How is the chat system negative.
The only complaining I've heard is from you, everyone else has given positive feedback, even maximus likes it.

I never suggested to give positive feedback to crappy content, just to be less negative about it. Also to give positive feedback for good ideas and implementations, buggy or not. If there's some bugs, suggest some fixes with a positive tone, it'll end up getting a better response from your dev team.

Always finding a reason to criticize, eh Rufus? Hey, does Bomy Island have a release date yet?

As for the chat system, it is a great idea in my opinion. Toall barely functioned as it was, this is a more useful system, and there is huge potential for this system. For me, it has eliminated the need to use the playerlist other than PMs (which I assume could be scripted into this system as well). I can copy/paste toall chat (useful for links), no longer will I miss messages if I accidently double-click. Down the road the system could get integrated into other systems, from interactions from NPCs, to something as big as event notification. I could go on and on about where this can go.

Just because you have a good idea doesn’t mean it's a good idea to implement it. You haven't even heard any complaining from me, because I genuinely spoke to WhiteDragon about the chat system last night and suggested how it could be better implemented. I don't believe that the chat system is cohesive to the server though, it's more like adding new features which seem to be required as a baseline feature for a traditional MMO. Preexisting Graal systems do not mesh very well with it, even besides the toalls, there is nothing to account for guild messages for example.

I do give positive feedback for content that is cohesive to the server it is added, but adding something like this is like trying to be different for the sake of being different. I am pretty certain that Classic can be different and advance without undermining features which have existed for years and replacing them with generic MMO ones. By adding content that is completely different from the content which has existed for years alienates the players who feel as though Classic should be somewhat Classic. If those players who moan on for that content to return actually like this system, it's going to be pretty ironic really.

I just don't understand why it's there. Why has there been time spent on this npc which allows us to do what we could already? It's not exactly easier, I mean we still have to read and click the green/grey bubbles. Instead of traditional toguild: messages showing in it, why just not have /guild messages. Like what Zodiac has. After all that's what they're trying to emulate, right?

I don't see the problem with its implimentation, it improves a lot of the problems associated with graal's current chat system.

toalls and toguilds are both horribly dated and dont work very well, honestly I don't like clicking messages every time I get one, i dont know who does.

sure there are some bugs but those can be improved. just because its a generic idea from somewhere else doesnt make it negative content. hell, graal in itself is a generic idea from another popular snes game, how it evolved since then is what matters. how this chat system evovles to adapt to classic is what matters.

I hope that was a response to Dusty's post and not mine. If it was about mine, I never said that myself or anyone else was going to take this route.

Is the system cohesive with the rest of the server? Is the system even cohesive default Graal features which have existed for years? I'm not going to stress a "it's not Classic because it didn't exist years ago!" argument because I find that an easy route to take when reviewing new content, but it isn't current adapting on what was there in a progressive nature, which is what Classic needs. The chat system is not cohesive nor consistent with Classic, especially aesthetically. It is an integrated offering of something we already had with the exception of chat logging and ease of viewing, which has many workarounds anyway.

You suggested that by releasing this half-done and inconsistent chat system it removes the stagnation of the server, but all you're really doing is leading the staff into a false sense of security with their releases. This might please a few people for a few hours, but it really isn't something that is worth logging on to see and you of all people should understand how important that is right now.

It was, since dusty suggested to fix all the scripts to work with default hd.

You suggested it. He disagreed.

This is a big picture item here, try to see past what it is now.

Its togglable, so you can have whatever chat system you desire. old or new. The only incohesiveness is that toalls and toguilds appear twice, in the chat window and in the playerlist/minimap as a bubble.

I never suggested it removes the stagnation of the server, no one single release will please anyone for more than a few hours alone. I dont even expect cards to do that, and thats a HUGE project and a HUGE new release It's all part of a bigger picture.

As a player, why would I take a release and think of how it could be done instead of taking the release at face value and using what it currently does? I'm not going to praise something that has the potential to be good if it currently isn't either, I'm going to praise something that is good. If something has been released for the sake of releasing something (and it is pretty obvious too) why would anyone accept that as a contributing factor to removing stagnation? Because it is content and it is a release? :rolleyes:

A system like this does have potential (I have something similar in functionality on that server you seem eager to bring up every time you can't find something to say) but I don't see how releasing what was released on Classic in its current state is contributing to the bigger picture of removing the stagnation of the server at current, because it isn't.

