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-   -   Its Time We Take A Stand (https://forums.graalonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57932)

dNeonb 03-05-2005 12:42 AM
On Graal Kingdoms we have a class called "Thief". If we'd make scamming illegal then this class would have nothing to do. For Staffs is scamming illegal. You need to know what people you can truest and who not. Like Lance said this is no GraalOnline's business what people do with their items and what not.

The kingdoms, there players are in can say it is illegal but then they have to do something and not the staff. Scamming is a kind of RP but if noone wants to RP it won't work.

Handle scamming is no job of the Policeguys on GK becasue scamming is legal, and maybe staff cares about it but can not do something because it is illegal.

By the way, if you have a problem with Zero Hour as staffmember of this server then don't talk about it here. Talk to Lance or me in eMail, Forum PM or game PM. Maybe Stefan if you want. But the forum is not the correct place for it.

Lance 03-05-2005 12:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gambet
THIS IS WHAT YOU ALL FAIL TO UNDERSTAND..


All you say is "Its your fault"...well...yes, its there fault, BUT CREATING SOMETHING LIKE I SUGGESTED WOULD END SCAMMING.

Give the players a way to lend items without worrying about being scammed, and the problems will be solved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gambet
If these trading tables were made, then I am 100% sure that those who know about it will in fact use it while lending items. Those who dont, well, its their faults if anything happens.
Which is it?

Gambet 03-05-2005 12:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance
Which is it?

I didnt think it was hard to understand.


What I meant:

Those who use the new trading tables I suggested wouldnt have to worry about being scammed, but those who are scammed because they didnt use it, well, then it would be their faults. I highly doubt anyone would lend anything to anyone without using these trading tables if they were to lend someone their items.


Just make SOME way to be able to lend items without worrying about being scammed.

Zero Hour 03-05-2005 01:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gambet
Just make SOME way to be able to lend items without worrying about being scammed.
That could be handy. Perhaps a type of player trade where the person who has the item specifies a time when the items should be returned to their account, and then it shows the person accepting the items and if they agree to the time they will accept the trade (and the items being traded cannot leave the person's account while they're being loaned). I think that, if GK did this, it would be the only game I know of which has done this.

Gambet 03-05-2005 01:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero Hour
That could be handy. Perhaps a type of player trade where the person who has the item specifies a time when the items should be returned to their account, and then it shows the person accepting the items and if they agree to the time they will accept the trade (and the items being traded cannot leave the person's account while they're being loaned). I think that, if GK did this, it would be the only game I know of which has done this.

Thats EXACTLY what I suggested :\. Read my darn first post.

Zero Hour 03-05-2005 01:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gambet
Thats EXACTLY what I suggested :\. Read my darn first post.
I still think you're a dumby.

csod123 03-05-2005 01:09 AM
most "scamming" is human error. i have been "scammed" before and you don't hear me complaining.

Gambet 03-05-2005 01:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by csod123
most "scamming" is human error. i have been "scammed" before and you don't hear me complaining.

I didnt make this thread to complain about being scammed, because I havnt been. I'm thinking about those who have been scammed.

Kaimetsu 03-05-2005 08:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dNeonb
On Graal Kingdoms we have a class called "Thief". If we'd make scamming illegal then this class would have nothing to do
Yes they would; they could fight monsters and level up just like anybody else. Their class may not be as developed as others, but players should not be made to suffer just because the game's design is incomplete.

Anyway, that argument wouldn't stop us making it illegal for all the other classes. And how many people are actually thieves?

GoZelda 03-05-2005 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dNeonb
On Graal Kingdoms we have a class called "Thief".
On Graal kingdoms we have classes called 'Wizard' and 'Priest'. If magic would be disabled in certain important places these classes would have nothing to do.

Oh, wait.

dNeonb 03-05-2005 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaimetsu
Anyway, that argument wouldn't stop us making it illegal for all the other classes. And how many people are actually thieves?
I have no idea how much thieves there are. And yes, it won't stop making it illegal. But it still is a small reason to keep it legal.
Everyone wants to level up but they used to be thieves because they want to scamm.



