A Proposition to save Graal Kingdoms

[CABAL49]

Wow this took off fast. I have plenty of things I could say about Bjorn but the truth is he is not that bad of a guy. I personally think Tig could help but Stefan needs to give more power to Bjorn or Tig if he becomse an admin. I have noticed more things being fixed which is a great help to the community. I have no problem with Tig but untill more people who know how to script and know how to create content for the game Tig can't really do that much. It can not be expected of Bjorn to do everything, I have said for years that Kingdoms needs to hire some developers and teach new people to develop. Neither Tig, Bjorn or Stefan we be completly responsible for the revival of Kingdoms. There simply are not enough people. Tig does great work, I wish I had his skill. I have been learning to develop myself but it is very hard to do while trying to balance with my classes( whith I feel bad about cause I wanted to design some monsters for Raven). Bjorn is given mostly items, which will not save the server. Kingdoms needs new people. Seriously someone pay for a google add. There is enough content to keep new players occupied for a few years. Some things need to be done to make Kingdoms more noob freindly, but untill more people come along, who have time to spend developing Kingdoms not much can be done at this point.

[FenixTheBanished]

Originally Posted by CABAL49

Wow this took off fast. I have plenty of things I could say about Bjorn but the truth is he is not that bad of a guy. I personally think Tig could help but Stefan needs to give more power to Bjorn or Tig if he becomse an admin. I have noticed more things being fixed which is a great help to the community. I have no problem with Tig but untill more people who know how to script and know how to create content for the game Tig can't really do that much. It can not be expected of Bjorn to do everything, I have said for years that Kingdoms needs to hire some developers and teach new people to develop. Neither Tig, Bjorn or Stefan we be completly responsible for the revival of Kingdoms. There simply are not enough people. Tig does great work, I wish I had his skill. I have been learning to develop myself but it is very hard to do while trying to balance with my classes( whith I feel bad about cause I wanted to design some monsters for Raven). Bjorn is given mostly items, which will not save the server. Kingdoms needs new people. Seriously someone pay for a google add. There is enough content to keep new players occupied for a few years. Some things need to be done to make Kingdoms more noob freindly, but untill more people come along, who have time to spend developing Kingdoms not much can be done at this point.

Yes this is all true, but the fact of the matter is that Tig will still be able to help and a GREAT addition to the amin team because he will help create content, items, new towns, new monsters. The main point of this WHOLE forum is GK needs help. Tig is more than capable to be able to help revive Graal and its a start in the right direction. CLEARLY he will not act on his own and do stuff without approval and everything, so that isn't a problem. We need to get this server to be attractive again.

[Ravenblade1979]

Give Tig a shot...whats to lose. GK hit rock bottom but that rock is nearly cracked.

[BigBear3]

Everyone needs to shut the hell up. Yelling at Bjorn is doing nothing. (Bjorn works.) Sheen_the_mage, Gain some intelligence before posting again. Googi, Tig won't save this server? What exactly is save? Bring players back? Do you really think players want to join the Graal Kingdoms community as it is now? Maybe Tig has plans. There is no HARM AT ALL in giving Tig a chance to try and add content to Graal Kingdoms. I really don't see why not. He's just going to try and make Graal Kingdoms a more enjoyable experience for you and everybody else.

[FenixTheBanished]

Googi, Tig won't save this server? What exactly is save? Bring players back? Do you really think players want to join the Graal Kingdoms community as it is now? Maybe Tig has plans. There is no HARM AT ALL in giving Tig a chance to try and add content to Graal Kingdoms. I really don't see why not. He's just going to try and make Graal Kingdoms a more enjoyable experience for you and everybody else.

Give Tig a shot...whats to lose. GK hit rock bottom but that rock is nearly cracked.

There is the opinion of the server in a nutshell. Please do it.

[Googi]

Originally Posted by BigBear3

There is no HARM AT ALL in giving Tig a chance to try and add content to Graal Kingdoms.

But he can already try and add content to Graal Kingdoms. He just has to go through Stefan first. I don't see why this is a problem. I'd rather have Stefan going over anything than having people adding whatever they want. What I'd really like is for all updates to be subject to discussion on the forums before they're added.