The chat system and the icon are aesthetically inconsistent with the systems on Classic in favor of a more generic style that isn't used on the server anywhere at all. That is why I stated that it isn't cohesive with the rest of the server and perhaps if it matched Classic a little more it would be cohesive after all.

DarkCloud_PK [A]: the more compliments and positive response a dev team gets for their work, they more they will be inspired to do more
TheDae [A]: They dont do anything worth praising
DarkCloud_PK [A]: thats why i dont make events anymore, because people never gave me compliments or use the **** i made
maximus_asinus [A]: Dae, this system is a prime example of something good
DarkCloud_PK [A]: ok thedae, how about we just be stagnant for another 4 years

So we aren't going to praise a dev for actually releasing something b/c it isn't perfect?

Nothing on Graal is ever going to be perfect.

How is it stupid? Classic is in dire need of a capable HD. If that means it's gonna break stuff then that stuff needs to be fixed. I'd rather have a better HD and have things fixed up than just leave what's there now just because it might break a few things.

I dont see how that toall log relates to what I said.
If people keep up the attitude that the dev team does NOTHING worth any praise, they won't develop at all. If you don't develop at all, what does that turn into? Definitely not stagnation, oh no not that.

Classic is in dire need of new content, not more HD's.
If we keep spending dev time to switch everything to default for a couple years, we would then have a default HD and nothing else(it isnt going to break a few things, its going to break MOST things).
Meanwhile, UN and other servers have default HD and a ton of other things to do. Who wants to keep playing classic in its current state with whatever HD is has?

Important things need to be fixed first. Why build even more content on a broken HD? Then there's going to be even more to fix in the long-run when HD is finally revisited(which it needs to be).

Just because it isnt default doesnt make it broken, it makes it different. The HD isn't as important as the complete lack of things to do. Hell, even a lot of the things slated for release are completely unrelated to HD in the first place.

Get your priorities straight, and get a grasp on reality. If we have to spend anymore significant time rebuilding whats already there, you might as well delete Classic, because its never going to get back up.

Apparently, with all the complaints, the HD is very important. When everyone finishes all they have to do content-wise(which doesn't take long, no matter how much they add), they do what? Spar/PK. How can they do that with a broken HD?

I agree, you shouldn't have to spend any more time on it... but now you do. That's not my fault though. 4 years and barely any content and system after system being 'fixed' until now everyone hates it. All Classic has done is dug itself a hole and yes, it has to be pulled out before adding anything else or else the hole is just going to get deeper.

The people complain about the HD no matter what HD you put in, they put a default emulation online and everyone complained. We have spar rooms and PK rooms that use the DEFAULT HD, noone uses them. If you put in default HD, noone is going to come back, they will stay on UN. Until everyone magically has the same ping to the server, someone will complain about any HD being used.

Classic dug its hole not making content besides GC events, not by having a certain HD. People don't stay away from classic because of the HD, they stay away because THERE IS NOTHING TO DO. Try playing classic instead of sitting on the sidelines guessing, because you don't have a clue.

The HD is never going to be agreeable to every single person since someone is always going to be at a disadvantage.

Both the HD and content are very important. But you can't put off one to work on the other. We might have to make an HD thats compatible with the current levels but is better than either of the two we have right now. I'm not sure what that is or how it would work, but all I know is both hds have their flaws and its causing a huge commotion right now.

DC's right though. No matter what the HD is, Classic desperately needs content. GCs can help the server greatly, but with the playercount in the 20s-30s events cannot always be continuously hosted, thus creating gaps in between events. Classic needs solid content to fill the void. What that is, I don't know.

We need an HD that most of the people can work with, AND we need content to will in the gaps between events. But we can't forge along with two HDs, nor can we rebuild everything for default and not make anything new.

What if people genuinely don't think that the development team does nothing worth praise? Developers are there to develop, if you're not going to develop then you shouldn't be in the position, not boycotting working under the condition that players praise content that they don't feel is worth praising.

Even the people who play the server on a regular basis complain in a similar fashion, what do you suggest they do?

The problem is though, if you add content now, it will be accustomed to the HD that will eventually need to be revisited. Then there is going to be the same problem that is right now, except even more that will need to be fixed when the HD is finally changed.

I don't know if we can make an HD that is compatible with all levels. Apparently clientside was, but perhaps a different HD wouldn't be able to. IF we can make one that works with all levels AND it sits well with the majority, it'd be the best option.

