That's precisely how I feel about it. He never really screwed it up, he just kind of disappeared for a while.

i hate tyhm as a person but i love him cuz he did never do anything and if you change somthing how can it be classic?

-change is a bad thing-

Well I understand where you're coming from, Tyhm, I believe the Hera Quests were a large part of why Classic lost playercount.

No one wants to quest for hours on end to get enough items to have a decent spar, or to PK.

And when someone does quest, they like to feel like they've accomplished something. Getting a useless hera and being told you need to go collect xx more does not make you feel accomplished, it makes you feel aggravated.

If I wanted to do single player quests, I'd play an offline game.

I must be one of the only ones that liked some of the things Tyhm did. I didn't mind the heras so much and I even liked the races. Though I believed they should of been finished before putting them up. To each their own though...har har

I liked them too.

I've been wanting the Zorbi Bubble back for such a long time, but storm doesn't like the idea of anything that would affect* movement.

The heras were actually fun. Look at other servers at people who have 20 hearts. I thought Thym's quest was brilliant. I do not blame Thym for anything that led to classic's failure in the past, or present. If Thym, and Com were both working on classic, We could get the good quests back, and great quests over bad ones. It seems like in another decade, perhaps Onett castle will be done.

Haha, it isn't a question of who is working, it's a question of who's allowed to work. Ex. I already have a quest tiled, and for at least the offline mode it is scripted (save the final boss and prize that I never bothered working on)

Did I accuse of anyone of not working (Except for storm)?

If we know what the staff is working on, or how fast... we wouldnt have anything to ***** about so I think theyre doing a good job.

Yeah, that's always the problem - everyone's got a quest to put up. And that's great. But nobody's ever content to stop at A Quest - their quest has to give a fullheart, The Lizard Sword (Thank you Antago -_-; ), a new NPCW (Umm, dun look at me, I never scripted a totally useless weapon or three...^^; ), and attempt to "rebalance things". Add to that all the people who intentionally waste the reviewers' time with a clusterfunk of random tiles leading to the goldsword and 9 fullhearts, and those who sneak in a Backdoor NPCW that gives you editor-level powers online, and it's no wonder the LAT, in whatever configuration, puts both hiring and reviewing on the back burner. Which is too bad, as that's really Graal's edge.

Quests should be the last thing the server is worried about.

People want decent levels to look at, things to do, ect.


Honestly, I think Classic would be way better off just going back to how it looked 3-4 years ago, and serving as a memory of old Graal.

Use all this time and dev power on creating new events and such, and fun things to do.

You guys already have a completed server. The first server ever. New overworld and quests won't bring life back to classic, because the classic players are pretty much just the classic players. I'm sure most of them wouldnt mind having real classic back.

I honestly think everyone is looking in the wrong direction for this place.

There are no quests on Classic right now. I honestly don't care what the quest gives. I made it before the server change at Asst. Manager Damien's request and then kept working on it when he said nevermind a few days later. It wouldn't be able to go up immediately because it requires the birdshot/some jumping over those black tiles ability. It could also be vastly improved when I rescript everything for NPC Server/Gscript2/Classes. I really should use an alternative method for keys, switches and opened doors. I do not doubt Master Storm would be able to teach me something nifty there. My quest is really puzzle-puzzle-puzzle... save for a few baddies, which I will have to script since I'm the person scripting baddies. Its tiling isn't mouth gapingly wonderful in its essence, but it has its theme.

I disagree. Classic was never just a pretty place for PKing, at least not in my eyes. PKing is what you did when you ran out of real things to do - once you got Master Li's axe and all the fullhearts that were working at the moment, you went and farmed newbies in Level13. And when they figured out they could stay on the plateau and not die instantly, you found a trainer so you could get up there too. Not that it mattered which way they went, they never knew which way to go.

