Graal 'Classic' 3D (picture heavy) - Page 12

RegretZ · #**166** 01-06-2011, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

This is kind of close-minded I think. I'm no fan of Graal's past endeavors in 3D AT ALL, but to say "graal isn't 3D" isn't really true. Mario, Zelda and so were not 3D before either, but then the N64 changed that.

I agree. All of those games PROGRESSED. And at the moment, Graal isn't really progressing much. Not saying we need to change everything, but a small endeavor into 3D, even in the style pokemon does it, would be worth a try. People are always resistant to change, but sometimes we have to see what it's like, y'know?

xXziroXx · #**167** 01-06-2011, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

This is kind of close-minded I think. I'm no fan of Graal's past endeavors in 3D AT ALL, but to say "graal isn't 3D" isn't really true. Mario, Zelda and so were not 3D before either, but then the N64 changed that.

Those games didn't have their players develop content or buy their own servers though. A 3D Graal would only split up the community and kill one or the other, probably the 2D one.

DustyPorViva · #**168** 01-06-2011, 10:37 PM

This isn't to say Graal CAN do 3D well, or that it would be worth the time(and I don't think it is). But to say that Graal is strictly 2D I just don't think is true. Everything has the potential to improve and explore other things, it's just a matter of whether it's worth it, and the quality put into it. Sonic is just one of those games that never did 3D very well, for example.

DustyPorViva · #**169** 01-06-2011, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

Those games didn't have their players develop content or buy their own servers though. A 3D Graal would only split up the community and kill one or the other, probably the 2D one.

Basing anything on an existing community like Graal is going to be a failure. In that light, making a new server "isn't Graal." In this case you're saying it will fail because of Graal's current situation. That doesn't mean "Graal is 2D" though. This is the same type of attitude when people say, "Graal is Zelda, not guns!" it just irks me.

xXziroXx · #**170** 01-06-2011, 10:51 PM

All I'm saying is that a Graal 3D would kill current Graal due to splitting up developers, and Graal is short on those as it is.

RegretZ · #**171** 01-06-2011, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

All I'm saying is that a Graal 3D would kill current Graal due to splitting up developers, and Graal is short on those as it is.

Well you know that could change if the developers around here weren't so harsh and unwilling to teach aspiring developers. I hate seeing new developers trying to struggle through material and teach themselves while people could be helping, but instead sit on the side and watch. It doesn't even need to be a lot. Maybe 30 minutes a day to help a new person. But the end result would be very noticeable. As they say, if everyone puts even a drop in the bucket, we can fill it together.

xXziroXx · #**172** 01-06-2011, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RegretZ

Well you know that could change if the developers around here weren't so harsh and unwilling to teach aspiring developers. I hate seeing new developers trying to struggle through material and teach themselves while people could be helping, but instead sit on the side and watch. It doesn't even need to be a lot. Maybe 30 minutes a day to help a new person. But the end result would be very noticeable. As they say, if everyone puts even a drop in the bucket, we can fill it together.

Testbed. Besides, learning by doing is a lot more efficient, and when you encounter an error there's plenty of people to ask for help on how to proceed.

DustyPorViva · #**173** 01-06-2011, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

All I'm saying is that a Graal 3D would kill current Graal due to splitting up developers, and Graal is short on those as it is.

Ah, so your main concern is that Graal should stay 2D because it would be wasted effort pursuing otherwise. I agree, like I said I strongly disagreed with their attempt at 3D. I just didn't agree with your assertion that Graal is 2D, as that gives the impression that Graal doing anything else would make it "not Graal," which I find as silly as the people that say Graal can't be anything other than a Zelda-esque server, when scripting clearly allows much more.

RegretZ · #**174** 01-06-2011, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

Testbed. Besides, learning by doing is a lot more efficient, and when you encounter an error there's plenty of people to ask for help on how to proceed.

