A few ideas to promote growth

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by Imperialistic

I don't understand..

Why wouldn't you advertise the game? Most people like playing games, they just don't want to hop in the boat right away and start developing.

Graal Online it itself should be advertised as a development platform, while individual servers should be advertised as games.

[MiniOne]

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

Graal Online it itself should be advertised as a development platform, while individual servers should be advertised as games.

Though Graal Online is both a development platform and a games server, therefore it should be advertised as so; a package, in which you can play and develop.

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by MiniOne

Though Graal Online is both a development platform and a games server, therefore it should be advertised as so; a package, in which you can play and develop.

Except that the servers aren't made by Graal Online, only hosted. Each servers manager should advertise their server.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

Graal Online it itself should be advertised as a development platform

You see, Graal's downfall started when they began treating Graal as such. Graal is a game, it is made up of the individual servers. The sooner the higher-ups realize this the sooner this game can be fixed.

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by Crono

You see, Graal's downfall started when they began treating Graal as such. Graal is a game, it is made up of the individual servers. The sooner the higher-ups realize this the sooner this game can be fixed.

Because none of the sever managers are advertising their game, aka server. Not even CJ are advertising any server, which is bad, but Graal Online in itself should be advertised as a development platform.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Crono

You see, Graal's downfall started when they began treating Graal as such. Graal is a game, it is made up of the individual servers. The sooner the higher-ups realize this the sooner this game can be fixed.

If advertising is ever pursued officially they should target players and developers separately. I think they should emphasize their advertisements on developers.

More kids are interested in graal as a game engine than as a game. That is, after all, the few features it has which defines it as a product.

Originally Posted by Rufus

We are merely players no matter how good our ideas are, and there are sadly very few instances where the players that are not already close to Stefan are listened to.

There are serious avenues of the game a group of developers could positively indfluence without administrative help.

Originally Posted by Rufus

Our ideas really need to be supported by the people that are running the game in order for them to ever work, so suggesting is as good as it gets realistically.

If a large group of players, who have established themselves in the Graal community (if it ever gets to that point) ask for a feature, they will be more readily listened to than an individual player.

That's not the purpose of the development group I've mentioned, but it's a fringe benefit. The philosophy you project to me is one where you have decided that you cannot control every aspect of the game, so you might as well not try influencing or improving any.

Originally Posted by Vima

The News Admin might help but the problem is really on the Graal people.
Everyone says that Stefan should do this and that, but Graal is really depending on their players to make new content on the servers. Constantly updating Graal Servers with new features.

This is the underlying logic behind what I'm driving home - players can develop not just new content but better systems. So their games are more about the content and less about messing with some settings, or trying to learn a new help system on every server. Little things which will improve the community as a whole. God knows there's enough problems that, if they were fixed, it would be a breath of fresh air.

Originally Posted by Crono

This is the real problem.

But it wasn't a problem when there were fewer servers - we had enough players that, even if developers wanted to behave in such a way to make themselves disposable, another one would always better there to pick up the slack.

That's why we need new players and why people want advertising. We just need to make sure Graal Online as a game is ready to HOLD the interest of new players. Why pay for advertising to attract 100+ people for a week when you can work a little on the content, pay for advertising, and attract 100+ people for a year or two? Especially if they get their friends involved.

Originally Posted by Cloven

Especially with the lack of incentive to doing so.

The incentive is the same as it always has been, I think. The big problem is the quality of ideas is very low. So there's not a lot of new stuff, and what we do have is...

Originally Posted by Vima

So what do you expect them to do?
They allready "manage" 2 servers, isn't it up to US to work together and release and update new servers? Graal will do the rest of the job.
This is how Graal is now, it really consist of playerworlds made by the players.

That's the general concept - and I'm glad someone recognizes it.

Originally Posted by DesolateRestriction

follow link if interested

I'm sorry to chide, but it's in poor taste to return to a thread which has functioned merrily for nearly two pages and revert attention to an already distracting occassion... Especially if you're going to end your post with a derisive and insulting statement? x-x

[Unkownsoldier]

Stephen I get what you are saying but one other point it that if you log on to Graalonline you see content with Graalonlines name stamped to it not the creators. If you want to see who helped develop part of it you can go on Graal wiki but not to many players go there or even know about it. And if, if you even go there it only usually shows the manager the creator and few others who helped not the hundreds who made it what it is. All I am saying is that no one really gets credit for work other than Graal, see when you make furniture for a brand, you usually get your name up there not the people who actually make it but the people who designed it. Now some other places do the opposite they just have the brand name with no credit because the person who made it belongs to a company but they get payed instead of them paying the company.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Unkownsoldier

not to many players go there or even know about it.

That will change hopefully with the hiring of a News Admin.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Unkownsoldier

Stephen I get what you are saying but one other point it that if you log on to Graalonline you see content with Graalonlines name stamped to it not the creators. If you want to see who helped develop part of it you can go on Graal wiki but not to many players go there or even know about it.

