Managerial Changes

[Rufus]

Why don't these rules apply to Chris Vimes?

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Why don't these rules apply to Chris Vimes?

I don't see what you're getting at here. I'm not manager of anything, and when I was, I was fired for what I did by the PWA (and rightly so). Tig has even globally banned me in the past himself. This is all years ago and I've made considerable attempts to change since then.

I'm all for restoring Jer as manager, but I don't think this situation is similar at all to what I did (spawning items). The worst accusations aimed at Jer are that he was unprofessional.

I do give Tig respect for explaining the situation, though, and I've known him long enough to know that he doesn't make these kind of decisions on a whim.

[Crow]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

The worst accusations aimed at Jer are that he was unprofessional.

Indeed. Which seems to mostly apply to the forums. I still can't see that as a reason for firing him, considering the did such a remarkable job as a manager.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

I don't see what you're getting at here. I'm not manager of anything, and when I was, I was fired for what I did by the PWA (and rightly so). Tig has even globally banned me in the past himself. This is all years ago and I've made considerable attempts to change since then.

I'm all for restoring Jer as manager, but I don't think this situation is similar at all to what I did (spawning items). The worst accusations aimed at Jer are that he was unprofessional.

Both you and Seeya were banned for selling Era items for money on the 30th of April 2011. The ban was by Tig, yes. However, both you and Seeya were allowed to evade this ban on alternate accounts (Graal778257 and Graal753452) and were allowed to continue playing and WORKING on Graal Kingdoms. In addition to this the GK player known as Vinka, the guy that spammed the entire forum up with pornographic material and was going to be pursued with legal action from unixmad, has been working on the Graal Kingdoms iPhone port.

I think that this situation is very comparable because it shows just how hypocritical this administration is. You can paint Jerret like he's a 'sexually charged' deviant, but allow the real crimes to go unpunished because it benefits your own servers? No, that's not right at all.

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Rufus

You can paint Jerret like he's a 'sexually charged' deviant, but allow the real crimes to go unpunished because it benefits your own servers? No, that's not right at all.

I agree. My main issue with this decision (besides it being a slap in the face to Jer, who has put countless hours into Zodiac) is that they will never be able to find somebody who can do a better job of managing the server than he can.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

I agree. My main issue with this decision (besides it being a slap in the face to Jer, who has put countless hours into Zodiac) is that they will never be able to find somebody who can do a better job of managing the server than he can.

I agree with you too, but my main issue is that this is being drawn like it is about protecting the community and professionalism. Neither of those things seemed to come in to play when it is Graal Kingdoms that is brought up. Hell, the quote that Tig first posted was to Jerret when he posted ABOUT the corruption on Graal Kingdoms.

This is just bull****.

[Tigairius]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Both you and Seeya were banned for selling Era items for money on the 30th of April 2011. The ban was by Tig, yes. However, both you and Seeya were allowed to evade this ban on alternate accounts (Graal778257 and Graal753452) and were allowed to continue playing and WORKING on Graal Kingdoms. In addition to this the GK player known as Vinka, the guy that spammed the entire forum up with pornographic material and was going to be pursued with legal action from unixmad, has been working on the Graal Kingdoms iPhone port.

I think that this situation is very comparable because it shows just how hypocritical this administration is. You can paint Jerret like he's a 'sexually charged' deviant, but allow the real crimes to go unpunished because it benefits your own servers? No, that's not right at all.

Rufus, nobody is preventing Jerret from developing on Zodiac. For now, we ask that he only works on the dev server if he insists on working, but we are in no way telling him he's not allowed to develop for Zodiac, just as we did not actively stop Chris and Seeya from working when they were banned because they were behaving under their new accounts (which they paid for). It's not really comparable at all because Jerret was removed for entirely different reasons, and he was not banned from the game.

Furthermore, don't clump Vinka in as part of GK iPhone's staff. Vinka was fired from GK iPhone for his poor behavior on the forums (posting the porn, etc) and globally banned. We handle every situation on a case-by-case basis and we always try to be as fair as we can, obviously we can't make everyone happy, but you're really blowing it into more than it is. If this is going to turn into a thread about this, I'm going to close it.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

Rufus, nobody is preventing Jerret from developing on Zodiac. For now, we ask that he only works on the dev server if he insists on working, but we are in no way telling him he's not allowed to develop for Zodiac, just as we did not actively stop Chris and Seeya from working when they were banned because they were behaving under their new accounts (which they paid for). It's not really comparable at all because Jerret was removed for entirely different reasons, and he was not banned from the game.

