Very. It was already decently progressing when I quit. Too bad a certain someone had to be ignorant and do it his way.

Yea, whatever happened to all the old levels? Could it be possible for someone to bring back the old levels and make new scripting for them?


I'm certain many people have suggested this, but all the community of classic got in response was "it's not possible or easy to convert things" no one was asked to convert anything, just make all new scripting. and fix possible tile or level errors to the existing levels and maps, much less troublesome than having to do everything from nothing right?

There is no difference between "converting" and "making all new scripting" in a lot of the situations involved. Some things truthfully were impossible to update, at least in a way that had them function exactly like they did prior to the NPC Server. That's still no reason to just throw away all the work that had been done and redesign everything as it is now, however.

wow that just right .

Can't really keep on looking back at wrong decisions made. It's about correcting those now, instead, focus on what there currently is. Like this god awful HD in place, it needs to be removed/changed - yet Thor still thinks there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. :\

I showed numerous times to Thor how I had an advantage during CTF Indoor yesterday, yet he took it the wrong way and took it personally. I have nothing against him, it's just if content produced isn't good enough/not playable/fair, how or what or why on earth would I lie and say it's good or shut my mouth up like everyone else who's given up hope?

I could get passed everyone so easily because of my lag, I even had enough time to type away with paragraphs and only get hit once or twice (because I stood there), guess what? My team still won even though me and Oni spent most of the time pointing out the flaws of the HD... We clearly were hitting people and hits weren't going through... I don't know about Oni, but I was being hit yet got no HP taken off.

One of the opposition said "idk why you are complaining... i have hit you tons of times yet nothing happened" and then I replied "that's EXACTLY WHY i'm complaining, because it's no longer a game if i'm virtually cheating -- by taking advantage of this HD it has on laggers such as myself.

Edit:
Here is the February monthly. Thor versus a clear lagger taking advantage of the HD, and winning in the end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSRD0HTKCbo

Judge for yourself, but especially at 1:14 you see Thor hit the lagger yet nothing, but he hits Thor and it gets detected?
wtf?

I'm not sure. I just think people think of Supernicks as a Classic place.

I'm not even sure if Master Storm's systems on there are meant for Classic. He was making a new HD in regards to Classic, but then Clientside was released so i don't know what he's doing with it now. Konidias hyped up Graal2001 in 2006, where there were more developers. Since more people wanted to see Graal2001 come back, they helped him. But now it's 2009 and you guys can get a very few limited developers, as well as any server. Even comes to the point where many are multistaffing because they have to. Classic is in the same boat, especially when they rarely hire people with no scripting or graphic ability. You're right if they could hype it up, it could come back as something good, but I don't think they'll be able to even do it.

It just came out, nobody will get instantly good at it. It's kind of a bad HD, I'll agree with that though. But not so much on having serverside back.

I know a lot of people were complaining for a new HD right around the time the server went to Europe. Even I was. It was a suggestion from many players to change the HD to clientside because of getting hit from such a far range. It was tested in several spots as far as I know. But i guess you're right on that somewhat that the players would just agree for anything. But from the several CTF's i hosted on Clientside HD (when it was a droppable, and the server was serverside hd), nobody complained o.O. MoD change was terrible, true, but only because of the short time limit. UN relies on polls and look how terrible that server came out to be. You can't sit peacefully in towncenter without getting blown up by 1000 NPCW's

Well he's been supposedly reading this thread and gathering down the ideas. Will he act? I don't know I gave him a few ideas which we discussed but in the end wasn't right.


@GTA Idea: If anyone wanted to covert thousands of levels in all this time lol. Seems like a pain.

@Kill: Blobz wins most of the spar tourneys/monthly spar tourneys on Unholy Nation. It's ridiculous and many people complain because he lags 10 times worse than any Classic person you've seen. It's just reality that the lagger will dominate Graal sparring.

i kinda agree on that , even tought i lagged once as bad as blobz i got kicked , but i was vs meryl(if you know her you know what i meant) but both didnt get kick.

uhhhhh he's won what, 2 utc's in the past 2 years? his lag doesn't dominate graal sparring at all, just lil scrubs who have no idea what they're doing

lol@ lil scrubs.
anyway , ares your online like.....some hours a day or not even one hour , why would you talk statistics when you dont know ****. blobz has been tagteam champ for over some weeks now.

first of all, i hope you realize that blobz and i won the utctt.. second, i was there, watching him win some and losing some.. lag doesn't dominate graal sparring

yes its does. and yes i realised that was your statue. and blobz lag is way too hard.

From what I heard, peopel have offered two times for help to convert the old levels to new gscript and twice, nothign real was done.
So stop to argue and help instead on wasting time with this thread.

and you are?