But that's not true. Graal Online hasn't ever branded the work of playerworlds as their own. Additionally, while it's true that a lot of the people who helped make playerworlds don't get officially recognized - that's not Graal Online's fault.

They're not actively trying to take credit, or silence the credit being given. They're not responsible for the decisions that managers make so long as they're ethically acceptable and within the rules of conduct.

I don't see why anyone would try to put the responsibility on Graal Online either. You have to understand that most playerworlds and even some Gold content is managed by young people who have very little experience working with large groups which is healthy & sustainable for the long term. They're the ones who decide to give credit - but I know it would really distract from the quality of gameplay if I started seeing everyone's signature on every little graphic and level...

Besides, you have to wonder what sort of person works solely for credit - to be recognized. Credit doesn't have the same motivation for quality and longevity - people have to have a passion for them individually, they're the ones who actually earn their credit... without writing their signature on every piece or demanding their namesake on a list.

You look at Alarid, for example. His graphics are beautiful and recognized. He has a passion for quality - not for credit.




This is the second time you've changed the subject of this thread - and I think the initial topic of the thread is very important. I'm sorry to scold, but I don't feel you're being very considerate.

[Imperialistic]

LOL, D**N.
burn baby, burn.

[MiniOne]

A little harsh.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by DesolateRestriction

This isn't a finalization by any stretch of the imagination. No, someone does NOT have to write an essay to help throw in an idea or two and it's sad that you feel that way. I have no particular personal interest in this thread other than the ideas about growth/improvement of the game and her community.

Originally Posted by Stephen

Any person really interested in helping Graal will have to work first in a large group discussion to help finalize goals for the "development path". The reading and writing which will go into that alone will likely amount to a small essay on each person's part

I'm emphasizing group work. Not individual development.

Originally Posted by DesolateRestriction

If you are speaking about kownsoldier, it was a warning to the readers of the thread, not an insult. Since you're such an avid follower of only posting about
the original post's topic, why are you so determined to point out every little thing imaginable like a little girl with her feelings hurt?

It's kind of sad that, before development can even begin, someone is getting defensive. Any clear thinking person would recognize that I've been correcting poor assumptions - and they have, so far, been entirely neutral. Where you got the idea that I was "like a little girl with her feelings hurt" is beyond me, but I suppose it goes to show the maturity level of the community - and why I emphasize we need to improve the community before anyone should consider advertising.

Originally Posted by DesolateRestriction

But if you're not, then I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at.
I AM interested in helping. I stated in the original post that if someone wanted details to forum PM me. If you're referring to the website section in my original post, I stated that it was partially flaming. Mostly just my opinion, but a majority agree with it. It gives a wrong first impression to new comers, I've tested it.

I'm not sure how, in one paragraph, you can rant like an unstable psych-ward patient, and the next try to reason like a normal human being. It makes it hard to take someone serious.

This is the second time you have taken the thread off topic to personally attack an individual - first was unknownsoldier, and now me. The difference is that I have been actively participating in the thread. I have been researching the concept for nearly a year now and you can find my conversations about it in three threads - which I can link to later if you can't find them.

Originally Posted by DesolateRestriction

Where exactly are YOUR ideas? I didn't see them so much as I saw whiny criticism about a majority of the posts in the thread...

Not everything is about shooting your mouth off, to randomly give ideas - that's not the first step. A group of willing participants needs to be organized first, so everyone can fairly discuss their ideas. That way the group can determine a "path of development".

I've also said that it would be nearly impossible to arrange and very unlikely to succeed - because people are so easily insulted, ignoring the long term goals for their own immediate feelings.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by Stephen

A group of willing participants needs to be organized first, so everyone can fairly discuss their ideas. That way the group can determine a "path of development".

I've also said that it would be nearly impossible to arrange and very unlikely to succeed - because people are so easily insulted, ignoring the long term goals for their own immediate feelings.

If a group of people were brought together, put their person feelings aside and brainstormed some ideas to promote growth or whatever the latest hot topic is, would it really make a difference? We've had many people try to bring the community together, we've had many different group discussions in a various amount of threads regarding many different ideas, yet nothing is ever acted upon. We are merely players no matter how good our ideas are, and there are sadly very few instances where the players that are not already close to Stefan are listened to. Our ideas really need to be supported by the people that are running the game in order for them to ever work, so suggesting is as good as it gets realistically.

[Vima]

A few ideas to promote growth?
Graal have to work with what it allready have!

How about starting to focus on the UC Servers!
The News Admin might help but the problem is really on the Graal people.
Everyone says that Stefan should do this and that, but Graal is really depending on their players to make new content on the servers. Constantly updating Graal Servers with new features.

The problem is, no one wants to work, sacrifice their own time, to help a UC server.
Which means Graal is stuck. No new servers are comming.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Vima

but Graal is really depending on their players to make new content on the servers

This is the real problem.