But nothing can stop scamming as long as you can drop the stuff on the ground. We added the tradetables and people still didn't use them to trade. They droped their mith, warhammers and other stuff on the ground. So even such a timething that would take to items back won't help. Maybe reduce it but not end it like Gambet said. Every time there will be people who don't use it (see tradetables). Don't tell me now to disallow dropping stuff on the ground, that would just be stupid.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GoZelda
If magic would be disabled in certain important places these classes would have nothing to do.
What do you define as "important places"? The traderooms on Main? No. There you can trade your stuff and it's not there to cast lots of spells and lagg the room where people want to trade.

Kaimetsu 03-05-2005 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dNeonb
nothing can stop scamming as long as you can drop the stuff on the ground
Relevance? How is that an argument for keeping it legal? Should the government also legalise killing people, because it can't be stopped?

And how is it an argument against making additional safeguards?

Sam 03-05-2005 06:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaimetsu
Relevance? How is that an argument for keeping it legal? Should the government also legalise killing people, because it can't be stopped?

And how is it an argument against making additional safeguards?
Scenery in traderoom: Mr. X asks buddy Joe to let him use his HSoD for 10 minutes. Joe agrees and give him his shield by using tradetable.
After 10 minutes Joe asks for his HSoD. Mr.X says: Hey Joe you gave it to me for free! Dont bother me, it´s mine!
This kind of scam happens all days.
Now my question: what shall happen in this case?
I don´t think you believe staff can watch all time all trades and if there are witnesses we need big codes of law, courts, judges and so on.

Learn to be careful and see who is trustworthy, i think thats the easier way to prevent scam.

Gambet 03-05-2005 06:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schlurfy
Scenery in traderoom: Mr. X asks buddy Joe to let him use his HSoD for 10 minutes. Joe agrees and give him his shield by using tradetable.
After 10 minutes Joe asks for his HSoD. Mr.X says: Hey Joe you gave it to me for free! Dont bother me, it´s mine!
This kind of scam happens all days.
Now my question: what shall happen in this case?
I don´t think you believe staff can watch all time all trades and if there are witnesses we need big codes of law, courts, judges and so on.

Learn to be careful and see who is trustworthy, i think thats the easier way to prevent scam.

Did you by any chance read what I suggested? OBVIOUSLY NOT.

WHY THE HECK ARE ALL OF YOU GK STAFF POSTING IN THIS THREAD WITHOUT READING WHAT HAS BEEN SUGGESTED? THIS EXACTLY PROVES WHAT EVERYONE SAYS WHEN THEY SAY THE STAFF JUST DONT CARE ANYMORE.

Geez :\.

GoZelda 03-05-2005 06:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dNeonb
it's not there to cast lots of spells and lagg the room where people want to trade.
But it is their to be, as a mage or priest, harrassed by barbarians who won't allow you to trade if you're in B-mode and can PK the hell out of you because you can't defend yourself?

XGoLink 03-05-2005 07:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoZelda
But it is their to be, as a mage or priest, harrassed by barbarians who won't allow you to trade if you're in B-mode and can PK the hell out of you because you can't defend yourself?
Pking in trade just shouldnt be allowed..

Sam 03-05-2005 07:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gambet
Did you by any chance read what I suggested? OBVIOUSLY NOT.

WHY THE HECK ARE ALL OF YOU GK STAFF POSTING IN THIS THREAD WITHOUT READING WHAT HAS BEEN SUGGESTED? THIS EXACTLY PROVES WHAT EVERYONE SAYS WHEN THEY SAY THE STAFF JUST DONT CARE ANYMORE.

Geez :\.
I directly answered to the quoted thread. Your suggestion was noticed, but I dont think that the game will be written new for that. If you give somebody your stuff, you have to count on that he wont give it back. It is a calculated risk and part of this game. Live with it or not.

Kaimetsu 03-06-2005 01:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schlurfy
Scenery in traderoom: Mr. X asks buddy Joe to let him use his HSoD for 10 minutes. Joe agrees and give him his shield by using tradetable.
After 10 minutes Joe asks for his HSoD. Mr.X says: Hey Joe you gave it to me for free! Dont bother me, it´s mine!
This kind of scam happens all days.
How is this relevant to what I posted?

