A plea to Stefan

[DustyPorViva]

I know the official level editor is pretty much getting no support... and you know what, that's NOT THAT BAD. Whatever. Someone has stepped up -- Gonstruct. It has layers, gmap support now, and its pretty freaking awesome.

But there is one problem, Stefan. Official level editor is, and will always be... the official editor. That means it will probably always have a larger userbase than an almost unknown editor. Also, people may just prefer using it over Gonstruct. That's cool.

The major problem is that while Gonstruct and Graal itself have stepped up to support features like layers and dynamically sized levels/layers, the official editor has not. Now that would normally not be a problem, but the official editor doesn't just not support it, it breaks any levels that use it. It will delete layer data over 0, and fill in the tiles of any levels that do not = 64x64 tiles in size. That means someone unaware(or even just forgetful) could open a level in the official editor just to fix a tiny tile error, or fix a script... and ruin the whole level.

I repeat, official level editor ruins levels with layers. Can this be fixed? Just this one thing? So servers can start to move on without fear of levels being destroyed?

[zephirot]

Just make Gonstruct the official editor, less work for you more benefits for us.

[LoneAngelIbesu]

We can make levels that aren't 64x64 tiles? I never knew that!

Is Gonstruct 'completed' enough to fully replace the default level editor? I tinkered with it when Fry first advertised it; don't know how much has been added/updated.

[fowlplay4]

Inb4 we're going scripted/online version because it'll be more accessible over multi-platforms with new client.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

Inb4 we're going scripted/online version because it'll be more accessible over multi-platforms with new client.

It will STILL be a problem, though. Online editors will also support layers... thus the same problem arises.

It'll be way harder to maintain some sort of moderation of the official editor usage that it would be for the official editor to just not break levels.

[adam]

I see, yes, the official editor should not break layers. Even online editor will have this problem so it isn't just about Gonstruct.

[Inverness]

This is a travesty!

[Demisis_P2P]

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

Inb4 we're going scripted/online version because it'll be more accessible over multi-platforms with new client.

Which is a total ****ing load of bull**** and it makes me hate Stefan every time he spews that crock of ****.

A scripted/online level editor would be accessible to what? The 1% of the playerbase who have access to a server? Way more accessible.

Windows still has a 90% market share. Assuming the proportion of players who are developers remains the same across operating systems, scripted tools would only potentially increase the number of developers by 10% maximum. But in the process you're shutting out hundreds of potential developers on the Windows platform by adding the hurdle of requiring access to a server.

[fowlplay4]

Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P

A scripted/online level editor would be accessible to what? The 1% of the playerbase who have access to a server? Way more accessible.

I imagine they could easily let anyone run it from the Login server.

[Crono]

online/scripted editor will always be inferior z_z

[salesman]

Ideally the tools should be built into the client and accessible offline, in my opinion. i.e. opening Graal leads to buttons to use the dev tools or "Play Online!". That way, we'd really be advertising Graal as a dev platform where developers can easily create work and release it to players. That would be very enticing to aspiring developers.

Having to jump through hoops and realizing all of the tools are out-dated is a real turn off. Perfect example of what I'm talking about, and this guy has a history with Graal. Good luck interesting someone who has never played before.

Anyways, I'll get back on topic. Regardless of whether or not the external tools will get some real attention, Stefan should at least fix small problems such as this one.

[cbk1994]

I haven't used Gonstruct but if it's as good as everyone says it is, I fully support this.

[TSAdmin]

I've used Gonstruct before, but for some reason the latest release crashes whenever I go to open a "New" level or "Load" an existing one, so I uninstalled it. I wasn't missing any components though. I like what Sale's said though.

[Sky]

I like taking long trips and building levels on the road. If the tools were made online only then I'd be screwed.

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by salesman

Ideally the tools should be built into the client and accessible offline, in my opinion. i.e. opening Graal leads to buttons to use the dev tools or "Play Online!". That way, we'd really be advertising Graal as a dev platform where developers can easily create work and release it to players. That would be very enticing to aspiring developers.

Having to jump through hoops and realizing all of the tools are out-dated is a real turn off. Perfect example of what I'm talking about, and this guy has a history with Graal. Good luck interesting someone who has never played before.

Anyways, I'll get back on topic. Regardless of whether or not the external tools will get some real attention, Stefan should at least fix small problems such as this one.

The problem I see is that it's really hard to advertise a development platform (or even an MMO). I would never have downloaded Graal based on any of the websites, and certainly never have thought "I can learn to make a game here!".

They could just go the Evony route and put breasts everywhere.

[fowlplay4]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

They could just go the Evony route and put breasts everywhere.

I support this, quick someone work on the prototype ads.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

They could just go the Evony route and put breasts everywhere.

so tempted to list some graalians perfect for the role based on past experiences LOL

[Loriel]

Originally Posted by Crono

so tempted to list some graalians perfect for the role based on past experiences LOL

*blushes*

[Unkownsoldier]

Lmaoo, soo why don't you guys just develop your own version of Graal, with a different name, and then you can do what you want :]

[Vima]

I don't like Gonstruct, I prefer Graal Editor.

[cyan3]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

They could just go the Evony route and put breasts everywhere.

lol was funny seeing the old Evony ads but I think they have stopped using breasts for their more recent ads.

[DarkReaper0]

Originally Posted by cyan3

lol was funny seeing the old Evony ads but I think they have stopped using breasts for their more recent ads.

Does that mean what I think it means....

[cyan3]

Originally Posted by DarkReaper0

Does that mean what I think it means....

Probably not, I meant that it was funny that they attempted to use such as thing for advertising in the first place.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by zephirot

Just make Gonstruct the official editor, less work for you more benefits for us.

Best idea in this whole thread.


Honestly, I don't foresee any changes coming to the editor. I know that sounds a bit pessimistic, but if Gonstruct became the official editor, the community would still have access to its source files so we can make our own improvements on it. This would be a huge step forward, I think, because as Crono said, the fabled 'Online Editor' will never match up in power or practicality.

In addition to this, other scripters have made editors which actually are practical online, such as a particle editor, a setshape2 editor, and a gani editor. (Which is hopefully better than Graalshop.) Such tools speed up development substantially, and I would go so far as to say that just the right collection of them could lower average server production time by 10-20% if used properly.


Replacing Graaleditor with Gonstruct builds would be more beneficial for the sole reason that the community could improve it, and we wouldn't need to wait for a single major update. As long as the releases are double-checked, they could be put out much more frequently, and developers would be able to get more out of the program. Just something to think about.

[Loriel]

Originally Posted by Draenin

the community would still have access to its source files so we can make our own improvements on it.

The community does not seem really interested in that right now ~\(o_O)/~

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by Loriel

The community does not seem really interested in that right now ~\(o_O)/~

Mallard seemed kind of interested, but I think he might be doing his own independent projects right about now.