Leveling Style: "Proportional Realism"

[Vega001]

A while back, I decided to put an idea I had for a while into practice. Buildings on Graal are predominantly larger on the inside than their outside counterparts would suggest. A few places on Unholy Nation had images that would fade away revealing an inside that was the same size as the outside (without a level warp). Putting these two facts together, I whipped up an outside level and linked it with an inside made by Brutus. The result was two levels with an interesting level transition effect and perfect proportionality (1:1) between inside and outside. For now, I've decided to call this effect and proportionality "Proportional Realism."

The two levels, including all images used in each, are attached to this post.

I'd like anyone interested to take a look at them. To experience the effect, you must test the levels in the offline editor's Play feature (to my knowledge, I believe Gonstruct does not have this feature so you may to use the default level editor). To avoid getting stuck, open brutus_inside.nw, play, and exit the level to begin to view the effect.

The outside of the building was built directly off of a copy of the inside. A roof was placed to cover everything while the windows and walls remained the same. I detailed the rest of the outside according to my style.

A couple notes:
1. I don't, in any way, take credit for the inside level. Brutus made the inside level entirely. I have edited some NPC images with my own images, but that is the extent of my work on that level. Brutus deserves all credit for the inside.
2. A number of my own images are used in both levels. I think I included all images used in the zip folder along with the levels, but there is a chance I missed some. Let me know if any images do not display properly or at all.

I will welcome constructive feedback on this leveling style. Remember to reply or PM me if you have any questions or issues with the attached files.

[Lord Sephiroth]

It's a neat effect, not something that hasn't been attempted before, but unfortunately that kind of style leads to rather monstrous or ugly houses, much like the one in your level. (Not calling it ugly, just saying its practically half the level).

I forget my point, but I think the style has been attempted by every designer at one point or another, and at some point they realize that theres better options. Making the insides shaped the same as the outside, rather than the exact same size as it appears on the overworld, for example.

[James]

very neat concept although i think it's a little impractical. i guess if you have the time and can create graphics as you go it could work.

you'd need a very good leveler to pull it off effectively though.

[Dnegel]

Originally Posted by James

you'd need a very good leveler to pull it off effectively though.

I've tried it before, many times, and it aint that hard.

[Demisis_P2P]

The reason this particular transition works so well is because the house is in the exact same position in both the outside and inside levels. (i.e. in both levels the door is at 29,51).

If you were to try and recreate the same effect on an actual server some buildings would cross over a level link, and then in order to retain the same effect the inside would need to be split across levels as well. Which isn't really as feasible.

It is cool, but it'd be much cooler to just have the "inside view" on the overworld, and use an image that fades when you're near it for the roof of every single building.

[Imperialistic]

can someone post a screenshot?

[Elk]

We're at the point then...how big does an inside have to be? Think "realistic" aswell, if you try to do this :P

This here would do, IMO, and other houses can have more stages or go underground (take zodiacs OSL as example, it doesnt even have windows so it could aswell be underground, as it basicly IS (logically) since it's leading to a cave with other entrances), if more space is needed

[Dnegel]

Originally Posted by Imperialistic

can someone post a screenshot?

Inside-------------------------Outside

[fowlplay4]

The inside is pleasant but if I ever saw an outside like that I'd be expecting a much bigger inside. I'd rather not see realism like this though.

[Imperialistic]

Thank god that this proportional realism idea isn't in effect.

[adam]

For some reason, it just doesn't seem to work very well in practice, but i'm not wholly against it. Although, the transition, being able to walk into the building before the level changes, makes a huge difference for me. It's a lot better that way.

[xAndrewx]

i hate it o-o

[Vega001]

Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P

The reason this particular transition works so well is because the house is in the exact same position in both the outside and inside levels. (i.e. in both levels the door is at 29,51).

If you were to try and recreate the same effect on an actual server some buildings would cross over a level link, and then in order to retain the same effect the inside would need to be split across levels as well. Which isn't really as feasible.

It is cool, but it'd be much cooler to just have the "inside view" on the overworld, and use an image that fades when you're near it for the roof of every single building.

Yeah I forgot to mention that the two "buildings" and the doors are in the same location. If I were to continue doing this on a large-scale basis, I would ensure insides and outsides were aligned as such.