[FenixTheBanished]

Originally Posted by Googi

But he can already try and add content to Graal Kingdoms. He just has to go through Stefan first. I don't see why this is a problem. I'd rather have Stefan going over anything than having people adding whatever they want. What I'd really like is for all updates to be subject to discussion on the forums before they're added.

Yeah, okay so you FIRST say that people have crappy ideas and graal would be destroyed if Bjorn and staff did whatever players wanted, but now you're sitting here saying you want things discussed?

And the whole he can already do it is, yes anyone can, but they wont be listened to. Plain and simple, its happened not only to me but others as well. So please realize that there is a problem and Tig isn't going to ADD to it he will HELP the problem go away. And if he only helps it a tiny bit then why does it matter? Because clearly sitting here and doing nothing hasn't worked for the last 4 years. So clearly doing SOMETHING is better than NOTHING because its already been shown that it IS NOT helping.

Please Googi let go of the whole "theres nothing that'll save the server in one go." We agree, but CLEARLY leaving it up to Bjorn and the other Admins is only making the problem worse, its NOT making it better. There needs to be something done and this is a step in the right direction.

[Googi]

Originally Posted by FenixTheBanished

Yeah, okay so you FIRST say that people have crappy ideas and graal would be destroyed if Bjorn and staff did whatever players wanted, but now you're sitting here saying you want things discussed?

Graalians aren't so great at coming up with effective ideas, but they're not bad when it comes to making valid criticisms.

Originally Posted by FenixTheBanished

And the whole he can already do it is, yes anyone can, but they wont be listened to. Plain and simple, its happened not only to me but others as well.

1. Examples? So far the reason for the examples given (aside from a few items and possibly the Dustari castle) isn't because Bjorn or Stefan is blocking the uploading of them, but because they're incomplete.

2. Even if Tig were an admin everything would still have to be approved by Stefan.

Originally Posted by FenixTheBanished

So please realize that there is a problem and Tig isn't going to ADD to it he will HELP the problem go away. And if he only helps it a tiny bit then why does it matter? Because clearly sitting here and doing nothing hasn't worked for the last 4 years. So clearly doing SOMETHING is better than NOTHING because its already been shown that it IS NOT helping.

1. It is possible for updates to damage the server further if they're the wrong updates.

2. Allowing a person to be admin because you don't think they're going to do something to hurt the server in the immediate future sets a precedent under which a whole lot of people could become admins.

Originally Posted by FenixTheBanished

Please Googi let go of the whole "theres nothing that'll save the server in one go."

I've never said this because I don't think it's true. I just don't think anything anybody has suggested yet is capable of doing this. In fact, I think that saving the server in "one go" is the only way to save it (in terms of using content to save it). The best chance the server has is to come up with something fairly substantial that's attractive to players of other servers, promote it like there's no tomorrow, and hope that the players who show up stick around. Incremental updates don't pull players away from other servers.

[Tigairius]

I think the biggest problem the GK administration has with my presence is my history. People forget to remember that the definition of history is the aggregate of past events. It's the past. There is nothing I can do to change the way I have acted in the past to get myself banned, etc. I'd like to bring an example to hand though: Hell Raven (sorry buddy <3). Hell Raven had been known for years as a notorious hacker, who spent a lot of time messing up things like Doomsday, by jailing everyone on the server, and on many other servers as well. He was banned for hacking too. He assisted in re-making a Graal1.39 server by coding, and was highly involved in some of those activities. He changed, he changed his mind, and his attitude and now he is a global staff member.
As I have stated several times I am sorry for the past, but bringing it up doesn't change the future of GK, does it? I am sided with the people who want me to be an administrator, but I am not rooting for any side. Either way, I consider this community my family and I consider this server my home, and I don't want to see it fall down like this without one last attempt by my hand.

Edit:
And I will be doing work on debug, anyways, I guess some people feel that with administration title it enables more control over the projects and these people trust my control.

[alarid0]

*just have to say first off that I didn't read any of the first three pages of this thread...i dont have the time to read it right now...*

"Proposition to save Graal Kingdoms" ...
really I have to laugh every time I catch wind of any thought of reviving or saving GK... its so doomed... so terribly doomed...

