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  #16  
Old 02-07-2010, 04:29 AM
salesman salesman is offline
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Do not like this idea. I think players should be able to waste their money if they so choose. A project isn't suddenly going to be more likely to succeed just because you make people jump through hoops to start it. The UC servers really aren't stealing good developers anyways..

I do however agree that people should NOT be required to buy gold to work on a server. Server slots please???
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  #17  
Old 02-07-2010, 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by cbk1994 View Post
And what if the developers just want to play around with scripts and make something cool?
Testbed.

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Originally Posted by salesman View Post
Do not like this idea. I think players should be able to waste their money if they so choose. A project isn't suddenly going to be more likely to succeed just because you make people jump through hoops to start it.
A project will be more likely to succeed if it has a clearer direction and already has content produced before gaining its own server.

Methinks history is the viability of this idea.
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The UC servers really aren't stealing good developers anyways..
Whether or not they are good developers is an opinion. Everyone has to start somewhere.
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  #18  
Old 02-07-2010, 05:10 AM
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The idea looks good on paper, IMO.

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Originally Posted by fowlplay4 View Post
Can't make money off the old way which is why they'll never go back to it, but I do agree that developers shouldn't have to pay for a gold sub.

It would be more realistic to have developer slots on servers, so they can have X amount of people work on the server for free.
This I fully agree on.

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Originally Posted by Inverness View Post
Entirely false. More quality content would attract more people to Graal.

This is one of those risks you have to take in business, Stefan can either continue the current trend with Graal slowly dieing or take a risk that will most likely pay off in the end.
How do you know?
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  #19  
Old 02-07-2010, 06:13 AM
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How do you know?
To make reference to Kaimetsu, how do you know the air you breathe is safe when you leave your house? Certain assumptions must be made, sometimes with risks.

However, while I agree with the catalyst of change, I would like to specify that Stefan plays a minimal role in game system decisions.
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  #20  
Old 02-07-2010, 06:21 AM
Inverness Inverness is offline
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How do you know?
Take a look at the classic server list, how many of those came around after the new system was introduced?
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  #21  
Old 02-07-2010, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Inverness View Post
it would be required to already have a decent amount of content established beforehand before you could request a free server (evaluation required) to bring your content online and kick things into next gear. Of course in the generation of GS2, you can not really do that kind of stuff offline anymore, so a server like Testbed would be required to allow budding projects to develop to the point where they could obtain their own server. Basically this means that any under construction servers are already guaranteed to have a good amount of content--the foundation--in place. Developers interested in contributing could know that the server they're working on has already passed one level of evaluation and is most likely going somewhere.
In my opinion the best thing graal could do to make MONEY is have the above implemented and add changes to the "in game shop". Instead of of making people pay per month and making them pay for servers. The majority of the community is people who are young. They dont have a visa or master card or even jobs usually and getting their parent to caugh up the cash every month(s)/year is not an easy task with such high prices.

I believe making graal 100% free to play for life (BIG SELLER) is the way to go. Instead offer benefits to people who will "support" graal. If all the servers that go up work along side with the management. Basically people would pay cash for stuff such as: mounts, weapons, supporter only weapons, Server money, hats,instruments,starter packages, EXP for money, cars, all quest complete package, basically offer it for money everything that takes time and is hard/boring/long to get/do on graal. all kinds of stuff could be sold for cheap prices. You can offer them for in game currency "gelats".

The current system, the new players discovering graal are usually pushed away beacause of the trial mode with observer. People really hate observer mode with a passion. IF graal was free 100% the numbers would boom, people would flock in larger numbers not being scared away by prices and observer mode pressuring you to buy p2p. They would instead come to love the classic server. With the much larger number of players, there are A LOT more chances of the ingame items to be sold in large numbers but in smaller prices. More players, more servers more sales.

Picture just a noob and hes constantly getting killed on era beacause he cant get a good gun or he doesnt want to dig for hours and hours for epic weapons, he can just buy it with his realy money.

Even kids would have a much easier time getting their parents to buy something for like 5-15$ over the cheapest thing i see in the graal shop for 35$ (CAD).

Take it from evony and other "free to play forever" games.

Even look at the Iphone servers.... they have like server numbers almsot hitting 1000!!! imagine how well the pc version would do.... if graal was free forever. (besides having a lot of advantages if you buy stuff.)

edit: potions, unlimited gas/battery, extra exp for certain time, miningexp, fishing exp, lumbercutting exp, offer levels for money, extra bags, all kinds.... I dont play zone or GK but im sure theres lots of stuff there you could put in a shop offer for gelats.
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Last edited by geneticfrog; 02-07-2010 at 06:41 AM..
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  #22  
Old 02-07-2010, 06:45 AM
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It may be important to refer to my very brief blog entry on the subject, "Playersworlds & Rented Servers".