Crono 03-06-2005 01:43 PM
Thieves should have moves so they can steal items/money from monsters or maybe get a small plat bonus everytime they kill a monster. It's like being a thief on this other superior mmorpg that i cant mention, you dont SCAM people...you just have thief skills to do thief-like things to monsters and be sneaky in pvps.

WanDaMan 03-06-2005 01:44 PM
Graal Kingdoms story line pretty much sucks by the looks of things.

Edit for Crono:

Thieves scamming should be made legal :rolleyes:

Crono 03-06-2005 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WanDaMan
Graal Kingdoms story line
STORYLINE? GRAAL KINGDOMS HAS A STORYLINE?!

Never knew that ;P

Sam 03-06-2005 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaimetsu
How is this relevant to what I posted?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaimetsu
Relevance? How is that an argument for keeping it legal? Should the government also legalise killing people, because it can't be stopped?

And how is it an argument against making additional safeguards?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schlurfy
.....Now my question: what shall happen in this case?
I don´t think you believe staff can watch all time all trades and if there are witnesses we need big codes of law, courts, judges and so on.

Learn to be careful and see who is trustworthy, i think thats the easier way to prevent scam.
You dont see the relevance? I do. But myabe I missunderstood you.

Kaimetsu 03-06-2005 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schlurfy
myabe I missunderstood you.
Presumably.

Lance 03-06-2005 08:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gambet
Did you by any chance read what I suggested? OBVIOUSLY NOT.

WHY THE HECK ARE ALL OF YOU GK STAFF POSTING IN THIS THREAD WITHOUT READING WHAT HAS BEEN SUGGESTED? THIS EXACTLY PROVES WHAT EVERYONE SAYS WHEN THEY SAY THE STAFF JUST DONT CARE ANYMORE.

Geez :\.
Well, I can claim that this exactly proves that your ancestry consists primarily of farm animals, but I do not think either claim has much merit to it.

Also, I fear there may be something wrong with your caps lock key.

Gambet 03-06-2005 08:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance
Well, I can claim that this exactly proves that your ancestry consists primarily of farm animals, but I do not think either claim has much merit to it.

Also, I fear there may be something wrong with your caps lock key.


Zero Hour never read what I suggested, neither did Sam, and they're both ramblind about things and they dont even know what has been said in this thread. That gives me enough reason to say what I did. Go make fun of my ancestors in some other thread.

Zero Hour 03-06-2005 08:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gambet
Zero Hour never read what I suggested, neither did Sam, and they're both ramblind about things and they dont even know what has been said in this thread. That gives me enough reason to say what I did. Go make fun of my ancestors in some other thread.
Gambet, if you continue ignoring the clearifications I've made someone may hold your head under water; I've only commented on scamming - not on what you had to say.

SyLaTAC 03-11-2005 04:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero Hour
Honestly.
HAHAHA thats funny ohhhhh the only people i would trust my items with is Fr0 and Drk and thats it

SyLaTAC 03-11-2005 04:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance
Do I have to know how "things have changed player wise"? Don't loan stuff to untrustworthy people. It's simple. I can't help it if people fail to make appropriate judgements of others.



It certainly is not GraalOnline's business to control what people do with their items (as long as they are following the rules).



Yes, I did. I thought I made that blatantly obvious when I noted that the idea of server-controlled loans is reasonably laughable.



There are several possibilities; I shall note the simplest - if your system was implemented but not used, it would actually be quite likely.



Then you suck at judging people. And you're right, it is quite sad.



That person was not really your best friend, now were they?



Perhaps in your circle of people who suck at judging others and picking friends, but this is hardly an epidemic.



They should perhaps instead revise their criteria for selecting friends.


k lance let me borrow you kite shield ill give it back trust me =)


the only good global staff was PS milinko or how ever you spell it and Bjorn ZH sucks cuz hes mean to everyone and i hope somethings happen to him IRL
Lance doesnt know GK and should event off his items since he never plays anymore

SyLaTAC 03-11-2005 05:04 AM
Im posting as i am reading this Gambet it right i like his idea but the player should be replaced by a NPC and before you trade it will tell you how long you are trading for so someone doesnt get there items back in a year ZH should be fired

and why dont people like seeing horses on the table i find it reallllllllly funny lol

Zero Hour 03-11-2005 07:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SyLaTAC
ZH should be fired
Quote:
Originally Posted by SyLaTAC
and why dont people like seeing horses on the table i find it reallllllllly funny lol
Read these two quotes from SyLaTaC's post. Consider what I deal with daily. Consider what Stefan deals with daily; I pitty that man.