[jonnyrocks2]

GK is capable of being saved, but would require extensive work. :s

[DustyPorViva]

Where the hell are my 42 female virgins?

[ViperZakuto]

Tig will never be an admin of gk... because gk staff doesn't trust people from USA.. it's just a fact I've noticed in the past 5 years.

[FenixTheBanished]

If we keep pushing and show that we have support and are serious I think they will seriously consider it, but if we just sit here and roll over then yeah, nothing will happen.

[ReBorn_Spirit]

It's been proven before that new content only lasts so long.
The same goes for friendly/unfriendly faces. Not pointing at anyone really, I know alot of people feel Bjorn isnt on peoples good side as it is.

Fact is, you need more then just a server manager to be active. Events team and someone to fix bugs and update levels are needed as well. Not to mention not as critical and far more likely to succede at being restored then attempting to replace Bjorn.

There are hundreds of actually decent/semi decent suggestions that never even got an attempt to be done to GK. Some of them should have been too. It really isnt a wonder why GK is falling apart when you think of just those points alone.

Sorry but I just cannot agree with replacing staff when we should be restoring all of their activity ratings.

[Luigi203]

Originally Posted by ReBorn_Spirit

It's been proven before that new content only lasts so long.

It's been proven that anything new is only new for so long. The idea is to hire a server manager who adds/updates things regularly. What I mean is somone who doesn't wait for some sort of holiday to upload items with fancy new graphics, without even really developing the server. Real gameplay changes and updates. New functions, and the repair of disabled/never finished functions.

Originally Posted by ReBorn_Spirit

The same goes for friendly/unfriendly faces. Not pointing at anyone really, I know alot of people feel Bjorn isnt on peoples good side as it is.

Which is relevant, how?

Originally Posted by ReBorn_Spirit

Fact is, you need more then just a server manager to be active. Events team and someone to fix bugs and update levels are needed as well.

...and Tig is capabable of all of this...which is why Tig was nominated to replace Bjorn...?

Originally Posted by ReBorn_Spirit

Not to mention not as critical and far more likely to succede at being restored then attempting to replace Bjorn.

Did this sway your vote?

Originally Posted by ReBorn_Spirit

There are hundreds of actually decent/semi decent suggestions that never even got an attempt to be done to GK. Some of them should have been too. It really isnt a wonder why GK is falling apart when you think of just those points alone.

...which is why Tig was nominated to replace Bjorn...?

Originally Posted by ReBorn_Spirit

Sorry but I just cannot agree with replacing staff when we should be restoring all of their activity ratings.

What...?!

[Googi]

Originally Posted by Luigi203

...which is why Tig was nominated to replace Bjorn...?

Nobody is talking about having anybody replace Bjorn.

[Laek2007]

Originally Posted by Googi

Nobody is talking about having anybody replace Bjorn.

Obviously someone is.

And I do agree something has to happend.

[DraxxTeazok]

first off i have to say, googie your an idiot. i have never once seen you bring any useful information or advice to any thread on the forums. i have also suggested many great ideas to expand gk, and am never taken seriously. anyone who is a real gamer can tell how to evolve this game simply by taking the best parts of past games and adapting them to fit in the gk world. just like my fishing idea.

Secondly, tig you're one of the most foul people i have ever met, and as a person you make me sick, but i know you can dev, and you have ideas. if i could stand to be around you i may have already started working with you.

Third is to Bjorn, you're lazy. i dunno if anyone else really knows it, but i do. I know working on this game can be a pain, it can make you want to tear your hair out in clumps, but if you dont care for playing the game, then you should NEVER be in charge of anything.
Have you fixed the postal system yet that i asked you to do at least half a dozen times in the past two years? NO
instead you forgot about it again, guarantee it, because YOU DONT CARE TO PLAY this game
and whats worse is that you are still the best guy for the job
you're "waiting for those item stats" are ya?
you think you sound like a leader? you sound like a loser
if you gave a **** you would have gone to stefan 100 times by now for those stats
and you "dont know how the US works?"
you have made that very clear, but care to guess where your player base originates? thats right, we are mostly americans (dunno if you actually even realize that)
you have also made it very clear that you are good with scripting, but you know nothing about game creation
im willing to bet your not even a gamer, not even a little bit

