Graal Forums  

Go Back   Graal Forums > General Forums > Graal Main Forum (English)
FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-12-2006, 10:01 AM
HoudiniMan HoudiniMan is offline
Playerworld Administrator
HoudiniMan's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calfiornia - USA
Posts: 3,512
HoudiniMan is on a distinguished road
Revision of the Playerworld Rules

More like... remake.

I'm not even going to link to the old ones because they were last updated in 2003, and a lot of the rules need adjusting to even fit in today.

So, I would like everybody's opinion on what rules need to be officialized, revised, etc.

Also, and this is something very touchy and will need to be discussed with the directors, is what happens if a playerworld breaks the rules?

I am also establishing a more concrete requirement for the hosted tab inspections. So far my outline is revolving around two main things:

1) An area, however small (i.e. only 1 town is okay) that is 100% completed. This area should function as a preview/teaser for the world that is under construction, and should be representative of the final product in all it's larger glory. This way players get a taste for the style, and gameplay of a server.

2) It should draw the players interest. There should be enough activity to keep a players interest without the intervention of a tour guide or an events staff team. The server itself should have interesting enough aspects to hold interest for some time byitself, we recommend at least 1 hour.

Public input rocks.
__________________
-HoudiniMan (Chief Playerworld Administrator)
Compulsive Support Center Checker - 5 Years and Change
Graal Support Center

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-12-2006, 10:05 AM
Devil Devil is offline
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,835
Devil has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Send a message via AIM to Devil Send a message via MSN to Devil
I think the requirement for the Hosted area is a near complete server, if it's not complete or no where near finished, why should it be shown to players in a server list if It can't hold a players interest for (MORE) than 1 hour.

Definately needs to be larger than 1 hour there Houdini.

When talking about playerworlds breaking the rules, are you referring to hosted and private servers, or all servers including classic?

--------------------------------------

My post from the other thread aswell,

So since Houdini suggested we should make a thread so Sam wouldn't stomp on us, the title pretty much speaks for itself.

I personally think we need some more PWA members.. I only really see Houdini copping alot of the flak when it comes to PWA problems.

Come on Graal, we need some more members.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-12-2006, 10:08 AM
HoudiniMan HoudiniMan is offline
Playerworld Administrator
HoudiniMan's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calfiornia - USA
Posts: 3,512
HoudiniMan is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devil View Post
I think the requirement for the Hosted area is a near complete server, if it's not complete or no where near finished, why should it be shown to players in a server list if It can't hold a players interest for (MORE) than 1 hour.

Definately needs to be larger than 1 hour there Houdini.

When talking about playerworlds breaking the rules, are you referring to hosted and private servers, or all servers including classic?

--------------------------------------

My post from the other thread aswell,

So since Houdini suggested we should make a thread so Sam wouldn't stomp on us, the title pretty much speaks for itself.

I personally think we need some more PWA members.. I only really see Houdini copping alot of the flak when it comes to PWA problems.

Come on Graal, we need some more members.
Well, do you think we should differentiate between classic/hosted/private rulebreakers? There are probably several cases this is appropriate, but which do you think are?

I think hosted should be a place to showcase what you have done, and your potential. That way you can draw staff to help you and players to test things.

As for the PWA team itself, let's keep that in your other thread.
__________________
-HoudiniMan (Chief Playerworld Administrator)
Compulsive Support Center Checker - 5 Years and Change
Graal Support Center

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-12-2006, 10:13 AM
Devil Devil is offline
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,835
Devil has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Send a message via AIM to Devil Send a message via MSN to Devil
Lol I deleted the other thread. So there didn't have to be 2 different on-going discussions.

One problem I keep seeing pop up is the lack of intelligence some of the playerworld owners with their whole servers being deleted.

This can and most certainly will be a loss of money towards Graal for the simple fact, if no one informs playerworld owners that if they keep giving out stupid rights to people who don't need them, they will get sick of having their world hosted and stop buying a subscription to it every 6 months, or every year, whichever they have bought.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-12-2006, 10:13 AM
gx_staff5 gx_staff5 is offline
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 18
gx_staff5 is on a distinguished road
Personally I think if a 'Classic' server cant maintain a daily average of 10-20Unique players it should be removed from the list because obviously its doing something wrong and needs to be pushed back to near classic, development stages; Hosted Tab. Also it would bring in money because staff would need to re-upgrade to work at the server while it is at the hosted state or they will just hire new staff.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-12-2006, 10:16 AM
Devil Devil is offline
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,835
Devil has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Send a message via AIM to Devil Send a message via MSN to Devil
Sorry I'm posting alot, but what the guy said above me, is exactly right.