Furthermore, don't clump Vinka in as part of GK iPhone's staff. Vinka was fired from GK iPhone for his poor behavior on the forums (posting the porn, etc) and globally banned. We handle every situation on a case-by-case basis and we always try to be as fair as we can, obviously we can't make everyone happy, but you're really blowing it into more than it is. If this is going to turn into a thread about this, I'm going to close it.

You sound like you're just making up rules now. Since when were people allowed to evade and work on servers when they're globally banned? According to the code of conduct, 'Users whose accounts have been terminated by any Graal Online administrator or LINUX Cyberjoueurs himself may not access the Graal Online system in any manner or for any reason without the express written permission of Cyberjoueur'. Moreover, if Jerret has a history of 'asking people sexually charged, highly inappropriate questions in public' and there has been 'a degree of harassment from him' then why would he be allowed to work on Zodiac at all? Do you realize how stupid that sounds?

I don't agree with the hypocritical nature that you seem to work in favor of yourself and the projects that you work on. You might think it is acceptable to make Jerret out to be some big bad that the PWA had to remove, but based on how you've allowed people (namely those within your circle of friends) to get away with much worse, I do not know how you expect anyone to take this seriously. I can only assume that you'll throw in that Jerret was a manager and thus is expected to have acted in a more professional way than what your buddies were doing. If he was actually doing his job though, which he clearly was, wouldn't it have better served THIS case to have left him banned from the forums?

[Imperialistic]

Rufus is on point, Tig you're just making up new rules as you go. (and enforcing them on non-friends)

[Tigairius]

Originally Posted by Rufus

You sound like you're just making up rules now. Since when were people allowed to evade and work on servers when they're globally banned? According to the code of conduct, 'Users whose accounts have been terminated by any Graal Online administrator or LINUX Cyberjoueurs himself may not access the Graal Online system in any manner or for any reason without the express written permission of Cyberjoueur'. Moreover, if Jerret has a history of 'asking people sexually charged, highly inappropriate questions in public' and there has been 'a degree of harassment from him' then why would he be allowed to work on Zodiac at all? Do you realize how stupid that sounds?

I don't agree with the hypocritical nature that you seem to work in favor of yourself and the projects that you work on. You might think it is acceptable to make Jerret out to be some big bad that the PWA had to remove, but based on how you've allowed people (namely those within your circle of friends) to get away with much worse, I do not know how you expect anyone to take this seriously. I can only assume that you'll throw in that Jerret was a manager and thus is expected to have acted in a more professional way than what your buddies were doing. If he was actually doing his job though, which he clearly was, wouldn't it have better served THIS case to have left him banned from the forums?

Originally Posted by Imperialistic

Rufus is on point, Tig you're just making up new rules as you go. (and enforcing them on non-friends)

Is that so? Because I don't recall ever referring to anything I said as a "rule" by which we abide. No, in fact, I explicitly said that we handle each situation on a case-by-case basis. If someone is banned, and wants to prove himself/herself, we welcome people to purchase new accounts and play on them until they misbehave again (unless we consider their presence a threat to the community in some way). We're allowing Jerret to stay as a developer on the -dev server only- where he will not be interacting with players, so I'm not sure how you see it's "stupid" of us to allow him to work on Zodiac privately. His presence on the dev server would only help Zodiac.

I work in favor of Graal and Graal's community, and every decision the PWA makes is in, what we consider to be, Graal's best interest. You may not agree, clearly you do not here, but you said it best yourself, Jerret was not behaving properly as a manager (on a very popular server), a position we hold to higher expectations, and we gave him ample warning before making this difficult decision.

Of course we weighed his value in the community as a scripter against his negative personality traits, but again, we unanimously agreed that he is not worth his trouble. Anyways, I feel that I've really exasperated this discussion more than I normally would, and there's really nothing more that can really be said by anyone. I think everyone has pretty much voiced their complaints and we've explained our stance.

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

I don't see what you're getting at here. I'm not manager of anything, and when I was, I was fired for what I did by the PWA (and rightly so). Tig has even globally banned me in the past himself. This is all years ago and I've made considerable attempts to change since then.

Fired and banned for selling items for USD > unbanned & reinstated as manager. I'm not putting you at blame for that, but it's definitely part of the Vimes circle-jerk that has been going around for some time now.