i dont think we should replace you, i think you need to get your **** together and do something like a real leader

i have given you tons of my ideas for a great fishing system, bug catching, farming with animals, a pet job system, new monsters and drops, custom kingdom hair clothing and gear, sounds and animals of nature, a gift giving mail system, wild plant/fungus gathering guide, custom home furnishings, i can go on and on, but the fact is none of them, not one has been implimented

not once have you even taken the time to learn from me
even when alarid made custom kingdom clothing ideas, and new monsters, you ignored him until he quit, now he laughs at you and talks about how your doomed, and im willing to bet hes right

now im stuck doing GFX and being ignored alone again

you want people to actually believe you work hard? then hire some staff, hire some scripters and GFX, hire Tig for a start, and get to work on this games content (note that doesn't include anymore useless ugly items or blank islands) i mean REAL content

and dayaa, saying new content only lasts so long is just ignorant, thats like saying lords no longer have a place in gk
they weren't there before, then they were added, and they been useful in several ways ever since (thats real new content)

P.S. Tig if you cant script, i dont see how you could really be of help, other then helping with gfx (making new buildings filled with the same junk doesn't even classify as a bandaid)

[ViperZakuto]

I was waiting for you to come in on this one. =D I believe tig can script with the best of them. If he couldn't I don't think he would be working on his own server called Ol West. =O I see you have had more ideas. =P Wish I could help you on that =(

Originally Posted by Luigi203

...and Tig is capabable of all of this...which is why Tig was nominated to replace Bjorn...?

first off if you read this thread it is not to replace Bjorn. As much as we would all like to see it happen... Bjorn is more than likely going to stay. This is about making Tig an admin.

@Bjorn: Your lucky that the proposition to remove you from GK admin was taken down like 1 year ago for fear of getting banned. It was signed by like 2/3 of the gk population at the time =O

[dNeonb]

Originally Posted by ViperZakuto

This is about making Tig an admin.

Actually it is but you forgot to mention one point. All the arguments are based on it that Tig can only help GK if he is Admin, and this is not ture.

Originally Posted by ViperZakuto

@Bjorn: Your lucky that the proposition to remove you from GK admin was taken down like 1 year ago for fear of getting banned. It was signed by like 2/3 of the gk population at the time =O

I can not remember such a proposition at all. But when talking about 2/3 of GK you are talking about something on forums I assume because there wouldn't have been a way to do that on GK. So only say 2/3 of the people who are active on the gk forums and not of the GK players.
If I would treat people that way a few would be banned which they are not. This is just defamation and nothing else. If you have nothing better than defamations to support your opinion I really do feel sorry for you.

[Sheen_the_mage]

If the forum is just a tiny bit of the gk community, why isn't there an in-game poll?
I remember one a few years ago.

[Pimmeh]

Because the masses cant make their own desisions, afcourse.
That is the reason we have leaders, because total democracy wouldnt work

[Ravenblade1979]

Bjorn the fact that a petition was signed by 2/3rd's of GK players should tell you something. Don't ignore this. See this as a sign that maybe something serious is wrong here. I have to admit that you can be quick at uploading something as long as its done right and within your boundries but its time to get more help. Its time for you to have an admin who will be your equal (not saying to replace you) and won't be afraid to bite back.

People want more done. They want bug fixes, new monsters etc. Frankly people don't want to goto you because you do turn down a lot of stuff. As much as you want to deny this you know its true. Granted though for good reason most of the time(example: script doesn't work right, level isn't nice enough etc.).

I think its time to listen to the GK populous. Only so much can be done on debug. Especially when 96% of the people on there are only on for their kingdom. Tig is a good scripter but can only do so much. Me I am a mediocre LAT at best. We need more for the dev teams. We need specified dev team..not zormite or CP but GK itself. It can be Tig on that team as well as some other people.

Theres a first step to take Bjorn. How about getting a dev team specified on improving GK more by fixing bugs, adding monsters etc.

[Tigairius]

Originally Posted by DraxxTeazok

P.S. Tig if you cant script, i dont see how you could really be of help, other then helping with gfx (making new buildings filled with the same junk doesn't even classify as a bandaid)

I am one of the most well-known scripters on Graal.

[dNeonb]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

I am one of the most well-known scripters on Graal.