My main questions becomes:
Can improved developer longevity (paying period), improved development quality, and higher playerworld player count make more money than rented servers which dilute the development pool?
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  #23  
Old 02-07-2010, 07:05 AM
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I don't know if anybody knows the facts regarding Graals Income, I don't know for anything for sure either, but I'd place my bet that it is the Playerworld rental policy which is by far the largest contributor.

It's depressing that some people throw their money towards something they have little to no chance of accomplishment with, just the other day a friend I hadn't seen log on for over 2 years came back (lets say he does not know how to script) and bought a server for what I recall being his 3rd time despite the previous time never resulting in the server even becoming a Development Project.

And then you get adolescents likely with too much money who would perhaps strongly believe that they can succeed, but ultimately end up wasting the time of new Developers and PWA members alike when acts like content theft and server destruction kick in.

Put yourself in the shoes of Stefan and Unixmad however, and you'd probably welcome this.
Although I can agree that this policy is contributing to Graal being killed off as a "Game", while this may be covering the costs right now, chances are Graal will lose it's income as a "Development Platform" through decreased interest as the enjoyment of the "Game" gets worse through unsuccessful Development, there needs to be a happy medium that allows Graal to co-exist as both a Game and Development Platform.
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  #24  
Old 02-07-2010, 07:16 AM
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I agree with this. Players shouldn't have to have gold to be able to develop on a server.
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  #25  
Old 02-07-2010, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
It may be important to refer to my very brief blog entry on the subject, "Playersworlds & Rented Servers".

My main questions becomes:
Can improved developer longevity (paying period), improved development quality, and higher playerworld player count make more money than rented servers which dilute the development pool?

The thing about the current system is that its not new player friendly. If they took away the accounts with classic servers free for life so many people would have quit... We are really the people who are keeping graal alive. Some untold heros too who dont come on forums. You have no money if you have no community... Graal IS slowly dying beacause there are so many other games ou there that are free....

Want a WOW feeling game but free? check out Runes of Magic, its free for life uses a shop and is only getting bigger.

Evony is free for life and has a shop that lets you buy items to speed stuff up if you dont have time. Its making a lot of money... they both are... You see evony adds everywhere now... EVERYWHERE some are half porn.

anyways, If graal was free more people would obviously mean more development. More players joining learning the art of dev. I figure at the start of the switch dev wont go up that much since its hard to learn. However the The numbers would probably go up 10x and instead of losing players everyyear and increasing prices... you only gain more and more players if its FREE. The main aspect of graal right now is not the lack of servers... its the lack of players. Focus on making the people happy and the rest will come. As for the quality of the development that depends on the individual. Graal is more of a big chat chill spot then about dev but of course with more players naturally more people will learn in time...

10-20x more players + cash shops for people who have jobs for example... they spend their hours at work not on graal mining.

THe computer has been around a long time and IS the main form of gaming... there are so many people out there in the internet on their computers compared to iphones who is hitting about 1k players.

I KNOW that if they switch to free and offer ingame items for real cash for people who acutally work and dont have time to grind for exp. Kids who beg their parents as well... since if its cheap prices people obviously will buy it more...

100$ for a year of graal gold?.... i Pay 60$ ish for xbox live ...
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Last edited by geneticfrog; 02-07-2010 at 07:48 AM..
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  #26  
Old 02-07-2010, 09:19 AM
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doesn't it suck how money ruins everything?
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  #27  
Old 02-07-2010, 01:40 PM
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And what if the developers just want to play around with scripts and make something cool?
Great reason why offline development tools should never have been forsaken.
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  #28  
Old 02-07-2010, 03:31 PM
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Great reason why offline development tools should never have been forsaken.
This.
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  #29  
Old 02-07-2010, 07:40 PM
cbk1994 cbk1994 is offline
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Great reason why offline development tools should never have been forsaken.
Not really. There is no NPC-server offline, so they will always be pretty useless for scripters.

I'm all for offline tools of course, but there's no reason to add unnecessary features like GS2 for the level editor.
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  #30  
Old 02-07-2010, 08:18 PM
DarkReaper0 DarkReaper0 is offline
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Originally Posted by cbk1994 View Post
Not really. There is no NPC-server offline, so they will always be pretty useless for scripters.

I'm all for offline tools of course, but there's no reason to add unnecessary features like GS2 for the level editor.

Wait wait wait wait wait, did you REALLY just say offline GS2 is unnecessary?


What reasoning possibly supports this?
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