03-21-2010, 04:22 PM

A solution is to not put a potentially buggy web application on the same server as very important data and update it regularly to the latest version. :P

Old_Days · #39 03-21-2010, 05:07 PM

Maybe this is why I dont pay for this game anymore? Anyways why should graal players have to pay and develop things for themselves for them to enjoy?

Theres no common sense in that...Thats just like paying a company so you can work for them. Makes no sense, id rather have a game in which I get good entertainment for a good price.

Seems like we are all just throwing cash into stefans pocket and getting nothing back in return?

Because this topic majorly pisses me off im not going to continue with my full opinion. I can say one thing though, I will not contribute a single dime back to this game again unless theres some major improvements.

Trial for 6 months now and proud of it.

Inverness · #40 03-21-2010, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen

Making the support center accessible via client? Great idea.
Making the support center only accessible via client? Bad idea.

We're at the stage where, if this weren't a fictitious scenario, we could make that decision.

Yea that is a good point. Accessible by client is a good idea. Perhaps integrated with the server's local support services.