I'm sick of seeing servers that are dead, or have barely any players. It's a waste of space, and I would love to see other up and coming servers have a chance to make it to classic, it gives the playerworld owners more incentive to bring together good developers, and create a fantastic world for all people to enjoy.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-12-2006, 12:09 PM
konidias konidias is offline
Old Bee
konidias's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 7,222
konidias will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to konidias
I believe that in order for any rules to even be worth anything, you'll need a lot more PWA. I'm talking 20-30 of them... seriously. Loads. Then you need an admin for these PWA so that the admin can watch over them and instruct them and not let them run wild and do whatever they want.

PWA need to be the glue that holds playerworlds together and polishes them up. They need to keep a constant eye on all of the public playerworlds and the servers that are near release. They should be lending a hand to the promising servers (or trying to find people who might be willing to) so that the projects don't just fizzle out and die.

Honestly PWA should be like ninja... You work around the server owners/staff quietly and only disturb them when absolutely necessary. Also I don't like it when PWA just pop on my server unannounced and look through my sh*t without even talking to me. Kind of rude and disrespectful if you ask me.

Really though, I think the PWA could do a good job of encouraging promising playerworlds to keep going without getting too involved in their business... and also making sure to hear all sides of a "theft" case, where one playerworld is saying another is stealing from it somehow...

I just don't like the idea of some group of people having power over everything I've worked to create and all they do is randomly pop on my server and look through my stuff and leave, and don't ask how the server is doing or if I need assistance or anything like that.

Really I don't see the reason that PWA should even go on private servers unless requested by the staff there.

Anyway, I know I didn't post much about what I think of the rules and stuff... I have to go right now so I will make a better reply later. =P
__________________

Put this image in your sig if you support Bomy Island! (g2k1 revision)
play bomberman while you wait!


Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-12-2006, 01:20 PM
petro1212 petro1212 is offline
Angelus
petro1212's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: The Moon
Posts: 445
petro1212 is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to petro1212 Send a message via MSN to petro1212
Lightbulb

Classic

Servers in this list should attract new players, thus they need to be entertaining and work properly. If servers can't seem to get enough players or their content is inapropriate, fails to meet a certain standart ect.. than these servers simply don't deserve to be on this list. These servers aren't paid for so they should bring in atleast some money for Graal online.

Most of the classic servers don't have owners resposible for their content, simply managers appointed by previous managers or other staff. The PWA could take a supervising role these servers.

Classic servers could have a quota set for the monthly/weekly development releases that they need to preform to keep their content updated and expand it (like most proffesional online games). The PW Team could simply have a small role in this such as checking that quota's are met and content is appropriate. *

The PW Team could also make sure that each server has certain bonus's for VIP/Gold accounts compared to expired gold & trial accounts.

Hosted

The Idea Houdiniman has is pretty good.. no comments on that


* The PW Team could make sure that Classic servers have a very profesional winter/christmas packadge (bug free) done in august already ect. (They don't need to play baby sitters but they could advise servers to think ahead)
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-12-2006, 01:56 PM
Crono Crono is offline
:pluffy:
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sweden
Posts: 20,000
Crono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond repute
One thing obviously lacking is quality. For example Zodiac was passed with the excuse of "It had good gameplay, and there was nothing else!". That's a horrible reason. You could have asked Zodiac to fix it's levels, make the graphics not look like a 9 year old drew them, and THEN passed them for the Classic List.

But obviously quality is looked down upon and everyone is after quantity. In my opinion when a server is being reviewed, you should look at more than just gameplay. I remember in 2002 Bravo was revived but PWA told them that they had to make the levels better, despite the fact that the server had a decent and stable playercount. That did more harm than good, but now you have servers that seriously need facelifts and nothing is being done.

Also what about player requirements? If the server is sitting there with 0 players...

Quote:
1) An area, however small (i.e. only 1 town is okay) that is 100% completed. This area should function as a preview/teaser for the world that is under construction, and should be representative of the final product in all it's larger glory. This way players get a taste for the style, and gameplay of a server.
I agree, but it shouldn't reveal too much as you need to keep some things hidden for the big BANG CHECK THIS OUT GUYS.

Quote:
2) It should draw the players interest. There should be enough activity to keep a players interest without the intervention of a tour guide or an events staff team.
I so agree. Events != content. (technically it is but whatever)
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-12-2006, 01:57 PM
Mykel Mykel is offline
:o
Mykel's Avatar
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Canton, Ohio.
Posts: 5,526
Mykel has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via AIM to Mykel Send a message via MSN to Mykel
Quote:
Originally Posted by konidias View Post
stuff
While maybe I think 20-30 is overkill, I think that hiring 6-7 PWA's would be a good idea. When they had nothing to do they could randomly hop on servers and see if anything was needed. They could help solve PWA issues within the support center, etc.
__________________
(Married to Skyld)
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-12-2006, 04:52 PM
Rufus Rufus is offline
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 4,698
Rufus has much to be proud ofRufus has much to be proud ofRufus has much to be proud ofRufus has much to be proud ofRufus has much to be proud ofRufus has much to be proud of
I actually really like the current Playerworld Rules, they seem to be sensible and fair, but I don't know the last time they were actually really enforced.