Yes but not everyone is able to teach themselves. Not all the tutorials are that good either. Sure, you can ask people once you have a vague idea of what you're doing, but getting started intimidates a lot of people more than anything else.

DustyPorViva · #**175** 01-06-2011, 11:01 PM

Graal is not the kind of place you're going to do well in if you can't dip your feet in and learn from mistakes. Is this a fault of Graal? Probably, but what can I say. Documentation is poor, help is limited and because of this, the handful of scripters get tired of dealing with the same questions over and over. ESPECIALLY when the person doesn't seem willing to experiment and learn on their own. This isn't like a programming or other popular game engine where you have a wiki being edited by a hundred or so people proficient. There are just a few people that bother with the wiki(it doesn't help you need a gold subscription), and they do it on their free time.

cyan3 · #**176** 01-06-2011, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RegretZ

Yes but not everyone is able to teach themselves. Not all the tutorials are that good either. Sure, you can ask people once you have a vague idea of what you're doing, but getting started intimidates a lot of people more than anything else.

If somebody isn't able to teach themselves anything about development, then they likely wouldn't progress very far. A prime example of this would be in scripting because it can't be taught without coding your own systems.

Edit: I guess what I'm trying to say is that you can be taught how variables work or what loops do but until you start coding with them you won't fully understand how to script.

WhiteDragon · #**177** 01-06-2011, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RegretZ

Well you know that could change if the developers around here weren't so harsh and unwilling to teach aspiring developers. I hate seeing new developers trying to struggle through material and teach themselves while people could be helping, but instead sit on the side and watch.

I think this is an exaggeration, or even completely false. Almost every single Graal developer I know would be willing to help someone out as long as that person is looking to actually improve their skills, rather than just trying to glue stuff together or whatever.

In fact, the scripting forums have been extremely awesome for weeks now. Everyone gets a good response almost right after they post, as long as the question wasn't "can you make me a car script" or whatever.

The real problem is that the resources we do have are extremely hard to find, and impossible to use for many people. You can't post on the forums without paying for an account; the Graal wiki is pretty hidden; the Testbed server is also pretty hidden and, again, requires $$$ for an account.

I think a button on Login for "looking to create your own world?" which sends you to an observer-mode-disabled RC-for-anyone Testbed and links you to the relevant stuff (forums, dev wiki, etc.), would go an extremely long way in encouraging new developers. Also, perhaps more boldly, open up the forums or certain sections of the forums to anyone using it -- a place for discussion is very important to people trying to learn.

MattKan · #**178** 01-07-2011, 01:41 AM

I think that a Graal 3D project would be welcomed. No, it wouldn't be all of Graal, no it wouldn't/shouldn't be more than one server (at least for along time, but yes, it would be extremely cool

Edit:
No, this should not be for iPhone, Yes, this should be for PC

cbk1994 · #**179** 01-07-2011, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattKan

I think that a Graal 3D project would be welcomed. No, it wouldn't be all of Graal, no it wouldn't/shouldn't be more than one server (at least for along time, but yes, it would be extremely cool

Edit:
No, this should not be for iPhone, Yes, this should be for PC

Why? Graal is never going to be able to compete with all the other 3D games. The only thing Graal as a game has going for it right now is its relative uniqueness.

Redwiz · #**180** 01-10-2011, 05:10 PM

To say Graal must not be 3D and is good as 2D and there is too much competition is quite silly. Graal does have a relative uniqueness, but the main issue with Graals progress has been that new projects have always been on the horizon taking up more time than the current ones that are already out. When these projects are released, older ones are then left to be managed by player staff (some of whom can't manage things well).

The MMORPG market is populated by many games, many good many bad, but they are mostly the same. Graals relative uniqueness translated into 3D may make it more worthy of peoples money, even if it can not hope to compete with the much larger fish in the pond. If you disagree with me that's fine, just don't flame me.

The graphics are great, I think they look very good. Would be interesting to see how the players or baddies would look.