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Old 08-20-2009, 12:48 AM
Bell Bell is offline
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Originally Posted by Crono View Post
Depends on how involved Stefan and/or unixmad want to get. Although it could have good intentions, it seems like a form of cheap labour.
This was not Stefan's idea, this was proposed solely by the PWA and at this point is not fully supported by him. Its in response to many of the complaints we see on the forums about how there is a lack of participation by the global community in improving the overall quality of Graal itself. In the beginning there will be little involvement by them as we intend to start small, prove its worth then expand as needed.

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Originally Posted by papajchris View Post
well first off, this idea if works, could and would help many servers get further in the path to classic.
I think you may be misinterpreting its purpose. This team is not to develop for server renters. Its to supply things such as scripts or gani's that can be used globally. But at the same time if a private server is having an issue that none of their staff can resolve they have a team to go to in order to ask for some additional help.

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Originally Posted by MysticX2X View Post
I have to agree with Crono on this being a form of cheap labor.

I don't see many benefits at all since people can/already do many of the things this possible team is aiming for. Especially when not given Global RC.
Did we not all begin developing for Graal because it was interesting and enjoyable for us? I won't go off on a tangent here as this is going to be a large enough wall of text but have you all forgotten why you came here in the first place and stayed? You said it yourself, you do not need global rc to help servers but if you are a subdivision of the PWA the server renters can be more secure in the knowledge that their server plans will remain within their own server.

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Originally Posted by Vman13x View Post
I agree with zeus, but I dont think it will work, like vimes said they could just go to testbed, and maybe testbed can be moved to the hosted section, so everyone can see it? As a discription it could say classic enabled, ect, sorry for getting off topic lol.
Tig could request this as well.

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Originally Posted by alexandralove View Post
From my point of view, currenly a Global Development Team would be best to replace GST.

Basically, it would help on anything right ? It could possibly work, but like Chris said it would ruin some of the development process.
When you rent a playerworld, it's actually your job to develop it, so if a team was already ready to dedicate time for it, it would just screw everything up. That team would actually need to be really good I guess ? For most new people renting out a server and having projects, don't you think that it would be kind of "unfair" for new and growing developers?

"Global Documentation Team" would be better I guess. Could just be a "moving" wiki, and people needing help would ask members of that team for their current knowledge.
It will be replacing GST as well and putting in the addition of the other teams that keep privately asking Stefan to be reformed. it would just be a single entity instead of several.

I was intentionally vague about what the duties would be. Stefan just requested that they be involved in keeping the wiki up to date as well. I don't see how it would be unfair to new developers to have the addition of the team. They would still be free to develop at their own pace in their own way but would have the benefit of a place to go to if they really got stuck.

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Originally Posted by Mykel View Post
So, you're going to take some of the best developers? This is a game that is starving for good developers and original content, and your "main purpose" is going to have nothing to do with development?
No, they are still free to develop wherever they wish on their own time.

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Originally Posted by Rufus View Post
I think Bell means that the Playerworld Administration and Global Scripting Teams have lost their intended purposes and have deteriorated into checking servers for copyright infringing content, cross-server content theft, and solving staff problems.
Yes, that is what I meant

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Originally Posted by Twinny View Post
And if you have the ego to go with it. It's unfortunate but alot of staff members have the main goal of gaining more, 'power' while furthering their own needs. The best way to entice younger scripters (and maybe other development branches) is with the promise of power.

Older scripters generally become apathetic to the situation and slowly branch of to other sources of coding.
I don't want people that are in it for power, I want people that are doing it because they enjoy it.

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Originally Posted by pooper200000 View Post
Would this be a better project if you didn't have the word global in it?
No

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Originally Posted by WhiteDragon View Post
Why not do something like Stack Overflow (google it) where everyone is rewarded on a case-by-case basis and more help gives you a higher spot on a list.