I suppose it's a matter of perspective - those who've been playing it for a while always view Classic as A place where I should have all the keen PKing gear I've always had and go around killing people without regard to such nuances as morality, fairness, willing participants and hacks - after all, it's more fun to trick a newbie into giving up his invincibility just to hammer him into the ground, they say "WTF?!?" and log off, freeing up valuable bandwidth.

Developers and newbies, naturally, see it differently. Newbies being the future of Graal, quests being Classic's sole foothold (and just more fun to make than another halfway decently tiled PKFest to be ignored for failing to be Level13).

But again - I gave you Graal1998 for PKing, and you didn't like it because the newbies stopped coming.
That should tell you something.

The server held 3 elements really back then

PKing
Sparring
Hanging out/community

Two of three are practically dead there. People only log on because it is where their friends play.


Classic will not be able to attract new players very easy unless:

A) It has simple, easy quests
B) It becomes trial-friendly
C) It has something that makes it different, in a positive way


UN, N-Pulse, and Delteria already are "traditional" graal servers. These servers are, currently, 10x more likely to attract a new player that enjoys that style of server.

Becoming just another UN/Delt/N-Pulse will not give classic a unique advantage over anything. The most likely result of such an action would not be a gaining of new players, but a loss of old ones.

Classic should be Classic. It should play and look as close to Pre-P2P graal as possible.

At the worst, the player count would not change. At the best, older players would be happy again that their server was restored, and new players would be interested in seeing the original server and learning the history.

You're not working with a 100+ player server anymore. The PKing and sparring won't be as popular as the bigger servers. They can't be counted on.

Quests are a one time thing, that most people do not enjoy doing. Normally they are not an attraction to a server. Certainlly not a reason to play a server, if presented in a normal fashion.

What classic has going for it, is its community of people who are very close, and its events.

Throwing some halfassed new levels, quests, and NPCs onto the server will achieve nothing but a destruction of what the servers name is supposed to imply.

I enjoy the irony of your accusing Classic of becoming a UN/Delt/N-Pulse clone.

For the rest of your ramble, I addressed that twice now. G1998. Exact duplicate of Pre P2P Graal. Didn't work. People wanted things to change, or at least the promise of change.
G1998b. Exact duplicate with a LAT. Didn't work either. People wanted it to be the way it was.
But the way it was was a transitionary stage with a familiar community of legends and lots of newbie-slaughtering, and nobody wanted to be a newbie. So how do you recapture that? You don't. You can't do it by eliminating new material, and you can't do it by adding new material.

1998 was much too early of a version to use, with much too little content.


And please point out where I have accused Classic of becoming a clone. I recall saying that becoming similar to them would be a bad choice. That is not the same thing as saying "You've copied something".


Classic is supposed to represent something Classic! To make a whole new server pretty much defeats such purpose,

If people wanted something totally foreign to the server from years back, they would move to a different one. Just because you use a load of old content does not mean it is impossible to add new content as well.

Currently when I log on Classic, I don't feel any connection to years ago. Not just in a community way, but now in a level way too.

What is gained by destroying the server, and making a whole new one?

Storm's personal satisfaction. Duh!

Graal Classic always had plenty to do.

Nice quests, with nice prizes - even when Terras were introduced, at least there were plenty of quests to do.

There was lots of NPCs you needed to collect, i.e. Zorbi Ring.

The community was cool, which always helps.

And it wasn't all about PKing - that was something people did when they no longer had anything to do.
I used to pride myself in being a Saint.

Someone said earlier: Just put the first Graal Classic back online.
Although this isn't possible due to the NPC Server - I think it would be much better to convert the old world over, rather than trying to 'create' something Classic-ish from scratch.

Geeze you guys, my being on Main brings more than enough oldbie-feeling to the server. Infact, I think you guys can't handle all of it. :rolleyes:

Terras?

to get classic good agen we will need a new manager.. and if storm gets fired we will get some lame ass newbie so classic is doomed anyway.

My GC tag/tool is broken.