I think he means it effects them psychologically. It isn't simply a matter of choice, it's something that hits you subconsciously. If players constantly attack you, and criticize everything you make, big or small, you'll begin to lack the enthusiasm and desire you may of had when you begun, and then you'll stop developing altogether. He is suggesting that we use positive reinforcement when dealing with the content presented to us. You can criticize, but do it in a helpful way that won't discourage the developer (and this is not to say that you have to hold their hand and make sure they don't throw a fit; just saying there are other ways of saying 'I hate it' other than 'it sucks').

The chat system wasn't meant to "revive the server" or take it out of stagnation. It was just a small update that will hopefully make playing the server easier. It took me collectively under 2 hours to make so don't feel like your being robbed of something amazing in it's place.


And I think the point trying to be put across in these last few posts is this:
If a player doesn't like the content released, they can either provide constructive criticism or bash the content, and there is a difference. Bashing the content doesn't do the server any good -- it only slows down development by discouraging staff.

If you think the quality of everything being released is too low, then I would suggest taking it up with high officials on the server and ask them to reevaluate the department.
Otherwise, if you just think there are a few problems, help fix them by pointing them out.


And in response to the whole HD argument, we are aware that it's a problem and we're trying to take the most beneficial route to fixing it. We are also aware that fixing it won't be the holy grail of the server and make everyone migrate, hence why we aren't dedicating the whole development team to it.
Rather than arguing about the HD I would suggest waiting for the newer one to be released which should feel more like the default, and possibly talking about other problems on the server.

ya....thx for it . but its kinda add lag when the box is filled with messages , at least to me

Yes that can happen. Also does that with the F2 window for me(and to many other people, but they don't tend to understand why they lag so much).

I lol'd at the stupidity in this comparison.

A more accurate comparison would be you asked for a red power ranger but you got a blue power ranger knockoff with sharp metal edges and lead paint.

No, the comparison wasn't perfect. But the point should be obvious. You essentially got what you asked for. Shut up and be happy. You could have just as easily gotten no presents or something completely different like a barbie doll (in the case of graal, no additions or a strange HD you didn't ask for.) The dev team actually listened to the players and gave them something they asked for; don't ***** because it isn't perfect or everything you hoped it'd be.

That's funny Gladius because I remember you primarily being one of the people to complain oh so much about this HD. In fact, only the US guild complained so much.

Funny because I never said it was good in any of my previous posts. I'm simply saying stop *****ing about something you asked for. Comment about it or try to get it changed. But stop crying all the damn time over it. "No I won't join the event b/c its clientside!!!!!"

Probably a good thing most these people weren't around pre npc to remember the horrific lag that is considered so wonderful to faded memories now.

I don't think I have ever stated that something just sucks, in fact I don't think I have seen anyone say something like that for a long time because I encouraged people to start voicing their true opinions more. If the development team need to be babied in order to for them to work and release decent content though then they're not doing their jobs. Positive reinforcement doesn't work for content that you genuinely don't think fits in either.

Okay so everyone else (including the people I do not get on with) just jumped on the bandwaggon, eh?

What is wrong with that quote?

look who talking mister "i stop playing ctf cause this hd suck".

Yea they asked for it but that doesn't mean that the players should be blamed because it is crap. The players didn't know it was going to be crap did they? No. Just blame the players for the Developers doings though, right?

@Gladius: Did you respond to anything at all in my post? Apparently it doesn't look like it.
@Rufus: I just haven't seen that many people complain so much from other parties.
@Xaphan: Yeah the players knew what they were getting. It was tested in several events, including CTF, several spars and pk/zones if i remember correctly.

I know I'm complaining a lot about the serverside HD, primarily because I have no clue where I'm going to be hit because my ping will either go up or down. Both HD's suck quite honestly but at least you just had to adjust to Clientside. Some hits didnt count because most of us are american players and we lag so you can't expect to hit laggers quite easily.

Nah Mystic, the players just voted for change for the sake of change.

@ Mystic. Ya I totally responded to what you said. Are you really that blind? You said I was "one of the people who complained about the HD". I said "I never said the HD was good, just stop *****ing at the devs for doing something you wanted." So ya, I clearly responded to it kthx.

@ Xaphan. What were the players expecting when they voted for clientside then? Surely the news about the occasional no-hits was out there.

I never meant you specifically, and yes, people still go around and say "it sucks", or "I don't like it" without giving any constructive criticism. Some people say "it isn't Classic" and leave it at that, which is exactly the same. What is constructive about that?

I never suggested babying them, I only meant that you should treat them how they deserve to be treated; as people, people who volunteered. They don't get much respect from anyone for the hard work and long hours they put in (which they don't see a penny for, nor even a thank you).