We all know that Graal is short of Playerworld Administration right now, and that might not be such a bad thing in terms of the remaining lack of trust that people have, but in respects to Graal, it is. I know Ibonic was considdering hiring some new Playerworld Admins soon, I remember talking to him about it for a while, I can't remember what he was waiting for though, hmm..

Anyway, what I would personally really like to see more is PWA reviews. I used to always read through Malinko and Spark's reviews in the past, they are a good way of finding an unbiased view of a server (which isn't from a member of staff there), and they're a good introduction for the servers themselves.

One thing that confuses me is that we have the Playerworld rules, but I'm not actually sure what the rules are for Classic and Hosted servers, I've always wondered if they're under the same treatment. I totally agree with Crono, and I'd really like to see the playerlist cleaned up a bit more, if you're starting a new proposal, I think you should try out your new rules on every current Classic and Hosted server, to see if they actually do pass. There are too many servers these days, and like Crono said, quality is better then quantity.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loriel View Post
Seriously, you have ****-all for content and you're not exactly pulling in new developer talent, angling for prestigious titles should be your last concern.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-12-2006, 05:10 PM
Mykel Mykel is offline
:o
Mykel's Avatar
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Canton, Ohio.
Posts: 5,526
Mykel has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via AIM to Mykel Send a message via MSN to Mykel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufus View Post
Anyway, what I would personally really like to see more is PWA reviews.
Agreed. Reading old reviews back in the day by Jinx or Torankusu would motivate me to want to make a server. In-depth details about the server were always entertaining to read.

There was a detailed system that showed if a playerworld passed or failed. There were ratings for different parts of the server. Here is an example. Everyone had a better idea of why the server was put up. It also was a great way to get people interested in the server. I would love to see some sort of rendition of this come back.
__________________
(Married to Skyld)
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-12-2006, 05:19 PM
Crono Crono is offline
:pluffy:
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sweden
Posts: 20,000
Crono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond repute
Also with the lack of a PWA Admin PWA has become less efficient. For example under Spark new PWA were hired based on their applications which showed their qualifications, not by how close they were to Stefan.

Also with a PWA Admin the team would have someone to go to if they need help.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-12-2006, 05:24 PM
Rufus Rufus is offline
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 4,698
Rufus has much to be proud ofRufus has much to be proud ofRufus has much to be proud ofRufus has much to be proud ofRufus has much to be proud ofRufus has much to be proud of
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mykel View Post
Agreed. Reading old reviews back in the day by Jinx or Torankusu would motivate me to want to make a server. In-depth details about the server were always entertaining to read.

There was a detailed system that showed if a playerworld passed or failed. There were ratings for different parts of the server. Here is an example. Everyone had a better idea of why the server was put up. It also was a great way to get people interested in the server. I would love to see some sort of rendition of this come back.
Yeah, with more images though!

I also wish more posts such as these were made:

http://forums.graal2001.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=55868
http://forums.graal2001.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=56606

I PM'd Stefan a few days before this years Halloween to see if he was going to create one this year, obviously not. Posts like are just a bit of light relief and build more of a community in my opinion. It would be nice if we had more community based posts rather then the constant "EVIL MODERATION!!11!" ones, and the Playerworld Administration could do those.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loriel View Post
Seriously, you have ****-all for content and you're not exactly pulling in new developer talent, angling for prestigious titles should be your last concern.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-12-2006, 06:00 PM
Tyhm Tyhm is offline
Psionic Youth
Tyhm's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Babord, West Graal Deaths:1009 Kills:1
Posts: 5,635
Tyhm will become famous soon enough
1 - Under Construction
1a) I think there should be an UC tab. Some of us are interested in Under Construction servers - newbies oughtn't concern themselves.
1b) To get off the UC tab, I think Devil's right - it ought to be either voted to Publication, or it should need an hour worth of entertainment value, or it could be when the server's logged a certain ammount of hours of play value for a certain ammount of definitely-not-developers playing. Once you've got 10 or so players spending at least an hour a day on it, it's ready for review - that kinda thing.
1c) And until a Hubworld is put up, yeah, servers that run out of interest should get shunted back to UC until they're ready to represent Graal again.

