4 Years of being stagnant - Page 15

BlackSolider · #**211** 02-26-2009, 01:45 AM

The people asked for it. They got what they want. How can you complain about it then?

Indeed there will be.

I can tell the two apart. I simply see a lot more bashing than rational. "Oh this HD isn't what I thought it was gonna be. YOU SUCK THOR" etc etc.

DustyPorViva · #**212** 02-26-2009, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

The people asked for it. They got what they want. How can you complain about it then?

Indeed there will be.

I can tell the two apart. I simply see a lot more bashing than rational. "Oh this HD isn't what I thought it was gonna be. YOU SUCK THOR" etc etc.

You're not grasping it. It's akin to eating dirt, and asking for something better and getting sand. People assumed when they asked for clientside HD, it would be better HD. Now they didn't assume wrongly, because clientside HD can be a lot better than what is currently up(it can be made to replicate the default HD).

The problem is, it's not what people hoped it was gonna be. Just because Thor worked hard on it is no reason to settle for shoddy HD. Sorry, but that's not how development works.

BlackSolider · #**213** 02-26-2009, 02:38 AM

HDs and their capabilities are beyond me. The people asked for clientside, they got clientside. If they don't like it, well then thats their problem.

One year as a kid I asked for a red power ranger toy for xmas. I got a blue one. Did I *****? Of course. I was young. Now adays, I try to be appreciative of what I get. My parents tried to get a red one but couldn't. I still got a damn power ranger toy. I should have been happy, even though the blue one wasn't as cool.

For comparison, the classicians asked for clientside HD. Thor got em one. Maybe it wasn't exactly what they were hoping for. But they still asked for it. Maybe they should be appreciative the Dev team actually listened to the people and attempted to please them. Obviously it didn't work out like everyone had hoped, but hey, he tried.

As long as thor did his best, I won't ***** about it. I dislike the HD and have stated so several times, but I'm not gonna spam hatred for something he put effort in to.

Rufus · #**214** 02-26-2009, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

HDs and their capabilities are beyond me. The people asked for clientside, they got clientside. If they don't like it, well then thats their problem.

One year as a kid I asked for a red power ranger toy for xmas. I got a blue one. Did I *****? Of course. I was young. Now adays, I try to be appreciative of what I get. My parents tried to get a red one but couldn't. I still got a damn power ranger toy. I should have been happy, even though the blue one wasn't as cool.

For comparison, the classicians asked for clientside HD. Thor got em one. Maybe it wasn't exactly what they were hoping for. But they still asked for it. Maybe they should be appreciative the Dev team actually listened to the people and attempted to please them. Obviously it didn't work out like everyone had hoped, but hey, he tried.

As long as thor did his best, I won't ***** about it. I dislike the HD and have stated so several times, but I'm not gonna spam hatred for something he put effort in to.

When you settle for less, or in this case something completely different from what you asked for, then you are leading the server into a false sense of accomplishment and security. Nothing will improve unless you voice your true opinions on something, regardless of how much effort someone placed into it. I don't think that I have seen anyone really boast hatred, though some opinions were expressed more harshly than others. Sometimes being harsh is needed though, especially if the person believes that there isn't actually an issue when there clearly is and everyone is saying it.

BlackSolider · #**215** 02-26-2009, 02:49 AM

So we're going to overlook the fact that Thor complied with the people's wishes just b/c it wasn't exactly what they hoped for?

Were people expecting a flawless hd?

Really, what was everyone expecting?

DustyPorViva · #**216** 02-26-2009, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

So we're going to overlook the fact that Thor complied with the people's wishes just b/c it wasn't exactly what they hoped for?

Were people expecting a flawless hd?

Really, what was everyone expecting?

I give up.

BlackSolider · #**217** 02-26-2009, 03:46 AM

Good because this was going in circles.

I see your point dawg. I was nothing but the best for classic. But you can't expect a perfect HD since there is no such thing.

xnervNATx · #**218** 02-26-2009, 03:49 AM

mix them together

DustyPorViva · #**219** 02-26-2009, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

Good because this was going in circles.

I see your point dawg. I was nothing but the best for classic. But you can't expect a perfect HD since there is no such thing.

We can't(or shouldn't) expect perfection, but we can expect something better. Apparently this is even worse off than the serverside, so there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting something better. We shouldn't have to apply 'well he worked hard so I guess I can deal with it' logic. That is not how development works. I, as a developer, wouldn't want people to patronize me.

Crono · #**220** 02-26-2009, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xnervNATx

mix them together

...what?

BlackSolider · #**221** 02-26-2009, 04:50 AM

As a dev (or a GC) I would simply want people to actually appreciate the effort I put in, rather than never be satisfied.

Honestly choosing between serverside and clientside is like picking your poison:
with serverside, you get reached hit occasionally.
with clientside, your hits don't always count.

The change to clientside pretty much solved the reach problem (I believe this was the main reason people wanted it changed), but introduced a new problem that people hadn't considered/known about.

So thor solved one problem, only to introduce another. People complain about the new problem but forget about the old being gone. I do believe that was the reason it was changed in the first place.

DustyPorViva · #**222** 02-26-2009, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

As a dev (or a GC) I would simply want people to actually appreciate the effort I put in, rather than never be satisfied.

Motivation is indeed a good thing when you're a dev, but praise and no criticism is only going to stifle any developer. You need to know your flaws and you need to know when you make flaws, or else you will never learn. I, personally, prefer learning and advancing myself rather than to be showered is praise just to be praised.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

with serverside, you get reached hit occasionally.
with clientside, your hits don't always count.

That's not how it works, and hence the problem. It can be better.

BlackSolider · #**223** 02-26-2009, 05:48 AM

But what HD is better?

Rufus · #**224** 02-26-2009, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

But what HD is better?

Whichever satisfies the majority of the current playerbase, while having openings for potential new players.

WhiteDragon · #**225** 02-26-2009, 05:56 AM

Since it looks as some people are unclear as to what the technical limitations of the HD are I'll explain briefly.

There are essentially three paradigms one can take when designing an HD:
Say we have player1, player2, and the server.
1. When player1 slashes, player1 looks at his screen and sees it hits player2, so player2 is hit. (always fair to the hitter)
2. When player1 slashes, player2 looks at his screen and sees he was hit by player1, so player2 is hit. (always fair to the person getting hit)
3. The server calculates if player1 hit player2 based on their serverside positions. (can look wrong to both players sometimes)

Previously, with the serverside HD we had number 3, and now with the clientside HD we have a mix of 1 and 2.
The fact that we're mixing them is the reason why some hits aren't counted. They aren't counted if the difference between the screen of the person hitting and the person getting hit is too large (to prevent reach hits and exploitation by laggers).

The difference between our clientside HD and the default HD is just the way information is transfered between the two clients and how the players are detected. What Kat is doing now is making a new clientside HD which acts more like the default.