A friend of classic - while you only seem to be able to comment in a destructive way.

I've seen him win the past 2 ttutcs. I've seen him win 3 utc's in the past few months. I've seen him win many freeze tag doubles. I've seen him win many MST's/TTMST's. Fact is, he wins a majority of his spars with no skill at all. Yeah, he's beatable. I beat him a couple times in the past before....

Anyway, we're straying from Classic.

Classic now has about 12 developers. I'm willing to bet 80 percent of them have no clue. I don't think it's a case of getting even more developers, you'd think that that many developers would be more than enough to work on a project, right? Then again giving any random player who can "develop" a staff position and giving them an RC is their way of maintaining a playercount above 20 afterall :rolleyes:

Why can no one see that their current methods are no way going to help the server?

It would be nice to see the Developmental side of Classic being posted somewhere: preferably on these official forums. It would help as it not only tells us the direction of where the Development team are going; but we can also give feedback and invaluable suggestions and recommendations as to how the current [or future] content could be improved upon or whether some things may not be as... shall we say, wise to make?

Why do you think WhiteDragon is "Assistant Developer Administrator" now? So he can be used as a proxy to post for people like Thor most likely :rolleyes:

Want me to log my progress on the ice quest whenever I get back into the groove of school and start working on it again?

Next event I am going to post video on how terrible the hit detection is now. Just played a CTF where I could walk through arrows and slash people so clearly but they just walk through it.

Don't really see him post any updates or future ideas/plans about Development stuff...
Would be nice, yes.
It seems like it's the only way of proving a point as the Admins don't believe in anything unless they see it for themselves; ofcourse, you can expect Thor to be ignorant and deluded by still thinking that there's nothing wrong with the HD (only because he made it). Today, once again, I see people hit me yet nothing. It's gone beyond a joke now, this HD is no longer a mockery; it is a complete and utter failure.

whitedragon makes cool npcs that will never get released so he's really only a dev for fun and luda's probably the best dev but he gets no respect so he never knows what to do but at least he works unlike the other devs

Do you know what? that's actually pretty accurate. WhiteDragon i've seen only make fancy laggy NPCs so that he can sparkle away running around the overworld with boots and lag up the server to make everyone annoyed. Perhaps he's just showing off. I don't really know what the point in making fancy laggy NPCs is... if it's to do with future quests, then honestly... How can you say they're trying to keep things 'Classic' when things like that produced is a total contradiction in itself.

Didn't luda quit?

Yes, Luda's the best Dev when he breaks every staff rule and summons the server. :rolleyes:

Just put the previous HD back until there is a better one developed than the one that Thor made atleast. So we can go back to enjoying CTF and PK/Spars in the mean time until something better comes along. Yes, I know it wouldn't solve all of Classic's problems but it would atleast be tolerable...

Agreed.

Classic needs a vision. A vision of what the server should be. Should it continue using the current levels, should it revert back to the levels used in 2000 etc. At present there is no consensus as to what classic should be. Here in lies the problem. There is at present a myriad of projects all heading in different directions. This effort is important and of fundamental importance but needs to be redirected into constructive projects that will aid into a classic vision.

Classic needs to redefine itself. It needs to focus on its core competencies, that is, things it is (was) good at. This would serve as a basis as to the re-establishment of the classic community. The introduction of bowling was a move in the right direction. Yes, it proved entertainment for a few days. However, slowly, as more beneficial projects are introduced the offering to new players is enhanced (this is needed for playercount growth).

The manager of the server should be driving the change needed.

And yes although the HD might need reworking dont just say 'OMG THIS HD SUCKS LULZ YOUR ****' perhaps no one is listening to your claims because all your offering is criticism not a resolution. Well, what is wrong with the HD, list the problems ie.
1)
2)
3)
and perhaps the issues will be resolved - although unlikely.

This is like the 83409384 thread complaining about the same problems and issues. This should register with the development staff and it hasn't <PROBLEM HERE. So im not really expecting anyone to read this and act upon my viewpoint :)! Peace :D <3

For the Europeans, yes.

Anyways, why don't they just script a HD geared towards the default HD with the movement as well? I'm not sure how much that process would be strayed from the amount of time it took to convert to Clientside HD.

I've talked to Thor and WhiteDragon on HD, and I recieved very different answers on why they've decided to change the system from Serverside to Clientside. To me, serverside is the most secure because lag didn't play such a major role. The server decided what was considered a hit, not the client. For the most part if it looked like it should hit, it would count as a hit. Now if it looks like a hit, you're wrong because your faster connection hasn't been refreshed with the new client's information and coordinates; they have been two steps ahead the whole time.