2 - He Copied Me!
2a) I think there should be a framework for Originality. If you want to work on a Ninjas With Grenade Launchers server, and such a server already exists, you should be encouraged to work on that server and/or discouraged from making your own. Conversely, you should have to get your own playerbase rather than stealing from NWGL1 to pay NWGL2 - see also, Websites and Ads for Playerworlds.(not the best link, but the most specific).
2aI) How do we encourage people to work together? Well, the PWA can moderate disputes between the parties which want the Ninjas with Grenade Launchers to fight pirates and the parties which want the Ninjas with Grenade Launchers to fight aliens. If it's entirely impossible to have a server where they fight BOTH pirates AND aliens, someone has to decide which one it'll be - and if the guy who made all the levels is threatening to quit if it's not Pirates, and the owner's threatening to shut down the server sooner than give up on Aliens, this is a big deal. It's up to a neutral third party who only has Graal's best interest in mind to sit them both down, even out their powers (as currently the Owner fires the Levels Guy, keeps his stuff, prevents him from making a new server, then shuts down the server when he can't find a new Levels Guy, wasting months of development), and works out a compromise. (Space Pirates.)
2aII) How do we discourage people from making their own server? You can either let them do it (so the Levels Guy makes his Ninjas vs Pirates server and the Owner continues with his Ninjas vs Aliens) and force them to advertise and get their own players off teh intarweb instead of stealing each others' (maybe one advertises on scifi sites and one advertises on pirate sites, who knows?), OR you can just forbid anyone from starting up another server with Ninjas while there's already a Ninjas server. One Ninjas Server At A Time, and you all better get along - even if the parties involved are thinking Naruto or Ninja Turtles or Ninja Scroll or Soul Calibur or....

3 - He Deleted My Stuff!
3a) Maybe it's just me, but it seems a final decision is needed on whether these PWs are owned by Graal or owned by the PW's sponsor. If Graal owns 'em, Graal can usurp the interim manager - but said manager probably oughtn't be paying for the privelege. If the PW Owner owns his PW - can he be considered "breaking the rules" on what is effectively Private Property? Do the Java Ninjas come rampaging onto all Java apps and enforce their will? No, I think under the current methodology a PW Owner can't be in violation of any rules at all - he can be banned on every server but his own for violations elsewhere, he can be Persona Non Grata on the forums and even blacklisted as a hacker, yet his "site"/server is still hosted for as long as he's paying.
3b) So what happens when such a person decides to burn their server to the ground? Ought their level manager (or Former Level Manager) be allowed to resurrect it? I say yes - there's no conflict of originality, only a question of ownership between those two. The level manager shouldn't get access to the Last Backup of the server though, and shouldn't be handed it under any circumstances - if he has the levels he edited on his harddrive, he can rebuild and reconnect the world on his own, using only what he made himself. (Or she made herself, apologies for gender biases - but I'm in a hurry.)

4 - Open/Hiring Season
4a) There are two theories of management - the Zergling Rush theory and the Protoss theory. The Zergling Rush theory holds that in order for PWA to be effective, you need a lot of underlings, supported by a few regional managers - one to watch over every 10 or so - then an Uber Manager to watch over all of them (Houdiniman). The Protoss theory holds that you just need a handfull of really good managers, and everyone else can come to you. I like the latter (having suffered running my LAT like the former) - just sit back and wait. Have PW owners - and only owners, discard all email from other sources - petition for review. Review them when they petition, and review the existing PWs on a set schedule - though not one open to those being reviewed, you just throw together a calendar. "December 9th - check up on Classic. Next checkup: January 13." If someone complains that Classic sucks and should be reviewed, tell them they're already scheduled for a checkup sometime this week, and you'll get back to them by Sunday. Unless it's an emergency ("Lycia's drunk on RC!") they can wait, you are few and busy.
4b) Should PWA be responsible for coordinating PWs? I think no - you can't force 'em to, so why dedicate your time and energy to it? It's like teaching a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

5 - If not the PWA, then whom?
5a) I miss the old Global Scripting Admins and whatnot. We should get some more of them. They can handle encouraging the good PWs and fixing the bad.
5b) Even if I'm the only one that thinks it's a good idea, I still say there should be a global locker for things PWs don't mind sharing. Like snowflake scripts, and jack-o-lanterns. But then, I think all the servers should be connected at the Hubworld, so what do I know?
__________________
"Whatever," said Bean, "I was just glad to get out of the toilet."

"Power does not corrupt. Fear corrupts, perhaps the fear of a loss of power."- John Steinbeck
"I'm only acting retarded, what's your excuse?" queried the Gord.
- My pet, the Levelup Gnome

http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...&postcount=233

Last edited by Tyhm; 12-12-2006 at 07:21 PM..
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright (C) 1998-2019 Toonslab All Rights Reserved.