That way it encourages all developers to contribute, and encourages people to continue contributing. This is in contrast with something like the GDT where there are only a few members, the members can go inactive, and the members do not have any incentive to contribute after they gain the tag.

However, a solution like that has other problems like Participation Inequality (read the article by Jakob Nielsen) and the quality of the help provided.

Regardless, if you are just creating a team that goes around and helps people and doesn't get any reward from it, I believe a "competition"-style system like that would work better.
Something like that is always possible in the future but at this point we still have to prove that the people will actually stay involved and not do what normally happens. Get the job then do minimal work just to keep the title.

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Originally Posted by Mark Sir Link View Post
I wouldn't be adverse to making GUI related scripts that could be easily implemented by most servers.
This would be its purpose. I'm glad I didn't confuse someone.

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Originally Posted by WanDaMan View Post
If you need any tutorials creating in regards to GMAP's send me a forum PM and I'll do my best to help!
Would definitely be helpful. As most of you know, I am not a developer but I've probably fixed more gmaps in the past 3 years than I care to remember. If a server owner can't bother to take the time to watch a video then I seriously doubt his desire to make a successful server.

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Originally Posted by Inverness View Post

Inspiration is what is necessary to fuel my scripting, not money or promise of power. Stefan has not done alot to inspire me to put time and effort into Graal. I have made a great deal of simple feature requests that have fallen on deaf ears and I'm just tired of it.

If Stefan could do more to show me that Graal actually might have a future I will be interested in joining this Global Development Team with or without a global RC, simply because I enjoy coding.
So do something about it. Join the team and prove its a valuable addition. Just as a picture is worth a thousand words. Seeing a concept working on an active server is worth more than trying to explain to someone that it would work.
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Old 08-20-2009, 12:49 AM
Bell Bell is offline
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Originally Posted by Spark910 View Post
I think the title will imply something that it's not. Furthermore, as a general rule taking talented people (in terms of development) and giving them non-development tasks and duties only limits the time they are able to develop - a generally negative thing for Graal.

What I thought the team would do (from the job title, before reading the description) would be to make content for a server. This I would suggest with all my heart, as there needs to be a new classic playerworld in my opinion to set a quality benchmark to motivate current classic and development servers to up the ante and start producing a lot of new content to keep current players entertained and attract/retain new ones.

Therefore, considering the above will not happen as I believe there is generally zero support for a new classic world from the powers that be, at least I would request the two roles of this proposed team are separated, so that someone who knows about the general Graal systems without too much skill/creativity/motivation to make them for real worlds is given the task of updating the wiki rather than distracting talented individuals (also not sure where current global staff are not able or are underqualified to update the wiki?)
The title is correct. In addition to the things listed, if they felt the desire to enter into such a project such as GraalOlympics or a single new server. They could do that as well. I just would like this to get off the ground without grand illusions of miracle changes within its first weeks.

We are not taking talented people and asking them to do non development tasks. We are asking them to document what they do. This in itself makes their work easier to understand by people with lesser knowledge.

The current global team is too small to do all of this ourselves. Two of us are not qualified as far as I'm concerned, myself included. I'm pretty sure if I edit the wiki, Graal will explode into a million insane gremlins that will eat the intraweb from the inside out. Skyld and Tig are already trying to update the wiki whenever they have spare time and TSA is semi qualified.



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Originally Posted by Gambet View Post
This is quite a bad idea and really won't go anywhere. The responsibilites listed are all currently things that forum members do anyways, and the questions that the team would answer are currently being asked and mostly answered on the forums themselves. The players already update the wiki when they feel like doing it, and development questions are answered pretty quickly on the forums (at least we do a good job of it in the scripting section).
As I said before, the list is not complete. It was only a suggested plan to implement. We came to the forum group to get additional ideas of what could or should be done. Unfortunately not everyone comes to the forums but usually the most talented group does, which is why we started here. There have been suggestions for a long time now of developing a new high quality server but thats as far as it goes. The majority of you either refuse to work together on the same server or don't actively wish to be involved in it yourself.