SyLaTAC 03-11-2005 07:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero Hour
Read these two quotes from SyLaTaC's post. Consider what I deal with daily. Consider what Stefan deals with daily; I pitty that man.



eh i have to agree it must somewhat suck to be Stefan

SyLaTAC 03-11-2005 07:40 AM
but Lance let me borrow your Kite shield ill give it back im your friend

Zero Hour 03-11-2005 07:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SyLaTAC
but Lance let me borrow your Kite shield ill give it back im your friend
Stop double posting, and being stupid.

Lance 03-12-2005 08:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SyLaTAC
k lance let me borrow you kite shield ill give it back trust me =)
It's fairly obvious that you intend to scam me. Maybe this intensely witty trick would work on you, but I'm afraid that I'm nowhere near as gullible (or stupid).

Quote:
the only good global staff was PS milinko or how ever you spell it and Bjorn
ZH sucks cuz hes mean to everyone and i hope somethings happen to him IRL
Oh, me too! I hope he wins the lottery. I think that would be nice.

Quote:
Lance doesnt know GK
Wait just a minute, buddy. I've got ~2,000 hours there and served as one of the only two staff members there for an inordinately long amount of time, but I "don't know it"? You're sure I haven't picked anything up in all of that time?

Quote:
and should event off his items since he never plays anymore
How is not playing often at all justification for eventing off items?

Zero Hour 03-12-2005 08:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance
Oh, me too! I hope he wins the lottery. I think that would be nice.
Thanks, that would be nice.

Dach 03-12-2005 08:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SyLaTAC
Im posting as i am reading this Gambet it right i like his idea but the player should be replaced by a NPC and before you trade it will tell you how long you are trading for so someone doesnt get there items back in a year ZH should be fired

and why dont people like seeing horses on the table i find it reallllllllly funny lol
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sentence



Why are you people lending stuff anyways? Just don't lend crap that you don't want to lose.

fireedragn 03-14-2005 04:32 AM
Why the HELL are you asking the staff to waste time on implementing something that has already been addressed. Since the introduction of safe trade tables, it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to steal items directly.

Here's a good way to make sure that somebody won't steal your stuff: ask them to give you some items of the same value as the item you lent them. Then, if they do decide to dip out, you wont be completely screwed. If they don't agree to your proposal, then you know they aren't trustworthy.

I can't believe everyone is still talking about this. I mean...you GAVE the item to them, why should staff be held responsible for your stupidity? Next you'll be asking the staff to take away monsters' ability to attack. "OMG the monster killed me when I ran up to it!"

If you get scammed, it's your own damn fault. Deal with it.

Gambet 03-14-2005 04:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fireedragn
Why the HELL are you asking the staff to waste time on implementing something that has already been addressed. Since the introduction of safe trade tables, it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to steal items directly.

Here's a good way to make sure that somebody won't steal your stuff: ask them to give you some items of the same value as the item you lent them. Then, if they do decide to dip out, you wont be completely screwed. If they don't agree to your proposal, then you know they aren't trustworthy.

I can't believe everyone is still talking about this. I mean...you GAVE the item to them, why should staff be held responsible for your stupidity? Next you'll be asking the staff to take away monsters' ability to attack. "OMG the monster killed me when I ran up to it!"

If you get scammed, it's your own damn fault. Deal with it.

I'm starting to think you cant read. Let me say this loud and clearly

I DID NOT GET SCAMMED, I AM THINKING OF THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN SCAMMED.

Chris 03-14-2005 04:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gambet
I'm starting to think you cant read. Let me say this loud and clearly

I DID NOT GET SCAMMED, I AM THINKING OF THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN SCAMMED.
He brings up a good point though.

If you are going to lend out your items you should ask for collateral until the items are returned.

Zero Hour 03-14-2005 09:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
He brings up a good point though.

If you are going to lend out your items you should ask for collateral until the items are returned.
I can't believe I failed to mention that; I hardly ever practice lending, but when I did I would do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fireedragn
Stuff
You're beautiful; Hold me.


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