This is true and this is why he is developer else he wouldn't be.

[FenixTheBanished]

Originally Posted by DraxxTeazok

i have given you tons of my ideas for a great fishing system, bug catching, farming with animals, a pet job system, new monsters and drops, custom kingdom hair clothing and gear, sounds and animals of nature, a gift giving mail system, wild plant/fungus gathering guide, custom home furnishings, i can go on and on, but the fact is none of them, not one has been implimented

not once have you even taken the time to learn from me
even when alarid made custom kingdom clothing ideas, and new monsters, you ignored him until he quit, now he laughs at you and talks about how your doomed, and im willing to bet hes right

now im stuck doing GFX and being ignored alone again

you want people to actually believe you work hard? then hire some staff, hire some scripters and GFX, hire Tig for a start, and get to work on this games content (note that doesn't include anymore useless ugly items or blank islands) i mean REAL content.

Please respond to that. Its all factual and you can not deny it.



Now please respond to this also posted by Ravenblade, whom is staff of multiple servers and highly respected.

I think its time to listen to the GK populous. Only so much can be done on debug. Especially when 96 (percent) of the people on there are only on for their kingdom. Tig is a good scripter but can only do so much. Me I am a mediocre LAT at best. We need more for the dev teams. We need specified dev team..not zormite or CP but GK itself. It can be Tig on that team as well as some other people.

Theres a first step to take Bjorn. How about getting a dev team specified on improving GK more by fixing bugs, adding monsters etc.

Thanks.

[Tigairius]

Draxx you have a lot of good ideas, after I finish my current projects I will talk to Björn and Stefan about if I can do some of them, and see if I can get some of those done, like a herbalism job, and stuff. Also may start working on a quest system to get people to use their skills, like "Please, go charm 10 monsters and return to me" so people will have to use oratory and singing, may make leveling a bit more fun.

[FenixTheBanished]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

Draxx you have a lot of good ideas, after I finish my current projects I will talk to Björn and Stefan about if I can do some of them, and see if I can get some of those done, like a herbalism job, and stuff. Also may start working on a quest system to get people to use their skills, like "Please, go charm 10 monsters and return to me" so people will have to use oratory and singing, may make leveling a bit more fun.

Also something that could be good for noobs is quests that will reward them some basic gear.

[Tigairius]

Originally Posted by FenixTheBanished

Also something that could be good for noobs is quests that will reward them some basic gear.

Yes, simple quests like "please take this letter to ____ in Eastern Bomboria"

[dNeonb]

Originally Posted by FenixTheBanished

Please respond to that. Its all factual and you can not deny it.

Why should I, he wrote it but I don't quote from a post where someone clearly insults other people.

But your comprehension of that, well ok. To answer it quite shortly.
He might gave me ideas, but did he ever try to realize one of them? Yes, I remember one quite good actually. But everything else he wanted me to do even I didn't like it. He could have taken the opportunity and said I manage it and get a crew to help him. I even told him that I did like some of the ideas and I also supported some myself. For example the fishing system. But after Contiga he left Draxx did nothing except waiting for a wonder finishing the source code while painting on the fishes. Just that about the ideas.

Alarid is quite a bad example you did pick because he was payed for these gfx. They have been for projects from unixmad and stefan. Some of these things were only sketches, and tell me how I should have the right to tell him to finish these and spend the money of unixmad? If you want to try to explain him fine, but not me.

The king of forest is stuck doing pixle art, I suggest to manage your debug crew to help you. I got to hear from Fenix that he wants to be on the team but this is only a rumor. You never requested him to get debug access to me or even confirmed what he told me. - But sure, point everything to me so it's not the fault of someone else.

I never said I work hard, you just did. Oh, hire staff... wait. Isn't Tig hired for weeks? Well, nice that you noticed it now after you read this.


Raven, I don't think you even know Tig has NC on Debug and can do quite a lot things.

Originally Posted by FenixTheBanished

Thanks.

Please, but next time let him point out his things by himself in a clean post without insulting people.

[Ravenblade1979]

Oh yeah I heard about that.