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Originally Posted by Switch View Post
This team could be put together by anyone via Guild CP. See my image, it's exactly what the GDT, as explained, would be.
No it couldn't, this would be in special guilds that is run by a global administrator that will be chosen when the team is properly formed.
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Old 08-20-2009, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Bell View Post
The majority of you either refuse to work together on the same server or don't actively wish to be involved in it yourself.
I think the majority of people are simply already committed to something. Though, just as well, a surprising amount of people that are talented developers post, but do not even really play graal anymore.


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Originally Posted by Bell View Post
The current global team is too small to do all of this ourselves. Two of us are not qualified as far as I'm concerned, myself included. I'm pretty sure if I edit the wiki, Graal will explode into a million insane gremlins that will eat the intraweb from the inside out. Skyld and Tig are already trying to update the wiki whenever they have spare time and TSA is semi qualified.
And the ever so quiet Xor?
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Old 08-20-2009, 01:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Switch View Post
It doesn't necessarily need to be called a "Global Development Team", for example there's this one: http://graalonline.com/guilds/viewgu...ll=0&view=info
"First of all i watn to..."

from the guild description. I seriously doubt this guy can participate in any kind of development project.
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Old 08-20-2009, 08:49 PM
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Too tired to read 4 pages after Bell and Chris's replies to me.

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Originally Posted by Bell View Post
No it couldn't, this would be in special guilds that is run by a global administrator that will be chosen when the team is properly formed.
The only difference I see is that it will be in the Special Guilds section.
Anyone could make a guild called "Graal Developers" with a "mission" of helping any server in need of help.

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Originally Posted by cbk1994 View Post
"First of all i watn to..."

from the guild description. I seriously doubt this guy can participate in any kind of development project.
I was only stating that there could be a guild made by anyone to do so, since I too cringed at seeing all of his spelling mistakes.
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Old 08-20-2009, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Switch View Post
The only difference I see is that it will be in the Special Guilds section. Anyone could make a guild called "Graal Developers" with a "mission" of helping any server in need of help.
It will be an official team thus giving it more support from the Playerworld Administration as they would be managing and monitoring the team making it more reliable and organised other than a player based global guild which would have very little direction other than showing off to others.
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Old 08-20-2009, 01:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Bell View Post
No, they are still free to develop wherever they wish on their own time.
That needs to be italicized and emboldened.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bell View Post
So do something about it. Join the team and prove its a valuable addition. Just as a picture is worth a thousand words. Seeing a concept working on an active server is worth more than trying to explain to someone that it would work.
I am indeed interested in joining the team, and I would do it because I enjoy developing.

However, over the years I have requested simple minor features for the scripting engine and other things that have either gone unanswered or have only been implemented serverside. I do not enjoy developing on outdated platforms, and I consider Graal outdated because of the amount of time the client has gone without an update. If you, Stefan, or anyone else expects me to put more time and effort into developing, then I want to be paid with Graal updates.

These features are things that I'm sure Stefan could implement in anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours. If that is not the case, then he should explain why it would take so long and when he might be able to do it if he intends to.

Edit:

On another note, if this team concept takes off methinks a documentation of development and management standards should be created. However, methinks this would mostly be for standardizing scripting practices.
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Old 08-20-2009, 01:53 AM
Bell Bell is offline
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[QUOTE=Clockwork;1516479
And the ever so quiet Xor? [/QUOTE]
Yes, it would be Xor. His skills are more along the line of mine in the non development side.

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Originally Posted by Inverness View Post
That needs to be italicized and emboldened.
I am indeed interested in joining the team, and I would do it because I enjoy developing.
The type of person I would prefer to see join.

