GS2? In my editor?

[DustyPorViva]

Heh, Stefan already posted he won't update ANY of the offline tools... YAY!

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Heh, Stefan already posted he won't update ANY of the offline tools... YAY!

Which is unfortunate, because the online tools aren't too great. The Mac RC/Level editor is very slow. Part of the reason I quit dev was the lousy tools for it. I was going to make an offline Mac level editor a while back, but decided it wasn't worth my time (hey, it's not my company, and I won't be paid for it).
If I was getting money for it, then that would be a different story.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

Which is unfortunate, because the online tools aren't too great. The Mac RC/Level editor is very slow. Part of the reason I quit dev was the lousy tools for it. I was going to make an offline Mac level editor a while back, but decided it wasn't worth my time (hey, it's not my company, and I won't be paid for it).
If I was getting money for it, then that would be a different story.

Ya, it's a dumb move but he has so much confidence in the online tools. We've been trying to get him to change his mind for a while :/

[Skyld]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Ya, it's a dumb move but he has so much confidence in the online tools.

As do I. Why? Because it means that we can provide immediate updates to every client on Graal, on every platform, at the same time. That's an incredible bonus because it means that three separate sets of tools aren't having to be released and updated every time a new feature is added. That would be costly in terms of developer time and you would then see less other updates.

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

The Mac RC(/Level editor) is very slow.

How exactly is it slow? I'm guessing it has something to do with being ran on an Intel Mac, since it is very fast for me on PowerPC.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Skyld

As do I. Why? Because it means that we can provide immediate updates to every client on Graal, on every platform, at the same time. That's an incredible bonus because it means that three separate sets of tools aren't having to be released and updated every time a new feature is added. That would be costly in terms of developer time and you would then see less other updates.

I don't disagree in the power of the online tools, but I see NO reason to abandon the offline tools. Stefan's not the one developing online tools, so it's not like this would spread his workload anymore than it did beforehand. He could have simply went on updating the offline tools while people like you worked on the online ones.

As for less updates? It's not like there are many updates in the first place... if fewer updates meant an updated editor, dammit, I'll take it.

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by Skyld

As do I. Why? Because it means that we can provide immediate updates to every client on Graal, on every platform, at the same time. That's an incredible bonus because it means that three separate sets of tools aren't having to be released and updated every time a new feature is added. That would be costly in terms of developer time and you would then see less other updates.

Which would be great if they ran at the speed as offline native apps, and didn't require an account.
The offline apps are still needed, until people can edit levels and gs2 without owning a server online.

How exactly is it slow? I'm guessing it has something to do with being ran on an Intel Mac, since it is very fast for me on PowerPC.

I haven't used it in a while, but when I first did, it was far more limited than the PC version, and was very unresponsive. The online tools bite because they require a good internet connection, and for full speed, a PowerPC Mac. Offline editing is a huge necessity. I used to do it when I wasn't able to connect (I have a very slow internet connection at school).
We need offline tools.
Benefits of online tools: Updates for all platforms at once
Benefits of offline tools: No need for a connection, account, or server ownership.

So few people own a server and are able to make use of the online tools, which pale in comparison to the speed and features of the offline tools.

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Skyld

How exactly is it slow? I'm guessing it has something to do with being ran on an Intel Mac, since it is very fast for me on PowerPC.

Even on an Intel Mac with the new Intel version of Graal, the tools are very unresponsive.

[Skyld]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

Even on an Intel Mac with the new Intel version of Graal, the tools are very unresponsive.

Can you define 'unresponsive' in this case?

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Skyld

Can you define 'unresponsive' in this case?

When you hit a key, it takes like a third of a second to show up, if you type too fast, they can actually get out of order somehow, etc.

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

Even on an Intel Mac with the new Intel version of Graal, the tools are very unresponsive.

I had suspected as much. Now imagine if you were on a slow network. It's even worse.
The scripted stuff is a cheap way out of the problem: let the scripters make it for free, and then we can say we're done with it.
The way things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if there's an iPhone level editor before a Mac one (and yes, there would be no sense in that).

Unresponsive = Click a button, wait 10 seconds for any response. Or place a tile, wait 20 seconds for it to appear. And that happened on a decent connection as well.
Whereas offline: click a button and it's doe in an instant, or with the windows rc, it's just as quick as the server can respond.


For example, as a Mac user with both a fast PPC machine and a new Intel machine, who also knows gs2 and some objc and cocoa, you'd think I'd make a great tester for the Intel machine and RC. But because I don't own a server, I can't.

That's what's wrong with the system