Everyone please laugh at this. You know you want to. ...and it's completely justified.



If the system NPCs weren't the biggest collection of random additions all calling each other back and forth a few hundred times for each minor thing you could possibly want to do, you'd have this wish already. I've duplicated the default, with all the positives and negatives that come with it. This is, as I understand it, what the majority want, and with good reason. The only reason it isn't implemented yet is because I have no desire to spend the time it takes to sift through the ridiculous mess of system NPCs that have no organization whatsoever. It's not surprising that things don't get done.




I wouldn't really consider lag "security", but I guess I can see how it might be viewed that way. If someone is intentionally making themselves lag to get an advantage, it can still be accomplished with serverside hit detection, although not in the same way.

This is essentially how it was before NPC servers existed. Did you feel the same about it then?

People like to feel that the game they are playing is responsive. Clientside HD provides just that -- when you see a player and you hit them, they are hurt. It responds(though this reflects the script itself).

Serverside HD is quite the opposite. Instead you must hit where the server knows the player is instead of where you see. That is counter-intuitive to what a game should be trying to accomplish. Responsiveness is very important to good controls and presentation.

We do not get this with the current clientside hit detection. Why is that?
Woops, I was rewording a paragraph, two sentences became one and I forgot to proof read. That wasn't supposed to be in my post at all.
The old system worked pretty much the opposite way, or atleast it did to me. They've created a system to cater to the laggiest player.

Like I said, reflects the script itself. Good clientside HD accomplishes the feeling of responsiveness.

Thor apparently has the numbers needed to replicate the default HD, why he didn't use it is beyond me.

Do you not think that the current hit detection was intended to be like that?

With our serverside hit detection you seen players when you hit them, and they seen you hit them in return. The player did not require to be walking towards you in order for them to get hit, which they do in default hit detection unless your pings, region and UDP are matched well. Lag did not provide an unfair advantage and it couldn't be as abused as it is with clientside hit detection. There was the odd duff hit, but it was never a case of hitting where the server seen the player in order to get a hit, which would be just as bad as hitting invisible laggers on any clientside hit detection anyway.

In this regard, I don't see how clientside hit detection provides good responsiveness or presentation when compared to serverside at all.

All systems can be abused. It's still perfectly possible for someone to throttle their connection to where they're moving erratically, even if it's not substantial. This would affect serverside hit detection. It's still a potential advantage, and abuse.

In sparring and in PKing this did not provide an advantage. In events such as CTF this was dealt with by the Game Coordinators.

I would find someone moving in larger increments and to a potentially random location (granted, within limited range) difficult to deal with, and as a result, it would be a disadvantage to me. I don't see how this would be any different for anyone else. Ultimately, the point is that serverside isn't perfect either.

Just as any issues from using clientside hit detection will be dealt with by appropriate staff members. I'm not saying one is better than the other (hit detection methods), but clientside is what I know a lot of people want.

Because clientside is well... clientside. It's all calculated on what is going on on your side, so if I hit where I SEE you, I actually hit you. This does not happen with serverside if there is lag because there is a delay between what's going on on your side, and what's going on on the server, then there's the delay between me and the server as well. Many times in my experience with the serverside HD on Classic I had to predict my opponents moves and hit ahead rather than being able to hit them.

With serverside hit detection have the ability to hit their player directly, which includes when the player freezes and jumps around. With clientside hit detection you are required to hit a lot of steps ahead in order for them to receive a hit and outside of sparring it is neither predictable nor appropriate.

That is hardly the same. It is way easier to abuse your connection with clientside hit detection. In events such as CTF you can't really just "deal" with people abusing lag with a clientside hit detection, because not every lagger has choppy movements yet is placed at an advantage. With serverside hit detection laggers are evident because your opposition does not need to be walking towards your sword in order to take a hit. I don't see how the staff members can deal with abuse that responds differently to different people, nor should they really be expected to judge it.

When I hit a player on serverside there were very few instances where they did not see the hit on their side as well. On clientside hit detection there is the same issue, but aesthetically I'd probably say it was even worse because you're not hitting the player on either screens if they lag. Scripted hit detection is always going to have a greater delay than the hard coded default (which I assume is what most players are looking for when they campaign for clientside hit detection) and this includes clientside as well. Triggeractions seem to appear earlier in the data than player movement. On your screen you can turn and swing the sword, which on your screen is the turning first, and then the trigger to send the sword data to the server. The serverside hit detection on Classic was originally working out where the player was slashing at using player x/y/dir on serverside only. It was then changed so that the position/diretion was recorded on the client and then sent to the server, so that the server uses the data that was specified.

I think you need to go and spar with default hit detection, because you need to predict your opponents move every single time in nearly every single spar.