[ViperZakuto]

Originally Posted by dNeonb

I can not remember such a proposition at all. But when talking about 2/3 of GK you are talking about something on forums I assume because there wouldn't have been a way to do that on GK. So only say 2/3 of the people who are active on the gk forums and not of the GK players.
If I would treat people that way a few would be banned which they are not. This is just defamation and nothing else. If you have nothing better than defamations to support your opinion I really do feel sorry for you.

You don't remember it because it was never on the forums. The queen of Forest at the time(not mentioning any names) made her own forums and we made a thread to present to Stefan. There was about 2/3 of the GK community on that thread post. Not just this forum community. She got scared and deleted the thread off of HER forums.

[Googi]

Originally Posted by Laek2007

Obviously someone is.

My post is a slight exaggeration, since a few people have mentioned it, but the main point is that the replacement of Bjorn is not an aim of this thread.

Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

Only so much can be done on debug.

Actually, quite a bit can be done on debug compared to being an admin on 2K2, seeing as I have yet to see someone come up with a valid explanation of how making Tig an admin would allow for more or faster updates. The way things are now, Tig has to make an update, test it on debug and submit it to Stefan for approval. If he were an admin on the main server, he would have to make an update, test it on debug and submit it to Stefan for approval.

Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

We need more for the dev teams. We need specified dev team..not zormite or CP but GK itself. It can be Tig on that team as well as some other people.

But Bjorn is already willing to hire people who can dev.

[pooper200000]

Originally Posted by FenixTheBanished

Now please respond to this also posted by Ravenblade, whom is staff of multiple servers and highly respected.

*Snickers*

Originally Posted by Googi

My post is a slight exaggeration, since a few people have mentioned it, but the main point is that the replacement of Bjorn is not an aim of this thread.
Actually, quite a bit can be done on debug compared to being an admin on 2K2, seeing as I have yet to see someone come up with a valid explanation of how making Tig an admin would allow for more or faster updates. The way things are now, Tig has to make an update, test it on debug and submit it to Stefan for approval. If he were an admin on the main server, he would have to make an update, test it on debug and submit it to Stefan for approval.
But Bjorn is already willing to hire people who can dev.

Ok I have a question I like Tig he seems like a reasonable person but Googi is right. If he already has a debug NC wouldn't he already be working on projects? So shouldn't Stefan make the decision anyway you can say you support him but what has Tig done and what has Bjorn done? Bjorn manages to the extent of his abilities but Tig has to prove to Stefan with exceptional work that he should be admin. What can Tig do that Bjorn himself is not already doing? Wouldn't he become too bogged down with work to manage anyway?

[ViperZakuto]

the thing is... Bjorn doesn't really present much to stefan. If he doesn't like the idea... then no discussion is done with stefan. Bjorn doesn't really know what is best for gk. Tig knows more of what is best for gk because he has played it for so long.

[pooper200000]

Originally Posted by ViperZakuto

the thing is... Bjorn doesn't really present much to stefan. If he doesn't like the idea... then no discussion is done with stefan. Bjorn doesn't really know what is best for gk. Tig knows more of what is best for gk because he has played it for so long.

Well yes but he still has to go through the exact same processes. It's not as much Bjorn slowing the system down its someone else. (Doesn't look at Dev workers) Dont get me wrong I respect this person but perhaps a new "Okay-er" is needed? Work is always submitted "Okaying" is the problem and Tig isn't going to magicly change that I don't think..

[Googi]

Originally Posted by ViperZakuto

the thing is... Bjorn doesn't really present much to stefan. If he doesn't like the idea... then no discussion is done with stefan. Bjorn doesn't really know what is best for gk. Tig knows more of what is best for gk because he has played it for so long.

But Tig doesn't have to go through Bjorn to get to Stefan. Unless it's something like Stefan not trusting opinions that don't come from Bjorn, which isn't something that's addressed by changing Tig's staff-rank.

[CABAL49]

Googi has probably kept more new people playing Kingdoms than any other player. I personally beleive that Googi is an intelligent person and in no ways are his opinion invalid.

An idea I have which I believe would help Graal as a whole, would be if someone would teach others how to actually develop. I know there are guides floating around online, but I mean interactive.

[pooper200000]

how about this...?
Googi = Ideas for Tig + GfX'ers
Tig = Script them
Bjorn = Get stefan to add them.