a new start

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Tyhm

1) there was no default system

Err... what?

Originally Posted by Tyhm

2) the "defaults" didn't work online

UN has never had a problem with defaults working online. Eventually things did break down, but as you can see, UN is still up and running on the default system.

Originally Posted by Tyhm

3) it sure seemed there never Would be a "defaults", and even if there were Classic wouldn't be given access to it.

I believe Thor was given numbers to some specific defaults, but I don't believe he used them.

Originally Posted by Tyhm

bonus points if you can tell me where ordinary mortals can look up function onActionGrabbed(){;...);

It used to be documented in newfeatures. Nowadays you can usually search the wiki and find it. Not as easy, I suppose, but it's there.

[-Ramirez-]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

It's been around for a long, long time. Before GS2. I believe they were introduced a little after triggeractions were.

It appears that at least the "actionpush" and "actionpull" flags did exist, but I've found no evidence for "actiongrab". Either I never modified/used a script that used those two flags or I just plain forgot. There's still no reason to assume that "actiongrab" exists, for me.

Then it shouldn't. If I can look at something and not see why it can't be done with the default(script-wise), then I see no reason why it needs to be custom.

You're assuming that you're considering everything there is to consider, and that's not always the case.

Anyway, redoing the default systems REALLY isn't that difficult. I've done it twice in the past, although in an incomplete way. The issue was just that it has always been done with the whole "security" aspect in mind, and not just by me. It seems stupid to go to the trouble to make a lot of things work with the default system when you could just make your own, fully customizable system, then do the same work afterward to make the rest work with the new, superior one. The choice is obvious, but either way, it's different from what's currently implemented.

[DustyPorViva]

[QUOTE=-Ramirez-;1465576]It appears that at least the "actionpush" and "actionpull" flags did exist, but I've found no evidence for "actiongrab". Either I never modified/used a script that used those two flags or I just plain forgot. There's still no reason to assume that "actiongrab" exists, for me.
[quote]
Ah yes, no onactiongrab... but easily replicated. Era did it for a very long time before converting over to a custom system.

Originally Posted by -Ramirez-

You're assuming that you're considering everything there is to consider, and that's not always the case.

Anyway, redoing the default systems REALLY isn't that difficult. I've done it twice in the past, although in an incomplete way. The issue was just that it has always been done with the whole "security" aspect in mind, and not just by me. It seems stupid to go to the trouble to make a lot of things work with the default system when you could just make your own, fully customizable system, then do the same work afterward to make the rest work with the new, superior one. The choice is obvious, but either way, it's different from what's currently implemented.

The problem is I really never have seen enough reason to reinvent the wheel. Classic is basically trying to rescript to make it exactly like the default, but for little benefit. Like I said, security is not that big of a deal. I'd just rather see work go into more important things than always having to fix or tweek the custom systems.

[-Ramirez-]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

The problem is I really never have seen enough reason to reinvent the wheel. Classic is basically trying to rescript to make it exactly like the default, but for little benefit.

I can't particularly say that I have either, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done, or that it's even stupid to do. There is such a HUGE volume of old content that it's impossible to try to consider exactly what's needed. Just having something that you KNOW would suit every need is ideal, and is what I always personally strived for.
You said that it's "for little benefit", but how can you know? You don't know what's coming.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by -Ramirez-

I can't particularly say that I have either, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done, or that it's even stupid to do. There is such a HUGE volume of old content that it's impossible to try to consider exactly what's needed. Just having something that you KNOW would suit every need is ideal, and is what I always personally strived for.
You said that it's "for little benefit", but how can you know? You don't know what's coming.

I stand by what I said regardless. Classic has been using custom systems since it adapted the NPC server and none of shown anything that justified using a custom system. It's been years, I don't care what's coming.

[-Ramirez-]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

It's been years, I don't care what's coming.

You're obviously very clueless about the history of the server.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by -Ramirez-

You're obviously very clueless about the history of the server.

Really? Prove to me otherwise about what has been going on that takes true advantage of a custom system.

[-Ramirez-]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Prove to me otherwise about what has been going on that takes true advantage of a custom system.

It's not about what has been made to show that one is beneficial, it's about the simple fact that not enough has ever been made to show this. Trying to claim that it is or isn't appropriate is unsupportable.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by -Ramirez-

It's not about what has been made to show that one is beneficial, it's about the simple fact that not enough has ever been made to show this. Trying to claim that it is or isn't appropriate is unsupportable.

I'm really not following anywhere you're trying to go with this. Classic has had the NPC server for a few years and all they have done is release custom system after custom system. There are quests and such that have been worked on, minor things like the map and all... but none justify the need to have a custom system over the default one. I don't care what's 'to come' because they have given me no reason to care, or even to believe there is anything big coming or such.

[-Ramirez-]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

There are quests and such that have been worked on, minor things like the map and all... but none justify the need to have a custom system over the default one. I don't care what's 'to come' because they have given me no reason to care, or even to believe there is anything big coming or such.

That's the point. What exists so far may not justify the need, but even if it doesn't, that doesn't mean it WON'T be justified. You saying that it definitively is NOT needed is invalid, because you cannot know yet.

This has strayed off topic, so I'm going to stop, even if you don't. For you to learn here: choose words more carefully.

[Crono]

Kat I can bet you this custom system is definitely NOT needed. How many years would you like to wait until I win?

[DarkCloud_PK]

There would need to be something ridiculously epic to come out of these custom systems to ever justify needing them. After being such a large component for classic's continuing failure, that would take a lot to justify them.

I don't really see that realistically coming about, not after the 4-5 year track record.

[Tyhm]

it sucks that you need to do this much work to, basically, carry a chicken outside of a level. :-P

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by -Ramirez-

That's the point. What exists so far may not justify the need, but even if it doesn't, that doesn't mean it WON'T be justified. You saying that it definitively is NOT needed is invalid, because you cannot know yet.

This has strayed off topic, so I'm going to stop, even if you don't. For you to learn here: choose words more carefully.

Nothing you said here has changed my mind. There's nothing for me to learn.