I think it's safe to say people will never be satisfied so just go on doing what you're doing, Storm, and if it works it works. :cool:

People seem to think you can, by the careful blend of simultaneously uploading and never uploading, bring the oldbies back to Classic who were only there because there was only one server and/or they were trying to get their own levels up.

Something I've learned from my 3 or 4 years (was it more? Who cares) as manager:
Screw the oldbies. No matter what you do, they're going to complain. Oldbies are the past; if they weren't, they'd stop leaving every time you change something. It's harsh, and it's not entirely accurate (there are always a few oldbies who are actually there to check out the changes, who are amused rather than offended by New Things), but as a general statement, if an oldbie complains that you've ruined classic, that only means the day ends in a Y.
Newbies, on the other hand - they're the future. They're tomorrow's oldbies. They're the ones who will judge whether Classic is a server on which to stay or one to forget they wasted so much time on. And Newbies actually can be pandered to by the Levels team, unlike Oldbies, who demand the return of Bruges and Vangel - they want things to do. Not even events, they (as a swarm) want levels with which to get a feel for the game. Sure, they'll run out of quests someday, then they'll hang out with the friends they made during their questing, or perhaps they'll PK either the enemies they made or just everyone they can find for daring to make their life so hard, or perhaps they'll form their own events - like we used to, back in the Real Old Days.
Unofficial "Go when the bomb goes off" spars in rooms that were neither scripted nor designed for it, usually chosen by virtue of their easy access. Even less official "Tour groups" and "Newbie Helpers" from the days before there was a FAQ to ignore you. Races across the map that would or wouldn't be ruined by a hacker based entirely on who happened to be on to wreck it. Scavenger hunts run without the aide of GC tools.

The joke is, if you ignore oldbies whining long enough to waste your time on the "Stupid Newbie Quests", the Newbies will all have around a hundred hours before they've got enough stuff to consider themselves jaded Oldbies, then they can amuse themselves, even without a GC on.

-Tyhm {Tour Guide}

Most of the time, I agree with Tyhm. His version of Classic/Adventure/Main was the best we've had yet. I am, however, less inclined to agree with this.

The problem right now is not that people are trying to cater to oldbies. The problem is that virtually nothing is being done to make the overworld or quests.

According to Storm, this is due to this chain of problems:

The Levels Administrator apparently can't access his computer. Because of this, members of the LAT cannot be hired. The LAT only has one tiler right now. With the exception of GC Devs and people like GrowlZ, not many are doing much for the developement of the server.

The solution is simple:

Remove the Levels Administrator. It's nothing personal, but if he/she can't do his/her job, then don't waste time. Get somebody with experience willing to work. Get a tiling team large enough to make an overworld. Implement the playerworld's actual content in the overworld as it expands.

What Tyhm says may apply eventually, but it doesn't apply yet. The server is not yet at the level where they can even begin that.

4 Tilers; Racil, Exodus, Maximus and Daniel. We had 5, but Moonite has quit due to time constraints and such.

Yeah, that'll do it. A dead LAT Admin can slow things down a lot (that's why I quit).

Heck, I say if Classic's not ready to go by year end, Stefan release the levels (even the stuff I toiled so long and so hard on) and make a contest of it - whoever can put together a working server first gets free hosting and managerial control of it, as clearly they are best suited to running Classic. That'd be a hoot...but he'd never risk the levels and NPCs landing on yet another illegal GServer.

Not that they live long anymore. Ahh, those were the days.

I was told that I wasn't hired as a tiler because I was better as a scripter anyway, and also because I develop for GC. I don't see the sense that I can't work as an LAT and make levels for the entire server and the GCs, rather than being limited to just GC levels (even though I am definitely going to help with scripts, I just won't have any access to them whatsoever).

All but Racil are new. I had not realized you begun to take my advice. Last I had heard, the others were trying to get in, but they were being blocked because of the lack of an active levels admin.