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Originally Posted by Inverness View Post
However, over the years I have requested simple minor features for the scripting engine and other things that have either gone unanswered or have only been implemented serverside. I do not enjoy developing on outdated platforms, and I consider Graal outdated because of the amount of time the client has gone without an update. If you, Stefan, or anyone else expects me to put more time and effort into developing, then I want to be paid with Graal updates.

These features are things that I'm sure Stefan could implement in anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours. If that is not the case, then he should explain why it would take so long and when he might be able to do it if he intends to.
I can't really answer for what has happened in the past as I wasn't here nor do I know what his reasons were for not implementing something. My purpose is to attempt to improve Graal now and for the future since iPhone apps aren't going to be sufficient to support everything I'm sure.

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Originally Posted by Inverness View Post
On another note, if this team concept takes off methinks a documentation of development and management standards should be created. However, methinks this would mostly be for standardizing scripting practices.
I agree and I'm sure there are people out there that actually enjoy doing that sort of thing and excel in it. Thats something that the team itself could form amongst themselves as this team is basically a blanket team covering all aspects.

By the comments left, I'm still a little at a loss as to whether there would be enough support to develop this team or not but I for one would like to at least give it a try. What is there to actually lose after all?
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Old 08-20-2009, 02:03 AM
Inverness Inverness is offline
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Originally Posted by Bell View Post
The type of person I would prefer to see join.
Global RC would be a nice bonus though
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Originally Posted by Bell View Post
I can't really answer for what has happened in the past as I wasn't here nor do I know what his reasons were for not implementing something. My purpose is to attempt to improve Graal now and for the future since iPhone apps aren't going to be sufficient to support everything I'm sure.
People like me run on inspiration. My own ideas provide the majority of this, but Stefan still has to provide the rest by creating a platform that will allow me to make my ideas a reality.

At the moment I would like to join this Global Development Team in an advisory role if possible, someone to come to with development questions, evaluation requests, and things of that nature. I do not want to commit to making any new content considering my lack of inspiration.

Edit: Can we get an official Graal IRC channel or something?
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Old 08-20-2009, 07:37 PM
Spark910 Spark910 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bell View Post
We are not taking talented people and asking them to do non development tasks.
No, but it is part of the mentality of global staff or at least someone with the perception of extra responsibility. If someone has to do something else with their spare time, clearly it will have some affect on their development time. This may not be too noticable or it could be really negative. Your own comment demonstrates this mentality/effect of additional responsibility:

Quote:
Its in response to many of the complaints we see on the forums about how there is a lack of participation by the global community in improving the overall quality of Graal itself
I am not too up-to-date with Graal, but the general trend over time with promotional and additional responsibility appears to be the final destination of responding to support tickets on Graal Support Centre. To do this to a good enough standard, there is generally very little time for other Graal activities such as development.

I still strongly suggest that the title will suggest something it is not. Perhaps consider a list of people who are good at what they do who can be added to a list and will be willing to either (a) answer various development questions perhaps via the support centre; (b) look at or fix various development material; and (c) both a + b.

Those who wish to develop for the general community are free to do so already.
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Old 08-20-2009, 01:55 AM
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I'll take the job guys
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Old 08-20-2009, 02:24 AM
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I think this is a very good idea it would help improve the overall quality of us servers and of graal thus. I would like to commit myself to join such a team if possible.
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Old 08-20-2009, 02:29 AM
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I also would not mind joining the team as GFX, as I can GFX different kinds of things from tiles to photoshop images to just plain ol' "re-editing"!

But yes, we have nothing to lose, and that is IF we fail, which I highly doubt!
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Old 08-20-2009, 02:32 AM
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Tig is gone this week getting set up at college and Skyld will be gone till Friday. I'll get in contact with the globals within a week or so and see what we can get set up as far as an application process goes.

Do any of you have any suggestions as to what should be required to join the team itself? Please be as specific as possible.
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Old 08-20-2009, 03:19 AM
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Do any of you have any suggestions as to what should be required to join the team itself? Please be as specific as possible.
Just a few off the top of my head.