Obviously the outside view of the building is humongous. Given our expectations with levels on Graal, I don't think it's easy for us to expect an inside sized the way it is for such a large outside.

I think Elk is on the ball though. Most inside levels need not have a ton of space. Important levels like an OSL, an Events House, Sparring House, etc. are meant to hold large numbers of players so it's logical to make these buildings with large insides and thus large outsides. For other buildings like playerhouses or shops, I don't think you need a whole lot of room. This means the insides and outsides could be smaller.

Even so, I wouldn't attempt using this idea for large-scale leveling generally anywhere except a brand new server that could adopt it from the beginning.

[DustyPorViva]

I wouldn't think about using it at all. There's a reason you rarely see this implemented in any games(ESPECIALLY 2D games). It might be cool here and there to see, but I think there are more important things to focus such effort on, especially when you consider in the gaming world, gamers have come to terms with the fact that unrealistic things happen.

[Dnegel]

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

The inside is pleasant but if I ever saw an outside like that I'd be expecting a much bigger inside. I'd rather not see realism like this though.

I agree with you there, the inside is pretty cool, but the outside could need a little fix up'.

Two more floors maybe, and a balcony or something like that.

[Darklux]

Originally Posted by Dnegel

Inside-------------------------Outside
Attachment 51157 Attachment 51158

You should really work on the outside. You still have to bring proof that the outside can look good with a cool inside

[Cubical]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

I wouldn't think about using it at all. There's a reason you rarely see this implemented in any games(ESPECIALLY 2D games). It might be cool here and there to see, but I think there are more important things to focus such effort on, especially when you consider in the gaming world, gamers have come to terms with the fact that unrealistic things happen.

I wouldn't mind seeing it implemented in like a cave system using a huge mountain or something. I think that might be pretty cool.

[Luda]

Originally Posted by Elk

We're at the point then...how big does an inside have to be? Think "realistic" aswell, if you try to do this :P

This here would do, IMO, and other houses can have more stages or go underground (take zodiacs OSL as example, it doesnt even have windows so it could aswell be underground, as it basicly IS (logically) since it's leading to a cave with other entrances), if more space is needed

I like the way this one is set up, could obviously look better though.

[Elk]

Originally Posted by Luda

I like the way this one is set up, could obviously look better though.

Yeah its a quick 10 min level

[nullify]

It'd work a lot better if the exterior was shaped closely to the interior. Just scaled down.

[Vega001]

I appreciate all the feedback, thanks

[Shaun]

I can't stand indoor levels like that. They're nonsense.

[kia345]

I'd like it if it didn't mean your houses would look retarded from the outside. Because the one in the first post is disgusting.

But if you're going to use it to segue into smaller, neater houses, then more power to you.

[Spark910]

Thinking of my own actual house, it seems small from the outside but is actually quite big (granted I'm not looking at it from the same point of view as in Graal), but in light of the fact buildings generally can be deceptive as to space and size I don't think it's a huge issue to require 1:1 at least.

I remember Haunter (?) trying this on Rudora and ensuring that at least a house that had two levels on the outside had two on the inside as well - this sort of realism is perhaps better and a general awareness of not having a tiny outside and huge inside, but I think 1:1 could result in some less than attractive levels unless house sizes as a whole were made small as standard, as large outsides aren't too nice.

[DustyPorViva]

So my planned playerhouse being a cardboard box on the outside and a huge mansion on the inside is not a very good idea?

[LoneAngelIbesu]

Originally Posted by kia345

Because the one in the first post is disgusting.

It'd probably be better if the roof was utilized, or if some other stories and a balcony were added. But I think the shape is the biggest problem. When was the last time anybody saw a house shaped like that?

[Aknts]

I like the inside level.

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

So my planned playerhouse being a cardboard box on the outside and a huge mansion on the inside is not a very good idea?

It is a good idea, as long as you have stairs immediately going down when you get inside the box.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Aknts

It is a good idea, as long as you have stairs immediately going down when you get inside the box.

Of course not. That would be just silly.

[Aknts]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Of course not. That would be just silly.

Whoops I meant 'stairs going up'.

[LordOfPi13]

I might try this but with a fading roof XD If I added stairs it would be interesting o_O I would also make a smaller house

[Crono]

It's a good concept but it just begs the question: why have the outside looking so retarded in the first place?