1. I would suggest that the first requirement would be that the applicants would need an active gold subscription or they wouldn't be able to login/use under construction playerworlds or be able to update the Graal Bible.

2. Another requirement would be to show proof that they are skilled in the development areas they stated as some applicants may submit work they didn't produce.

3. Applicants must have very little or no history of trouble making either on Graal or on the forums.

4. It would help for the applications to have decent communication and management skills in order to deal with server Managers and staff they are providing assistance to.
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Old 08-20-2009, 03:25 AM
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1. I would suggest that the first requirement would be that the applicants would need an active gold subscription or they wouldn't be able to login/use under construction playerworlds or be able to update the Graal Bible.
Absolutely not.
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4. It would help for the applications to have decent communication and management skills in order to deal with server Managers and staff they are providing assistance to.
IMHO, don't allow people into the GDT if they can't use proper English.
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Old 08-20-2009, 03:31 AM
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Absolutely not.
It doesn't change the fact that you need a gold subscription to do certain tasks the position requires.
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Old 08-20-2009, 09:22 AM
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I predict a lot of people applying who think they can develop but actually can't. If this is the case, and they're actually taken on board, then they're not going to recognize that they're not all that, nothing is going to change in quality, and there will be no incentive to change or get better. High standards are kind of necessary in something like this, especially if people are learning from their example, but I'm not saying it should be elitist requirements.

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3. Applicants must have very little or no history of trouble making either on Graal or on the forums.
Forums are a way different deal to making trouble on Graal; nearly everyone on the forum has received infractions, but that's not to say they have received jails or bans or are an actual trouble maker. Something like this would exclude people like Dusty and Crono if they were ever interested, and that is two of the few remaining talented developers we have, two of the remaining talented developers that contribute already.
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Seriously, you have ****-all for content and you're not exactly pulling in new developer talent, angling for prestigious titles should be your last concern.
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Old 08-20-2009, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
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Do any of you have any suggestions as to what should be required to join the team itself? Please be as specific as possible.
1. Portfolio

2. Special organization skills as this is a very important aspect in development, many many graphics designers have little to no plan on what steps they are going, they just work towards a goal that is impossible to achieve with no correct direction.

And as far as Gold goes, I think that is not a big problem once the team is established, it would be more difficult if it was 20-30 developers in the team though.


Lol Rufus I remember the times where the global guilds had an application time and many people applied (R.I.P. GGT -_-...)

And people said that it would be slave labour...look...
What have we done the past 8 years? The same...
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Old 08-20-2009, 05:42 PM
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Let me get this straight.
You're going to entice developers to finally band together, work together, and contribute more, something that has proved an impossibility on a large scale for quite some time now, by throwing a non global RC global team at things and giving them the all fulfilling feeling of working together to do something meaningful?

Give me a break. There would only be one reason a person would join the damn team, and that is for a position of power, that doesn't really have all that much power, just some new team flair.

You're looking to entice talented devs, yet most talented devs wouldn't contribute to this at all, just nab a not so enticing global position and fade away(like the GST, which had more rights and authority that what is proposed here).

The fact is, developers that are talented enough, will only really focus on projects and tasks that interest or benefit them, because there is simply no drive to work on something you don't want to work on in this game. There is no incentive, monetary or otherwise to join this team, beyond being on an omg global team(with no power or authority, might I add).

The only way you'd form a team like this, is if there was a benefit to it.
Beyond the promise of global power, etc etc, there's little to no reason to do this unless you get a chubby from working as a team, and judging from the state of development as a whole on this game now, there isn't very many people that do.
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Old 08-20-2009, 06:21 PM
Elk Elk is offline
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Bell already said that players arnt forced to work on something that is not interesting...I guess there will be conferences and so on for decisions what project to help and so on...
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Old 08-20-2009, 06:26 PM
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Bell already said that players arnt forced to work on something that is not interesting...I guess there will be conferences and so on for decisions what project to help and so on...
you can't force a decent developer to work on anything in the first place.
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Old 08-20-2009, 06:36 PM
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Give me a break. There would only be one reason a person would join the damn team, and that is for a position of power, that doesn't really have all that much power, just some new team flair.
Your point is already invalidated by the simple fact that I have no need for something like a global RC and yet I would still join this team because I enjoy developing as I said before.

Your negativity is not helping in the least.
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You're looking to entice talented devs, yet most talented devs wouldn't contribute to this at all, just nab a not so enticing global position and fade away(like the GST, which had more rights and authority that what is proposed here).

The fact is, developers that are talented enough, will only really focus on projects and tasks that interest or benefit them, because there is simply no drive to work on something you don't want to work on in this game. There is no incentive, monetary or otherwise to join this team, beyond being on an omg global team(with no power or authority, might I add).

The only way you'd form a team like this, is if there was a benefit to it.
Beyond the promise of global power, etc etc, there's little to no reason to do this unless you get a chubby from working as a team, and judging from the state of development as a whole on this game now, there isn't very many people that do.
People like my develop because we enjoy it and are inspired by an idea of what we want to do. The top developers are currently scattered around Graal, and not all of them actively develop anymore like myself. An organized team would allow the members to more easily share their ideas and provide inspiration for themselves and other servers.

Again, I believe Stefan would need to contribute in his own way if this idea is to go anywhere.
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you can't force a decent developer to work on anything in the first place.
Elk obviously did not mean that as literally as you're taking it.
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Old 08-20-2009, 06:45 PM
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Your point is already invalidated by the simple fact that I have no need for something like a global RC and yet I would still join this team because I enjoy developing as I said before.
Anyone can say that to shoe them in to head this thing, you even hinted that "global RC would be a nice perk". Even if your intention is pure, you're one person.
The trend in this thread amongst talented devs is that this would be an epic failure.

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Your negativity is not helping in the least.
People like my develop because we enjoy it and are inspired by an idea of what we want to do. The top developers are currently scattered around Graal, and not all of them actively develop anymore like myself. An organized team would allow the members to more easily share their ideas and provide inspiration for themselves and other servers.

Again, I believe Stefan would need to contribute in his own way if this idea is to go anywhere.
Elk obviously did not mean that as literally as you're taking it.
They're scattered because the system in place now, for how development works, allows them to scatter themselves to work on projects that interest them, either by heading up their own server, or working for an existing one where they have significant say in what goes on(most scripters on servers have significantly bolstered RC and folder rights beyond what they need to do their job, and sometimes unneeded authority aswell).

Talented developers aren't scattered by chance, longing for finding each other and working as one cohesive group, its because they've become so rare and desired, that a lot of them have a huge ego, and egos don't work well in a group setting. So they scattered more and more throughout the years What will magically make them finally collaborate in a group to do something meaningful, without some drastic changes being made?
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Old 08-20-2009, 03:42 AM
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I'd also be willing to help out other servers with whatever problems they have. Unfortunately I don't really want to write an application to apply for this position.
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Old 08-20-2009, 04:10 AM
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I'd also be willing to help out other servers with whatever problems they have. Unfortunately I don't really want to write an application to apply for this position.
I suppose your desire to help out other servers isn't that strong then.
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It doesn't change the fact that you need a gold subscription to do certain tasks the position requires.
The details of the team's operation have not been established. If the team is decently sized it would be unnecessary for all members to be able to go on under construction servers or be able to edit the wiki.
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Old 08-20-2009, 04:37 AM
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The details of the team's operation have not been established. If the team is decently sized it would be unnecessary for all members to be able to go on under construction servers or be able to edit the wiki.
Maybe not but Bell did state the team will help under construction playerworlds and updating the documentation on the graal bible. Having an active gold subscription may not be required for all members of the team in special cases but in general most applicants should have an active gold subscription.
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Old 08-20-2009, 04:42 AM
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Maybe not but Bell did state the team will help under construction playerworlds and updating the documentation on the graal bible. Having an active gold subscription may not be required for all members of the team in special cases but in general most applicants should have an active gold subscription.
if the team is going to be that helpful to graal, as suggested, then i don't see why it would be a problem to give active and contributing members gold. while some developers might be adamant about helping graal out and purchasing gold to just join the team, i'd guess that the majority are not
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Old 08-20-2009, 04:49 AM
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if the team is going to be that helpful to graal, as suggested, then i don't see why it would be a problem to give active and contributing members gold. while some developers might be adamant about helping graal out and purchasing gold to just join the team, i'd guess that the majority are not
As far as I know the current global staff team has to pay for gold subscriptions so I don't see why members of the global development team would get it.
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Old 08-20-2009, 05:02 AM
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How would this work in servers that do not allow global guilds? :P
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Old 08-20-2009, 05:21 AM
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How would this work in servers that do not allow global guilds? :P
Administration and special guilds work on every server even with global guilds disabled. As an example I could use both GK Staff and Global News Team global guilds on Era or Zodiac even with the option disabled.
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Old 08-20-2009, 05:50 AM
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Administration and special guilds work on every server even with global guilds disabled. As an example I could use both GK Staff and Global News Team global guilds on Era or Zodiac even with the option disabled.
Ah...I was trying to think of a guild that might work but I couldn't... Thanks for reminding me of those.
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Old 08-20-2009, 08:01 PM
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Why do I get the feeling I'm wasting my time on this.

No response needed.
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Old 08-20-2009, 08:13 PM
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Why do I get the feeling I'm wasting my time on this.

No response needed.
Well the intentions behind it are good, it's just that it would be better if it worked more like the old GST/GGT teams did. But this time actually have active teams for each of the major development positions (LAT, NAT, and GAT) that contribute to the Classic servers.
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Old 08-20-2009, 08:46 PM
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Well the intentions behind it are good, it's just that it would be better if it worked more like the old GST/GGT teams did. But this time actually have active teams for each of the major development positions (LAT, NAT, and GAT) that contribute to the Classic servers.
Which brings us back to the point that some new team with a clever guild tag is not needed to perform commonsense actions like collective teamwork. Sadly, theft and corruption are some of the largest issues that prevent any abundance of cross-server cooperation and that's just a shame.
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Old 08-20-2009, 08:24 PM
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Why do I get the feeling I'm wasting my time on this.

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Because people don't understand that Stefan doesn't give a crap about their uber development skills and won't give them development tools with which they can change graal.
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Old 08-20-2009, 08:36 PM
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Good idea! I think this will really benefit Graal as a whole and help bring new players to Graal.
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Old 08-20-2009, 09:24 PM
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Old 08-20-2009, 11:08 PM
WhiteDragon WhiteDragon is offline
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Maybe if this was a small group of developers that have a direct line of contact with Stefan?

That way there would be a good representation of what the development community needs.
Stefan would have to deal with less PMs from frustrated developers and he would always know that what comes out of the group is important.

Edit:
Note that this would probably help the "communication break" between a lot of the developers and Stefan.

Obviously, this all depends on if Stefan agrees to always listen to what the team has to say.
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Old 08-20-2009, 11:19 PM
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Maybe if this was a small group of developers that have a direct line of contact with Stefan?

That way there would be a good representation of what the development community needs.
Stefan would have to deal with less PMs from frustrated developers and he would always know that what comes out of the group is important.

Edit:
Note that this would probably help the "communication break" between a lot of the developers and Stefan.

Obviously, this all depends on if Stefan agrees to always listen to what the team has to say.
I absolutely agree, but I also thought that was implied. If that is not one of the aspects of the team (as it stands now) then it needs to be.
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